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General VR discussion thread

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flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
154
106
As I said elsewhere, no one forced him to sell Oculus...and when you sell your company (means: give.up.your.ownership), well such things can happen. It was his choice to sell and I think he got a (more than) well-deserved financial reward for it, so I don't see it as him being "screwed" or whatever some people on the internet claim there.

That being said, Mark Zuckerberg is ALSO very enthusiastic about VR...which is a good thing.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,015
3,122
126
MSI announced a Zotac fighter:

https://liliputing.com/2017/03/msi-launches-trident-3-vr-ready-console-sized-gaming-pc.html

Although this model comes with an i7-7700 CPU. My EN1070 has been pretty good (temp system until I build my 1080Ti rig), although it keeps losing the NVMe drive. This was supposed to be fixed with the last BIOS update, but it didn't work. There's a possibility that it may be the NVMe drive itself, although after physically pulling the power 2 or 3 times, it finally recognizes it & boots up. Does not even see it in the BIOS the rest of the time. Not sure if it's an SSD issue or a motherboard issue, but as they released a BIOS update to fix that specific problem, I'd imagine it's a mobo issue. One my 1080Ti rig, I'll swap the NVMe chip & see if that's the problem.

 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,724
437
126
Eh, the dude is rich. He wasn't prepared for the kind of fame he was about to get and the scrutiny that goes with it. He learned and now he's bowing out. Can't say I blame him. It is what it is. He saw his dream come true, and got a fat payday in the process. There's no reason to feel sorry for the guy.
All of the fame also included a lot of pictures of him recently vs. when Oculous was younger... and was shocked at how chubby his face got

If people dug up pictures of how I looked in my youth vs. now, I'd bow out too =P
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
826
126
I finally broke down and ordered Rift touch controllers since they are $99, you get 4 games, a 2nd sensor and the Rockband attachment (not that I'll use it). I ordered a new TV (Sony 75" 940e) so my wife has banned me from throwing grenades in the living room. :(

Overall I still prefer the Vive to the Rift, and I think that will probably remain even with the touch controllers.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,770
347
126
Guys, we need to setup the chaperone tighter so that we have an arms-with past it of open space...
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
826
126
Guys, we need to setup the chaperone tighter so that we have an arms-with past it of open space...
For that to work, one has to actually adhere to the chaperone boundaries...this is easier said than done in the heat of battle. I have come up with a new solution of putting an ottoman in front of the TV. It is a good arms length away.
 
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clamum

Lifer
Feb 13, 2003
26,225
384
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Picked up the HTC Vive because I've been considering it for a little while and I wanted to take advantage of the $100 off. I promised myself that I was going to sell off some old laptops and other things I have laying around before ordering it but I wanted to get in on the sale! Haha. I have listed a laptop on Letgo but the scammers/bots/not-serious people there are the majority it seems.

So I didn't think $700 was too terrible, plus with Prime it was free two day shipping and I had the option of paying in $140 monthly installments with no fees/interest so I opted for that.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,015
3,122
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Picked up the HTC Vive because I've been considering it for a little while and I wanted to take advantage of the $100 off. I promised myself that I was going to sell off some old laptops and other things I have laying around before ordering it but I wanted to get in on the sale! Haha. I have listed a laptop on Letgo but the scammers/bots/not-serious people there are the majority it seems.

So I didn't think $700 was too terrible, plus with Prime it was free two day shipping and I had the option of paying in $140 monthly installments with no fees/interest so I opted for that.
That's a pretty good price, considering most of us paid $800 less than a year ago. What kind of rig are you running it on?
 

