I don't care the White House claims, until you don't get rid of all your nukes, we will keep building them. If you wanted, you could get rid of them in a year.
No, we 'couldn't get rid of them in a year'. There are
thousands of nukes held by both Russia and the US. Each time they're dismantled, 'the other side' has to verify so everyone is on the up and up. It took years to build them, and it's going to take years to get rid of them. I cannot possibly imagine, for a country that is not wanting to push 'agenda by nuke', why any country, much less a poor country like Pakistan, would waste one cent on developing a nuclear weapon. It screams: Total Stupidity.
Regarding tactical nukes, the unanimous opinion on this forum is that if Pakistan were to use tactical nukes against American military targets in the region, America would respond with a nuclear holocaust. How can that be right?
A Pakistan with any type of Leadership that had any type of sanity would never use tactical nukes against anyone, except maybe India, and as a retalitory response at that. Because if they did, they know just how F'ing doomed they'd be. I really don't think you truly get just how 'kid gloves' the US has fought the WoT so far. Yes, on a micro scale, unintentionally against civilians and purposefully against combatants, the US appears to be using massive and overwhelming force...from their view we're using our Super in Superpower. From a macro view, one which would be used if what you're advocating were to come true, the US so far is using light conventional weapons. No one, not even during the start of the Iraq liberation, has really seen the US go 'all out' - even conventionally - against a country. The crazy thing is the US wouldn't even need to use nukes, conventional munitions alone would do the job. And so your solution is to build nukes, that will never be used, to combat something you have no hope - even with the nukes - of combating anyways. Meanwhile, while you spend hundreds of Millions (or even Billions) on aquiring these useless nukes, your people live in sh1t. Again, brilliance.
To prevent this response, we need ICBMs. tactical nuclear weapons against military targets in times of war are within the rules of engagement. I'm basing my opinion on what I read on these forums. They are advocating wiping this "shithole" from the face of the Earth; nukes are the only option.
Again, I really don't even think you grasp the seriousness of what you're implying here. If your mythical ICBM were actually launched, actually worked as intended, actually was not stopped sufficiently, what then? You've launched your one or handful of ICBM's. You know, as every nuclear country does, that launching nukes against another country invites that country to in tern launch their nukes against you: Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD). Since your nukes, at best, could only seriously harm the US - not cripple it, not destroy it, simply seriously harm it - your solution to prevent your onslaught is what? The US then has 1500 or so nukes aimed back at you, the smallest of which is likely multiples better than your best, and infinitely more reliable and accurate...and you have no way to intercept them. You think Russia or China, the only two powers that would have a hope of stopping our response, are going to come to your aid after you nuke, well, nuke anything? They're going to call the POTUS up, urge restraint, and then say, "...but we will not take action, except to urge restraint, regardless of how you respond. This is an outrage. Later." You'd be an international pariah even more so than you are now, magnitudes more than you are now. Lets stop with the 'nuke peen' talk TGB...its silly, it'll never happen (well, at least you better pray it never happens), so it's a non-starter.
Do you believe your media/government that our nukes are unsafe? It's the same people who lied about Iraq's WMDs. Our nuclear assets are safe.
I believe they're about as safe as you can make them at this time. Which means what? Do you have all the built in safeguards that ours have designed in? I truly hope so, but, I really doubt it. That makes them, very likely, less safe. Do you have a non-fundi population and a stable region like we have? Not in any way. Do you have a military in control that isn't corrupt through and through, and doesn't have fundi influence, like ours? Well, we're all really hoping so TGB, but I'd seriously doubt it. Us in The Evil West certainly hope our concerns are proved wrong if you all ever do have a little rebellion over there, I'm sure India does as well.
Yet speaking about wiping Iran/Pakistan off the map is acceptable but if anyone talks the same about Israel, he is a terrorist.
It's not that it's acceptable, it's that Adinnerjacket used that phrase in respect to Israel, so now it gets used 'tonque in cheek' (mostly) describing an overwhelming military response by US; I think pretty much Everyone over here realizes we're never going to use our nukes against any of you countries in that region - we simply don't need to given our conventional forces makeup. P.S. While Israel is an ally, don't assume that some super large % of the US/West has some inate love for Israel: We don't. We may
prefer Israel over Pakistan, but that doesn't mean we're all jihadi over Israel here. As far as talking the same about Israel, the reason for that is, well, because your fundi religion, and Dinner Jacket in particular, have a large number of terrorists, and, well, they go on Israel benders despite Israel not being their problem (this gets back to what I said earlier about you all being brainwashed...it's another control mechanism they brainwash into you. Instead of wondering why your religious fundi Leader is railing on the West - and hence brainswashing you - for giving your Leadership Billions of $$$$ to be used for you that they instead stash in their own personal accounts (thereby F'ing you directly, and us indirectly), the next words out of their mouth are Evil Jews and your eyes glaze over about a problem that has nothing to do with you at all.....and the brainwashing continues). Sorry for the run on sentence, but, it's a perfect example of why you all are not Progressing. You have paranoia about Israel for a reason (it's been brainwashed into you and everyone around you), and rather than coming to that realization, you actually try and use it as a valid comparison.
Firstly, that you have a better message is debatable.
