General VR discussion thread

[Mutilator]

Yeah, I keep my Sennheisers connected to my PC and a cheap Fatality headset (mic removed) dedicated to the Vive.

 

[Sabrewings]

Wireless headphones help make the difference for me. One less cable.

 

[sxr7171]

I found out this weekend that I was wearing the Vive too low on my face. Once I raised it up a bit things got a lot clearer.

For giggles I picked up the Oculus rift this weekend so I could do a side by side comparison of them. While the Vive is definitely more immersive (at least until the Oculus touch controllers come out), I think the Oculus might be a better fit for my space. I have both systems set up in my basement office, which has a pretty low ceiling (7' 3"). As a result, the Vive sensors are only just a smidge higher than their minimum installation height. That and the fact that I am pretty tall (6' 2") appears to be causing some tracking issues with the Vive when I am standing up. Sitting down there are no tracking issues with the Vive. The desktop based sensor for the Oculus has no such issues, though I was sitting down the whole time I used it this weekend. So - one point in favor of Oculus.

That said, I did experience quite a bit of motion sickness/dizziness while using the Oculus, whereas I didn't experience that at all with the Vive. Its possible that this is due to the fact that I tried out much more intense vr experiences with the Oculus (Eve Valkyrie) vs the Vive (Serious Sam), but I'm not sure as I primarily felt ill/dizzy when playing lucky's tail on the Oculus. It was particularly bad when the camera would move and I forgot to move my head with it. The sensation was strikingly similar to what I used to experience as a kid after spinning around a whole bunch of times and then stopping. I.e., my head was stopped but the world continued to spin. Anyway +1 point for the vive.

Graphics wise I noticed no major difference between the Oculus and the Vive. The vive maybe has a smidge wider FOV. On the other hand, I found the oculus display to be more clear and that it was a bit easier to maintain the headset in a position on my head that kept the image clear. No points to either side as this was a tossup IMO.

Audio - Its hard to complain about the audio quality with regard to a VR headset, but its very clear that Oculus thought out the whole user-friendliness aspect a lot better than HTC. Having earphones built into the headset makes it extremely easy to just put on the Rift and play. The sound quality from the included headset isn't great, but it gets the job done. On the other hand, I have consistently found the process of putting on headphones when wearing the vive to be a chore. This is particularly true as one has to done the vive BEFORE donning headphones. While the vive's included camera helps with locating said headphones once the headset is on, the whole process remains cumbersome. Not to mention that the combined weight of the Vive plus decent headphones on your head make it feel like you are wearing a turban or some other head wrap. And in my case, the headphone cable is yet another cable that has to run down my back, along with the already substantial cables running from the Vive to my pc. So +1 point to oculus.

Comfort - Apart from minor differences in weight, strapping, etc., both headsets feel remarkably similar when on my face. I do prefer the cushyness of the vive's included face pads over the one size fits all oculus, but its the difference is not enough for me to give one set a mark over the other.

Great post. I'm glad you got a chance to try both.

I agree putting on the headset after putting on the Vive is a real hassle.

PS VR's counterbalanced system is in the realm of amazing compared to the Vive strap.

FWIW I use my Vive sensors actually set on tables. So they are not much more than 42" of the ground. I try to tilt them upwards. Tracking can be quite good with a little bit of tweaking. But likely not perfect.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I just use the earbuds...I hate them, but everything else seems like a huge hassle.

 

[Aikouka]

I use a pair of headphones, which have worked fairly well.. until I put them on backwards, which completely messes up my audio cues in games.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

I just use the earbuds...I hate them, but everything else seems like a huge hassle.

Unfortunately earbuds are not an option for me. No earbuds I have ever tried have stayed in my ears. Its over the ear or nothing for me, unfortunately.

 

[Aikouka]

Unfortunately earbuds are not an option for me. No earbuds I have ever tried have stayed in my ears. Its over the ear or nothing for me, unfortunately.

The thing about ear buds are that the ear foam piece (or whatever you want to call it) has to be the right size, or it's going to fall out. Have you considered purchasing a multi-pack to try out different sizes? Also, I've heard that some people just mutilate those ear protection inserts (the ones you use when shooting guns) and use them as foam pieces. I've never tried it, but they aren't too much different than the nicer foam ones that I use... except they're far cheaper.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

So it looks like I might have to return the Oculus, which is sad because I like it a good deal better than the Vive for a couple of reasons. The main reason I like the Oculus over the Vive is its ease of use. It is just VERY easy to just start up the Oculus program, don the headset, and go. Everything is ready in just a minute or so - not much more difficult that enabling a new joystick. The Vive on the other hand seems to always require calibration/room setup before it can be used. On average that takes about 5-10 minutes or so - which is annoying when you just want to use the darn thing. And while room scale VR is very cool, its just not a great option given the space I have available to use.

