George Zimmerman: Did the prosecution prove its case?

[Doppel]

It's a big national story for many reasons. None of them justifies the longest thread in all AT history. It isn't more important than every other issue in the world.

It definitely isn't but I think it is popular because it is a farce and also splits along racial lines.

 

[lotus503]

112 people reek now.

I think Zimmerman is a lying idiot, I also voted NO.

A guess a skunk really does smell its own hole first.

 

[soundforbjt]

I also voted no when I first posted in this thread, I'll bet 99+% of the GZ supporters thought otherwise. The last sentence of my first post in the huge Z-Man thread still stands to exactly how I feel today..."Dude stays in car, nobody dies."

 

[Nebor]

No, this is one of those rare cases when there are two defense teams and no prosecution, at least based on the arguments from both groups I assume they are both for the defense.

The prosecutor didn't want to prosecute the case since it's so weak, but he was politically compelled to. This is what you get.

 

[Lithium381]

Thinking gz is innocent is different than thinking the prosecution played its hand well regardless of how weak it happened to be.

 

[DCal430]

FYI a Jury can't find him innocent, it can only find him "Not Guilty". That doesn't mean he is innocent.

 

[davmat787]

FYI a Jury can't find him innocent, it can only find him "Not Guilty". That doesn't mean he is innocent.

Thanks Nancy Grace, I don't think anyone knew this little tidbit of legal trivia. :hmm:

 

[DCal430]

FACTS:

1. Zimmerman confronted Trayvon.
2. Zimmerman executed Trayvon with a bullet to the chest.

These FACTS are not in dispute. Remember this.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

FACTS:

1. Zimmerman confronted Trayvon.
2. Zimmerman executed Trayvon with a bullet to the chest.

These FACTS are not in dispute. Remember this.

Why did you conveniently omit all of the other facts that place those facts in context?

Trayvon left the safety of his house and sought out Zimmerman to start a fight.

Trayvon attempted to murder Zimmerman.

 

[davmat787]

FACTS:

1. Zimmerman confronted Trayvon.
2. Zimmerman executed Trayvon with a bullet to the chest.

These FACTS are not in dispute. Remember this.

Dude, take it to the main Trayvon-Zimmerman thread. And no, he did not execute Trayvon as an execution requires premeditation. Anyway, the main thread discussing this event is the more appropriate avenue for this, I dare you to go post these two "FACTS" in that thread.

 

[monovillage]

FACTS:

1. Zimmerman confronted Trayvon.
2. Zimmerman executed Trayvon with a bullet to the chest.

These FACTS are not in dispute. Remember this.

FACTS:

1. Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.
2. Zimmerman shot the criminal dead while defending himself.

These FACTS are not in dispute by anyone with any sense at all. Remember this.

 

[buckshot24]

FACTS:

1. Zimmerman confronted Trayvon.
2. Zimmerman executed Trayvon with a bullet to the chest.

These FACTS are not in dispute. Remember this.

FACTS:

1. DCal430 is a delusional asshole.
2. DCal430 doesn't give a shit.

These FACTS are not in dispute. Remember this.

 

[buckshot24]

"Dude stays in car, nobody dies."

Martin stocks up on skittles, nobody dies. Which is just as meaningful as yours.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

In light of Dee Dee's testimony, you could also say: "Martin walks into his Daddy's fiancee's house, nobody dies." (But instead he left the house to go looking for Zimmerman.)

 

[nehalem256]

I also voted no when I first posted in this thread, I'll bet 99+% of the GZ supporters thought otherwise. The last sentence of my first post in the huge Z-Man thread still stands to exactly how I feel today..."Dude stays in car, nobody dies."

Which is irrelevant to Zimmerman's guilt or innocence. Getting out of his car was not illegal.

Trayvon backtracking from his house and starting a fight with Zimmerman, as seems the likely course of events, is illegal.

If some crazy guy is following you and you make it home. The correct thing to do is lock the door and call the police. Not go back and try to start a fight with the crazy guy.

 

[LTC8K6]

FYI a Jury can't find him innocent, it can only find him "Not Guilty". That doesn't mean he is innocent.

Everyone is innocent under the law unless found guilty...

You start off innocent. That changes only if you plead guilty or if the jury finds you guilty.

 

[zanejohnson]

Which is irrelevant to Zimmerman's guilt or innocence. Getting out of his car was not illegal.

Trayvon backtracking from his house and starting a fight with Zimmerman, as seems the likely course of events, is illegal.

If some crazy guy is following you and you make it home. The correct thing to do is lock the door and call the police. Not go back and try to start a fight with the crazy guy.

you're correct, but it comes down to whether or not Martin believed the cops could help him, the self defense thing goes both ways...

for the record i think Zimmerman will be not guilty of murder, guilty of manslaughter and will probably get probation.

 

[JD50]

I also voted no when I first posted in this thread, I'll bet 99+% of the GZ supporters thought otherwise. The last sentence of my first post in the huge Z-Man thread still stands to exactly how I feel today..."Dude stays in car, nobody dies."

