George Zimmerman trial

[corwin]

Yes but there is no debate on whether or not he killed someone. It's a much more complicated scenario than a simple murder trial

Of course, there's a lot we don't know about what happened and what evidence there is...but in any case it's still innocent until proven guilty...even though in this case he's been tried and convicted in the media already in a court they still have to prove he's guilty and not the other way around, that's just the way it works for better or worse

SC's law is explicit (castle law). If it applies, the shooter can never be sued civilly

Similar provisions in the Florida SYG law but nobody is sure it will even apply to this case...personally I think he has a case for self defense but should be civilly liable for getting in the situation to begin with...but IANAL

 

[marvdmartian]

Your poll options are too limited. Why? Because even if he's found not guilty of 2nd degree murder, the jury can still find him guilty of manslaughter, which you don't address in your poll.

Personally, I'd have made the poll results more like this:
1. guilty of 2nd degree murder
2. guilty of manslaughter
3. guilty of other (less serious) charges (i.e.-assault with a deadly weapon, etc)
4. not guilty on all counts, stand by for the rioting
5. not guilty on all counts, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton call for peaceful demonstrations, Treyvon Martin's family sues Zimmerman in civil court and ruins his life anyways.

 

[dougp]

Your poll options are too limited. Why? Because even if he's found not guilty of 2nd degree murder, the jury can still find him guilty of manslaughter, which you don't address in your poll.

Personally, I'd have made the poll results more like this:
1. guilty of 2nd degree murder
2. guilty of manslaughter
3. guilty of other (less serious) charges (i.e.-assault with a deadly weapon, etc)
4. not guilty on all counts, stand by for the rioting
5. not guilty on all counts, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton call for peaceful demonstrations, Treyvon Martin's family sues Zimmerman in civil court and ruins his life anyways.

Was he charged with manslaughter? A jury can only convict if there are charges being pressed. They cannot downgrade the charges of 2nd degree murder TO manslaughter. Just like the Casey Anthony trial, the Florida prosecutor's are pressing for the wrong conviction - if he is found not guilty for 2nd degree murder, pressing a manslaughter case will be extremely difficult.

 

[corwin]

Was he charged with manslaughter? A jury can only convict if there are charges being pressed. They cannot downgrade the charges of 2nd degree murder TO manslaughter. Just like the Casey Anthony trial, the Florida prosecutor's are pressing for the wrong conviction - if he is found not guilty for 2nd degree murder, pressing a manslaughter case will be extremely difficult.

Yes he was iirc...

 

[DrunkenSano]

Unless more evidence comes out, it seems like there is a lack of concrete evidence on what exactly happened during the altercation to have a guilty verdict. If he is found not guilty, there will be riots by the black community in Florida. Shitty media has already stirred this up to be a huge racist hate crime which is retarded.

 

[Jeeebus]

I'd guess a multi-million dollar settlement, unless Florida has some sort of self defense thing that means you can't sue. In which case, I think he would have to be found "innocent" rather than "not guilty" - but IANAL.

First, let me just repeat something I've said multiple times in the past. You can sue anyone you want and potentially get a judgment for billions of dollars. When you turn them upside down and hold them by the ankles, your judgment is only worth what you can manage to shake out of their pockets. So even if you could sue Zimmerman in civil court, good luck on collection. With a judgment looming over him, first thing I would instruct him to do is dump any savings into this house (assuming he owns it) and other exempt assets, and then file a personal bankruptcy. Bye bye judgment (of course, this is why they would probably also sue the HOA and look to its insurance).

Second, Fla. Stat 776.032 provides for immunity from civil actions if a court finds that the defendant was acting in self defense. If the criminal judge dismisses the case because he/she finds that the self defense law was applicable, the civil action is dead. If the parents choose to pursue it, then the law provides for payment of attorneys' fees, loss of income, and other expenses to Zimmerman upon dismissal.

 

[alent1234]

It may not even go to trial. Under the Florida law as I understand things if he asserts he is protected by the stand your ground law the prosecution will have to convince a judge there is enough evidence to prove his actions are not protected under that statute before it ever gets to a jury trial.

the prosecutor in this case is a specialist at convicting people who claim stand your ground

 

[TwiceOver]

Innocent = Riot
Guilty = Dead in prison

No winning for this guy.

 

[Rage187]

not guilty and there will be riots.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Innocent = Riot
Guilty = Dead in prison

No winning for this guy.

Yes. Murder is highly frowned upon.

 

[Merad]

I'm sorry but I'm sure you meant to say the way the legal system works in the USA is innocent until PROVEN guilty...I'm just sure that's what you meant to say...that last part would have to be redacted though because it just wouldn't fit anymore

By claiming self defense he has already admitted that he is guilty of shooting Martin. The trial is about determining if he was justified. Self defense laws talk about how you must "reasonably believe" that your life is threatened, but that's totally thrown out when the case goes to court. Also, by beginning with the assumption that Zimmerman was justified, the law is automatically giving an FU to Martin by assuming that Martin was guilty of.... something worthy of the death penalty. It's particularly sickening since Martin can't defend himself because, oh, he's dead.

But I've read enough of the P&N thread to know how many people here don't give a shit about any of that. :whiste:

 

[DrunkenSano]

Innocent = Riot
Guilty = Dead in prison

No winning for this guy.

The riots wouldn't be his fault though, it'd be the fault of the media and the idiotic famous black people who think that someone of another race killing a black person automatically equals a hate crime. Those people are the real racists.