clamum

Lifer
Feb 13, 2003
26,225
384
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That's a pretty good price, considering most of us paid $800 less than a year ago. What kind of rig are you running it on?
i7 6700K (default 4 GHz), Radeon R9 390, 16 GB DD4, SSDs. I ran the SteamVR benchmark several weeks or so ago and posted the results in that thread in Video Cards. From my post: "...got a score of 7.5 with no frames below 90, and the graph looked to be an average between high and very high. The FPS counter mostly hovered somewhere near 105-110."
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,012
647
126
i7 6700K (default 4 GHz), Radeon R9 390, 16 GB DD4, SSDs. I ran the SteamVR benchmark several weeks or so ago and posted the results in that thread in Video Cards. From my post: "...got a score of 7.5 with no frames below 90, and the graph looked to be an average between high and very high. The FPS counter mostly hovered somewhere near 105-110."
Most games won't cause you much trouble, because they aren't really graphically intensive. However, you may find that some games may make your system chug a bit, but that may be due to higher settings or the fact that a lot of VR games are in early access right now and aren't polished for performance. Raw Data is an example of a popular game that has had some performance issues in the past.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,015
3,122
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Most games won't cause you much trouble, because they aren't really graphically intensive. However, you may find that some games may make your system chug a bit, but that may be due to higher settings or the fact that a lot of VR games are in early access right now and aren't polished for performance. Raw Data is an example of a popular game that has had some performance issues in the past.
Welllllll there's always the new Titan Xp :D
 

Mutilator

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2000
3,516
10
81
So what are you guys buying on the Steam VR Anniversary Sale? I keep eyeballing Arizona Sunshine...
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
826
126
So what are you guys buying on the Steam VR Anniversary Sale? I keep eyeballing Arizona Sunshine...
I have it, but it runs like crap on my system for some reason. Honestly, most of the stuff I want isn't on sale, but I did grab Pavlov, Survive and The Gallery.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,015
3,122
126
So what are you guys buying on the Steam VR Anniversary Sale? I keep eyeballing Arizona Sunshine...
Yeah, I'm thinking about Arizona Sunshine as well. Still expensive though...and while I don't necessarily regret spending "lots" of money on certain titles like Raw Data (still cheaper than $59 modern console games, at any rate), I do wish they had more story & longer gameplay. My google-fu says that you get about 4 hours of solid gameplay out of this game, which doesn't seem like a lot for over $30, even on sale. I mean, Half-Life came out nearly 20 years ago (gulp) & is three times as long. I do understand that VR is new, but it's been nearly a year since I purchased my Vive & I still feel like I'm waiting on a full-length games.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
826
126
You aren't going to get them. Not any time soon anyway. For some reason the people that are making VR games seem to be under the impression that making a VR game is harder than a 3D game and use that to justify the prices for a 30minute-4hour game. Also, do you really want a 30 hour game who's only gimmick is cool the first 5 minutes, and that's the only thing they do for 30 hours? I don't think we need a 30 hour wave shooter.

I thought a VR version of the Ace Attourney series might be cool. Fully voice acted, and you search for clues between trial days..etc. Most likely never happen though.
 

clamum

Lifer
Feb 13, 2003
26,225
384
126
Most games won't cause you much trouble, because they aren't really graphically intensive. However, you may find that some games may make your system chug a bit, but that may be due to higher settings or the fact that a lot of VR games are in early access right now and aren't polished for performance. Raw Data is an example of a popular game that has had some performance issues in the past.
Thanks for the info, good to know.

I got it setup (which was easy and fast, the hardest thing was going to Best Buy to get a Display Port -> HDMI cable so I could plug it into my video card) although I think I'm gonna move one of the satellite tracking box thingies farther out because I'm only getting about a 1.6m x 2m play area right now. I first wanted to put one of them across the living room but it's over the 5m limit so I moved it forward along the wall but it's too close now.

But I bought Arizona Sunshine and Thrill of the Fight and played both a bit. Sunshine is pretty great; I think the most memorable VR instance was when I actually ducked down to get a clear shot at a zombie through a chain link fence. I also found myself closing one eye when aiming the pistol, just like shooting in real life. I played a couple rounds in the boxing game and it's pretty great too; definitely a workout! It's not precise as far as where punches land and blocking but man, it certainly has promise. Very cool.

Then last night I bought Vanishing Realms, The Solus Project, and VR Minigolf. They all look awesome and it's cool that these titles are a lot less than normal games I'm used to (e.g. $60). I don't know much about the games but it seems they're shorter? At least the Steam sale is nice now, haha. I can't wait to expand my play area a bit and play more but I don't think I'm gonna be able to play much in the near future; I've got a mobile app due for a grad class that I gotta finish first!
 

WhiteNoise

Senior member
Jun 22, 2016
988
139
106
I have played through Arizona Sunshine twice now and just started a third play through. It is by far one of the very best VR experiences to be had.