"Martin goes home, nobody dies."

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

"Martin goes home, nobody dies."

Reflecting his flawed "logic" is wasted on him.

 

[Doppel]

Those saying he gets only manslaughter... In Florida there are minimum sentencing laws. If he is guilty of manslaughter and used a gun to do it he goes away for 15-30 years, I can't remember which, but it might as well be murder 1 (though no capital punishment).

 

[nehalem256]

"Martin goes home, nobody dies."

Actually it more like

"If after safely arriving home, Martin stays home, instead of going back to instigate a confrontation, nobody dies."

 

[Tom]

Martin stocks up on skittles, nobody dies. Which is just as meaningful as yours.

That isn't true. Zimmerman getting out of his truck and following Martin is a key part of this case.

When the jury is deciding if Zimmerman had alternatives to killing Martin they could reach back to his deciding to get out of his truck and confront Martin, if they decide that was his purpose based on his non-emergency call statements.

And the prosecution has established the at the time of the shot Zimmerman knew 911 had been called, knew someone was aware of what was happening, and wasn't on the sidewalk.

With the exception of Zimmerman's self-serving statements, there's zero evidence Martin was trying to "kill" Zimmerman. There's zero evidence that the injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head were caused by Martin bashing his head on the sidewalk.

There is evidence Martin struck Zimmerman in the face or head 3 or 4 times. (btw, the injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head could result from him being punched in the face causing his head to hit the sidewalk, a point the prosecution should have raised imo)There's no evidence the first punch Martin landed was the first contact or attempted contact that took place between them.

There's no evidence Martin was aware Zimmerman had a gun. This is just my opinion but if Martin had been aware of it I would think he could have at least prevented Zimmerman from shooting him in the heart.

All of this doesn't mean I think Zimmerman is guilty. My point is the case still rests on the juries' decision if a reasonable person would have made the decision to shoot and didn't have any alternatives.

I don't know the answer to that.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

That isn't true. Zimmerman getting out of his truck and following Martin is a key part of this case.

When the jury is deciding if Zimmerman had alternatives to killing Martin they could reach back to his deciding to get out of his truck and confront Martin, if they decide that was his purpose based on his non-emergency call statements.

And the prosecution has established the at the time of the shot Zimmerman knew 911 had been called, knew someone was aware of what was happening, and wasn't on the sidewalk.

With the exception of Zimmerman's self-serving statements, there's zero evidence Martin was trying to "kill" Zimmerman. There's zero evidence that the injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head were caused by Martin bashing his head on the sidewalk.

There is evidence Martin struck Zimmerman in the face or head 3 or 4 times. (btw, the injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head could result from him being punched in the face causing his head to hit the sidewalk.)There's no evidence the first punch Martin landed was the first contact or attempted contact that took place between them.

There's no evidence Martin was aware Zimmerman had a gun. This is just my opinion but if Martin had been aware of it I would think he could have at least prevented Zimmerman from shooting him in the heart.

All of this doesn't mean I think Zimmerman is guilty. My point is the case still rests on the juries' decision if a reasonable person would have made the decision to shoot and didn't have any alternatives.

I don't know the answer to that.

And if Lincoln had the benefit of psychic foresight, I'm sure he'd would not have gone to the play.

 

[xBiffx]

That isn't true. Zimmerman getting out of his truck and following Martin is a key part of this case.

When the jury is deciding if Zimmerman had alternatives to killing Martin they could reach back to his deciding to get out of his truck and confront Martin, if they decide that was his purpose based on his non-emergency call statements.

And the prosecution has established the at the time of the shot Zimmerman knew 911 had been called, knew someone was aware of what was happening, and wasn't on the sidewalk.

With the exception of Zimmerman's self-serving statements, there's zero evidence Martin was trying to "kill" Zimmerman. There's zero evidence that the injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head were caused by Martin bashing his head on the sidewalk.

There is evidence Martin struck Zimmerman in the face or head 3 or 4 times. (btw, the injuries to the back of Zimmerman's head could result from him being punched in the face causing his head to hit the sidewalk.)There's no evidence the first punch Martin landed was the first contact or attempted contact that took place between them.

There's no evidence Martin was aware Zimmerman had a gun. This is just my opinion but if Martin had been aware of it I would think he could have at least prevented Zimmerman from shooting him in the heart.

All of this doesn't mean I think Zimmerman is guilty. My point is the case still rests on the juries' decision if a reasonable person would have made the decision to shoot and didn't have any alternatives.

I don't know the answer to that.

Exactly what are the alternatives to shooting when your head is potentially about to be caved in by a concrete sidewalk?

The events that lead up to that are inconsequential simply because it isn't against the law to follow someone. Z's life was being threatened, he took action. You always have a right to defend yourself from substantial bodily harm as long as you aren't the aggressor. Following someone does not constitute aggression.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Exactly what are the alternatives to shooting when your head is potentially about to be caved in by a concrete sidewalk?

Easy peasy. He just gets in his time machine and then choses to not get out of his truck. It's that fucking simple! /s