George Zimmerman trial

[Fern]

I guess you're referring to this?



In which case I stand by my statement that the law does not allow you to attack someone and then shoot them when they beat your ass. I'll amend it to include unless you have a lawful reason to attack the person, which isn't relevant here.

No. This:

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.--The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

http://www.self-defender.net/law2.htm

So, you can start the fight and still legally claim self defense if you meet the exception under Section(s) 2(a) or (b).

Fern

 

[mugs]

No. This:



http://www.self-defender.net/law2.htm

So, you can start the fight and still legally claim self defense if you meet the exception under Section(s) 2(a) or (b).

Fern

Ok, but what I said was this:

Either way the stand your ground law is not relevant. It doesn't allow you to start an altercation and then shoot someone when you're getting beat up.

What you linked predates the stand your ground law. The point I was making is that everyone is bringing up the stand your ground law with this story, but I'm not seeing any way Zimmerman's actions would be protected by the stand your ground law but wouldn't have been protected prior to the stand your ground law.

 

[Fern]

Ok, but what I said was this:

Either way the stand your ground law is not relevant. It doesn't allow you to start an altercation and then shoot someone when you're getting beat up.

What you linked predates the stand your ground law.

Nope, that's the current FL SYG law. Wiki has it too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law#Florida

In addition, my state (NC) just adopted SYG in Dec 2011 and it's almost completely identical.

The point I was making is that everyone is bringing up the stand your ground law with this story, but I'm not seeing any way Zimmerman's actions would be protected by the stand your ground law but wouldn't have been protected prior to the stand your ground law.

I agree (mostly).

The only way the SYG could possibly apply is if Zimmerman provoked the fight. The self defense law before SYG absolutely rules out a valid claim of self defense for anyone provoking the fight. You start it and begin losing? Tough cookies, you forfeited your right to self defense once you started it no matter badly you're getting your azz kicked.

SYG allows self defense even in you provoked it (as long as you meet one of the two exceptions). So, if Zimmerman provoked it and started getting his azz kicked SYG would help him out (it would apply). But he's claiming he didn't start it. Also, according to his story he had zero opportunity to retreat. Accordingly, the old self defense law (retreat) works for him.

So I agree, assuming his story is correct (or can't be disproven) the SYG rules aren't relevant.

(Note that the SYG part that lets you provoke a fight but still later claim self defense was intended for women who had started some shizz with their husband/boyfriend then started getting beaten badly. Under the old rules self defense wasn't available if they ended up killing their husband/boyfriend because they absolutely had to. Either that or get killed.

Looks to me like the problem is that they wrote the law too broadly. They never intended it for two guys who got in a fight.)

Fern

 

[brainhulk]

the trial should be dismissed. new pictures of zimmerman's bloodied head:

http://gma.yahoo.com/warning-graphi...immermans-050145810--abc-news-topstories.html

 

[Rage187]

I agree that it should be thrown out. From the witnesses and the pictures, his whole story checks out.

 

[tboo]

I agree that it should be thrown out. From the witnesses and the pictures, his whole story checks out.

+2

 

[highland145]

the trial should be dismissed. new pictures of zimmerman's bloodied head:

http://gma.yahoo.com/warning-graphi...immermans-050145810--abc-news-topstories.html

Oh, snap.

 

[mugs]

Nope, that's the current FL SYG law. Wiki has it too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law#Florida

In addition, my state (NC) just adopted SYG in Dec 2011 and it's almost completely identical.

The stand your ground law passed in 2005 added section 776.013 to what you posted. The section you cited existed prior to that.

 

[BrokenVisage]

Zim gets bond.

 

[DrunkenSano]

No reason why he shouldn't get bond.

 

[BoberFett]

George Zimmerman will be found guilty of offering average quality men's suits at reasonable prices. I guarantee it.

 

[waggy]

My personal feeling: it'll be like the OJ trial - high publicity when in reality with people glued to their televisions, when in reality, people really should get a life and do something better than sit on their ass watching a court case on television. As far as the actual verdict - I haven't a clue, because I don't care enough to have actually waded through news story after news story, and 1000's of posts in the thread in P&N.

However, in the the civil trial for wrongful death - he'll lose big time, having instigated the whole thing. I'd guess a multi-million dollar settlement, unless Florida has some sort of self defense thing that means you can't sue. In which case, I think he would have to be found "innocent" rather than "not guilty" - but IANAL.


And as soon as this poll gets off topic, it'll be locked, just like the last thread that got woefully

/this

I am willing to bet he gets off. the law is so badly written. I am still surprised they even charged him. Unless they have something huge they are hiding i can't see him losing.

I also think there will be a civil suit and he will lose that big time.

 

[corwin]

I also think there will be a civil suit and he will lose that big time.

You do know that there are provisions in the law to prevent a civil trial right?

 

[DrunkenSano]

It's not even about the law being written badly, there is no solid evidence so far for a full conviction unless the Prosecution is hiding something. But if they were, they would've brought it out during the bail hearing.

 

[pelov]

the trial should be dismissed. new pictures of zimmerman's bloodied head:

http://gma.yahoo.com/warning-graphi...immermans-050145810--abc-news-topstories.html

... and?

The way I see it is that it ultimately boils down to who provoked the encounter. It's going to be difficult to prove the kid did it when Zimmerman was the one who called the cops then disobeyed the person on the phone and went to confront him.

 

[0roo0roo]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57437482/despite-evidence-no-answers-in-martin-shooting/

pic released in feb, how is this the first i've seen of it..

 

[QueBert]

wounds to the back of the head typically bleed a lot, if those are seriously considered "potential life threatening" wounds it's a fucking miracle I'm still alive.

 

[chimaxi83]

Voted for innocent.

 

[sixone]

Now that actual facts are coming out, I'd bet it won't go to trial. The charges seem more and more baseless every day.

 

[kaerflog]

I agree that he probably will not be found guilty but the fact remains that he should have not gotten out of the car.
The police told him NOT to get out of the car.

 

[amdhunter]

Hahaha, my wish is coming true. I hope Zimmerman gets off. This country will freaking BURN.

 

[waggy]

... and?

The way I see it is that it ultimately boils down to who provoked the encounter. It's going to be difficult to prove the kid did it when Zimmerman was the one who called the cops then disobeyed the person on the phone and went to confront him.

that don't matter.

All Z has to do is say "i feared for my life" he is going to get off. i doubt it even goes to trail.

 

[amdhunter]

that don't matter.

All Z has to do is say "i feared for my life" he is going to get off. i doubt it even goes to trail.

I fear for my life every time I see a cop. I guess I am going to take a trip to Florida and pop one of them in the head.

 

[waggy]

I fear for my life every time I see a cop. I guess I am going to take a trip to Florida and pop one of them in the head.

yeah you go ahead and try it.. let us know how it works.

 

[clamum]

I absolutely hope he doesn't get found guilty and do think that he'll probably get off though.

It's hilarious all of these fucking liberal morons the day after the shooting, tweeting and posting on Facebook "WE WANT JUSTICE!". Hahahahaha! Your version of "justice" is wanting to see the guy behind bars before all the facts are made public. Fucking morons.