Help us stop POS murders and rapists fundi's who like to kill because it gives them something to do is a debatable message? Setup a stable and self-representative government, that's not corrupt, is a debatable message? Just WTF is there to debate there????
Your government doesn't have any credibility. You send spies who collaborate with terrorist organizations, you lie about WMDs and invade sovereign country--the means to reach what end? Money.
Well TGB, if the US doesn't have any credibility, then really, who does? Fundi leaders over there? Corrupt to the core politicians over there?
Russia? Haha, Ok, that one was a joke. The point is, all nations act in their best interest, including the US. The point you're missing here is, the US really doesn't ask for much - not really. We're not there to make Afghanistan - or Iraq - the 51st and 52nd US state. We're not there to take your women and kids back with us. We're not there to just kill indescriminantly (like your super nice Russia you seem to trust is absolutely known, and expected by All, to do). We really would like to accomplish our objectives (eradicate Taliban with absolute minimum civilian casualties, stable non-corrupt self-representative government in Afghanistan), and then, GTFO. OBL, as well as improved social progress on women and animals, would be icing on the cake in that deal, but we'd settle for those top two. That sounds bad to you?
As far as "invading" Iraq, Saddam decided he wanted to roll those dice, and, his bluff got called (unlike the other 13 times he laughed in the face of the UN, while the UN took it like the pussies they are). The Iraqi's, after killing themselves by the boatload, finally decided maybe they'd try this representative government thing. Since they've only been at it (in a relatively stable environment) for like, 3 years now, and after 30+ years of repression (which breeds distrust and bottled up emotion), I think they're doing pretty d@mn good so far. Granted, they've still got the fundi problem, and the uneducated problem, but, maybe, soon, they'll start moving forward a little bit more. The thing is, for all the 'look at what the US did to Iraq', the Iraqi's as a whole are worlds better
as a country than they were under Saddam - and they won't have to go through the experience of Saddam's lovely sons.
The Iraqi's will get to chose,
for themselves, which direction they go. Really terrible the situation the US put them in huh? God, we're such monsters for letting them rule themselves....
If you think we don't want to get rid of our terrorist elements, you are an idiot. We are suffering the most. You aren't helping us; you are just making things worse by lying and spying.
I think there are many of you who do want them gone, however, you've got way too much terrorist sympathy in your ranks to get the job done properly. Which makes your efforts, while sometimes effective, untrustworthy. The shit we really know about what you all are doing - and more importantly, not doing - never makes it to the papers (except when POS's leak it). Given there have been multiple reports from people who don't need to lie, about Pakistani's not taking care of business on their side of the border, I'll go with we're helping you as much as we can without just breaking across the border and trying to full out do it ourselves. So we resort to telling lies when we need to (because telling the truth would be decidedly worse), and of course spying, because god knows, there is no way we could trust ISI...so if we can't trust you all, and we need real intel, where does that leave us? Well TGB, that leaves us having to go be spies, when needed...
Then the American slogan should read "Freedom, justice liberty--only for if you are American" ... But the genius of Orwell said it decades ago-- "some are born more equal than others." You claim the world has become smaller. I agree--America is the spoilt elite class who really only care for themselves.
There is also an expression that goes, You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. The US/West has been trying for a decade now to drag your region forward, but the problem is, you all are so fundi, and so corrupt, and so distrustful (somewhat understandable given how much corruption you all have), that it really is an uphill battle. My point btw was that because the world is smaller, your fundi - and the tools of that trade - problem became not just your problem, but now it becomes ours. Ignoring it like we did with the Cole, just gets us a 9/11. We can't ignore it any longer, your non-progress has now impacted us. We're now forced to 'be the @sshole' and drag you kicking and screaming forward like a little whining kid. Only it turns out that Mom and Dad really did know what was best, and that eating your vegetables was actually good for you.
Blame everything on corruption...
As far as education is concerned... it's not as bad as what they tell you there. We have more than 50% literacy--which goes up to 80% in the Urban areas.
Your entire culture is corrupted. Look, you can't even name a price for something and have it just be the price, your whole culture is setup to haggle because no one inately trusts someone not to rip them off. I'm not sure what you consider literacy, but, you have reporters from your own link not even being able to write an article without simple lack of clear bias and sensationalism. You have people in that region who actually buy "The Great Satan" speeches, that actually buy that Israel puts killer sharks in the water: Do you have any idea the level of retardation The Rest of The World views that? While I will absolutely will admit we have total dumbf*ck loons here (both on the left and right), from what I've seen of youtube and other media videos, you have some
really F'ing dumb people there. Worse, it's just not some
one dumb@ss, it's sometimes a whole town. How do you explain a whole town digging a whole, burying a woman up to her head, and then throwing rocks into her face? What total level of stupidity do you have to be at to
ever even
think of doing such a thing?? We were there here a while ago, it was called the Salem Witch Trials. Read up on it. That's you guys now.
We must safeguard are values against the violent "message" of America and American capitalism.
Yes! Quick! Safeguard yourselves against not being corrupt, about fairness for all, about not killing or cheating your neighbor, about not abusing your wife or an animal, quick!!! Don't get caught up in the "message" of Evil America!!! Keep doing it your way, it's working great!!!
Chuck
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