I cannot wait for Bridge Crew. I am going to play the hell out of that game.
 

pj-

Senior member
May 5, 2015
421
162
116
Arizona Sunshine is fun, but I really really dislike the look of every UE4 VR game I've played. They cannot get a handle on aliasing with deferred rendering, and I guess it's too much effort for devs to switch to the new forward renderer.

You aren't going to get them. Not any time soon anyway. For some reason the people that are making VR games seem to be under the impression that making a VR game is harder than a 3D game and use that to justify the prices for a 30minute-4hour game. Also, do you really want a 30 hour game who's only gimmick is cool the first 5 minutes, and that's the only thing they do for 30 hours? I don't think we need a 30 hour wave shooter.

I thought a VR version of the Ace Attourney series might be cool. Fully voice acted, and you search for clues between trial days..etc. Most likely never happen though.
If you've watched any GDC talks or even just thought about it for a while, I don't know how you could believe VR game development is anything but more difficult than regular game development.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
826
126
If you've watched any GDC talks or even just thought about it for a while, I don't know how you could believe VR game development is anything but more difficult than regular game development.
Eh, I guess I can't say since I'm not a programmer, it just seems odd that it would be THAT much more difficult. The only thing 'different' is the input. Everything else is already done in a 3D world normally. The headgear is simply 'mouse look' in most cases and your body moves independent of that (ala arrow or wasd). Is programming for the hardware really that difficult? Most of it is handled in premade modules (at least that people are using). Practically everything else is typical for 3D games. There hasn't been a single thing I've done that hasn't been done on a computer monitor at some point.

I get that one area that is difficult is movement and not making people sick, thus all the stand in place items.
 

pj-

Senior member
May 5, 2015
421
162
116
Eh, I guess I can't say since I'm not a programmer, it just seems odd that it would be THAT much more difficult. The only thing 'different' is the input. Everything else is already done in a 3D world normally. The headgear is simply 'mouse look' in most cases and your body moves independent of that (ala arrow or wasd). Is programming for the hardware really that difficult? Most of it is handled in premade modules (at least that people are using). Practically everything else is typical for 3D games. There hasn't been a single thing I've done that hasn't been done on a computer monitor at some point.

I get that one area that is difficult is movement and not making people sick, thus all the stand in place items.
The prices aren't just a function of how difficult the game is to make. The developer has to make money and the VR market is tiny. If I make a great VR game, it's going to sell like shit no matter what (because there's like half a million headsets out there tops), and the people who are going to buy the game are going to buy it no matter what (because there's so little content), so why would I not charge $40? It also gives a lot of headroom for steam sales, which is where I expect a large percentage of purchases happen these days.

From what I've seen, one of the hardest things in VR development is the newness. Normal games have had 30+ years of generally accepted "rules" for how things work. Many of those things don't apply in VR and developers have to spend a lot of time creating the "rules" of VR by trying different things to see what works and what doesn't.

The headset is not just mouse look. A mouse only provides rotation information. You can move the headset, aka the camera, in any direction and do things that you don't have to worry about in normal games. For example in a normal game a 2 foot fence is enough to be a barrier but in VR I can physically move my head and go beyond it. Developers have already figured out ways to mitigate this (like fading the screen to black when you move your head someplace it's not supposed to be), but that requires effort.

Probably even more of a challenge than the headset itself is the motion controllers. In a normal game they can limit what you're able to interact with by simply not making it interactive. In VR this isn't really acceptable because when I see a coffee mug on a table I want to pick it up and throw it into the trash can. Also the physical interactions of picking up game objects with the controller and having that feel natural is not easy. Additionally, the ways you can interact with things in a normal game are extremely limited. Just think of the differences in sword combat between a normal game and a VR game. They would have almost nothing in common in terms of how you design the enemies, their AI, their reactions to attacks, the parry/blocking system, etc.

Performance is also more critical in VR than normal games. Very few normal games run at 90fps all the time, and even with VR runtime aids like ATW/ASW, good performance is important and difficult to ensure all the time.

Programming is just one part of game development. Art, design, sound, and testing are all significant parts of development and all have unique challenges in VR. If making VR games was no different than making regular ones, there would be a lot more normal games quickly ported to VR for easy cash in a content starved market. The fact that it's taking so long for Doom VR and FO4 VR to materialize should be an indication that it's not an easy task.
 

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