 

[Capt Caveman]

It may not even go to trial. Under the Florida law as I understand things if he asserts he is protected by the stand your ground law the prosecution will have to convince a judge there is enough evidence to prove his actions are not protected under that statute before it ever gets to a jury trial.

I'm pretty sure the prosecutor spent the time to ensure that their case would be able to pass that hurdle.

When you have the the lawmakers of the SYG bill and the former governor who signed the bill into law stating that the law does not apply to Zimmerman, I would have them subpoenaed as witnesses, if that's possible.

 

[amdhunter]

...
Removed - Admin DrPizza

 

[corwin]

By claiming self defense he has already admitted that he is guilty of shooting Martin. The trial is about determining if he was justified. Self defense laws talk about how you must "reasonably believe" that your life is threatened, but that's totally thrown out when the case goes to court. Also, by beginning with the assumption that Zimmerman was justified, the law is automatically giving an FU to Martin by assuming that Martin was guilty of.... something worthy of the death penalty. It's particularly sickening since Martin can't defend himself because, oh, he's dead.

But I've read enough of the P&N thread to know how many people here don't give a shit about any of that. :whiste:

Of course you choose to use wording like "guilty of shooting Martin" which shows you've already made up your mind about the situation...the trail is and always will be about proving he WASN'T justified, again the burden of proof lies with the prosecutor and not the defendant, that's the way our justice system works, you may not like that but it's the truth, innocent until proven guilty is our way and should never change, it has nothing to do with giving an FU to Martin, but if you don't like our legal system you can move somewhere else and take theirs if you want, ours is a free country you know

And if you wait till all the evidence comes out it may just turn out that he was completely justified, or it may turn out he was an asshat and needs to go sit in a jail cell for a long ass time...but forming your opinion by the incredibly slanted media presentation so far would be ridiculous to say the least.

 

[Capt Caveman]

I think he is guilty and I am 100% in support of him.

I have a ton of Treyvons in my neighborhood I wish I could pull a George Zimmerman on. The only time these little bastards are "good kids" are when they are dead.

The only thing I'd do different is use an aluminum bat than be a pussy and use a gun.

Quoted.

 

[SillyOReilly]

Witch hunt to quell the restless masses of ignorance.

 

[Linflas]

I'm pretty sure the prosecutor spent the time to ensure that their case would be able to pass that hurdle.

When you have the the lawmakers of the SYG bill and the former governor who signed the bill into law stating that the law does not apply to Zimmerman, I would have them subpoenaed as witnesses, if that's possible.

Casey Anthony was a slam dunk for the prosecution too.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Casey Anthony was a slam dunk for the prosecution too.

No it wasn't. Quite the opposite. They pretty much had zero evidence.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Witch hunt to quell the restless masses of ignorance.

Just a couple ?'s.
Was a young man needlessly killed?
Was Zimmerman the man that shot him?
Was Zimmerman qualified or within his rights to detain someone walking back from a 7-11?

 

[DrunkenSano]

Just like this case so far, there is a lot of circumstantial evidence but no concrete evidence of what exactly happened at the scene of the incident. At least nothing that was revealed to the public.

Just a couple ?'s.
Was a young man needlessly killed?
Was Zimmerman the man that shot him?
Was Zimmerman qualified or within his rights to detain someone walking back from a 7-11?

And none of that has anything to do with a hate crime or racism, which the riots will be about.

 

[amdhunter]

Quoted.

It's no secret how I feel about the kids in my area. Just last week we had yet another person have his head caved in with a cement brick, all so they could steal his "Beats" headphones.

There is a recently renovated Basketball court literally 1 block away from my building that opened last year. Ever since then, hoodlums from every neck of the surrounding area gather there and fire guns, smoke weed+crack in the open as well as sell drugs.

Police don't do shit. I have more murders in my own block than the entire rest of NYC combined, and it wasn't like that until those assholes started gathering in the courts.

I literally HATE them, and I DO wish death upon every single one of them. It's not a racist thing. If any race of people hung out there and caused so much crime in my area, I'd want them dead.

 

[amdhunter]

It's no secret how I feel about the kids in my area. Just last week we had yet another person have his head caved in with a cement brick, all so they could steal his "Beats" headphones.

There is a recently renovated Basketball court literally 1 block away from my building that opened last year. Ever since then, hoodlums from every neck of the surrounding area gather there and fire guns, smoke weed+crack in the open as well as sell drugs.

Police don't do shit. I have more murders in my own block than the entire rest of NYC combined, and it wasn't like that until those assholes started gathering in the courts.

I literally HATE them, and I DO wish death upon every single one of them. It's not a racist thing. If any race of people hung out there and caused so much crime in my area, I'd want them dead.

And here is a little graph on 2010 crime in my neighborhood. It's tripled in the last few months.

 

[Red Storm]

And here is a little graph on 2010 crime in my neighborhood. It's tripled in the last few months.

Then it's time to move some place else?

 

[Capt Caveman]

It's no secret how I feel about the kids in my area. Just last week we had yet another person have his head caved in with a cement brick, all so they could steal his "Beats" headphones.

There is a recently renovated Basketball court literally 1 block away from my building that opened last year. Ever since then, hoodlums from every neck of the surrounding area gather there and fire guns, smoke weed+crack in the open as well as sell drugs.

Police don't do shit. I have more murders in my own block than the entire rest of NYC combined, and it wasn't like that until those assholes started gathering in the courts.

I literally HATE them, and I DO wish death upon every single one of them. It's not a racist thing. If any race of people hung out there and caused so much crime in my area, I'd want them dead.

Yet, you insist on living there.