That said, the reason I think I need to return the Oculus is because it has been giving me a serious case of "the spins" every time I use it. I am not very susceptible to motion sickness, but just about every time I use the Oculus I feel like there is a good chance I might toss cookies all over my desk. Particularly if I play games where the camera position moves independent of my head movement. And the worst part is that feeling lingers for quite a while after I take the Oculus off.

FWIW, I have tried setting up the Oculus again, making various adjustments to the fit, etc., to no avail. Honestly I think it has something to do with the optics that are used in the Oculus vs those used in Vive. When using the Oculus I always have this feeling that I am trying to stare down at the tip of my nose. Try it and you will feel what I am talking about. I've adjusted the headset/optics in every way I can think of, with no luck. And interestingly, I don't get that feeling at all while wearing the Vive.

Ah well, I bought the Oculus at Best Buy and I am a member of their "Elite" rewards club, so I have until January 15 to make a decision whether to keep the Oculus or not. So I'm going to keep playing with it for a while and see if I can figure out something to address the motion sickness issue.

 

[Sabrewings]

That's odd that you have to re-cal your room setup every time. I haven't had to run it since I set it up back in April and I use it almost every day.

 

[Aikouka]

That's odd that you have to re-cal your room setup every time. I haven't had to run it since I set it up back in April and I use it almost every day.

I had that problem a bit in the beginning, but it seemed to go away. I'm not sure if it had anything to do with being picky about how I started up. One thing I changed about starting up was that I always turned the controllers on before starting VR. They were also placed out on the floor in the room (essentially, able to be tracked). After doing this, I don't think I ever had to redo room setup.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

That's odd that you have to re-cal your room setup every time. I haven't had to run it since I set it up back in April and I use it almost every day.

Honestly I think it has to do with the fact that the room I am in has a low ceiling, and because I unplug the sensors after each use. If I don't recal, the tracking tends to be pretty bad.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Honestly I think it has to do with the fact that the room I am in has a low ceiling, and because I unplug the sensors after each use. If I don't recal, the tracking tends to be pretty bad.

I unplug sensors after each use and have never had to re-calibrate. You do want to make sure the stem is tightened down and it is all securely attached to the wall.

Also you can "aim" them up or down a bit if you aren't getting full coverage. I read they are 120 degrees.

 

[gorobei]

How did Sony do it? That headset is a revelation in comfort and optics.

im not saying it is all that hard, especially if you are a giant conglomeration with over 50 years of consumer production manufacturing history and access to the optics experts at sony cameras/lenses.
it is just plastic. but for the purposes of vr hmd, flat fresnel lenses are cheap and easy to make with the only real down side being the haze/glow from bleed around the ridges. its part of the tradeoffs and prioritization hierarchy. some people may be bothered more than others, if the glow isnt an issue for most then you can save money, weight, and thickness with the fresnel solution. fresnel lets rift adjust to more ranges of people's vision.
hmds place a tft at close distance to your eyes to fill the fov. the closer it is the wider fov you get. at that small of a distance the optics you need in order to distort the view correctly means the lens needs to refract significantly in unusual ways. when you add in things like vive having multiple focal ranges thru the vertical, it is much simpler to use fresnel ridges to bend the light rather than doing the math/manufacturing to mass produce a solid lens. it is unlikely sony has the multiple focal ranges with its solid lens.

like i said it is somewhat moot, one or two generations from now lens optics will likely be obsolete and not worth worrying about.

 

[ImpulsE69]

If you have a Vive, go grab Google Earth VR. It was released today for free. It is....WOW.

 

[flexy]

Just want to say again how helpful the comparison by Sho'Nuff is, especially since his points totally match/confirm why I ultimately chose the Rift over the Vive. Comfort, built-in headphones, easiness of setup, etc.

(My Rift should be delivered "shortly", when I am extremely lucky tomorrow, or Fr or Mo, I am excited since I have NO IDEA what to expect. I am also "mentally" preparing for some downsides, like screen door effect, resolution, FOV, sharpness etc. and I am very well aware that some things may not be "perfect", I will see)

One concern is indeed motion sickness but here all options are on the table. I might not get motion sick at all, or I may get it to a point that I can't even use the thing. (However I don't ever remember having such a problem in "real" life, but of course you never know...)

I just came across some interesting articles yesterday that Mayo Clinic invented a solution for motion sickness
see http://www.vmocion.com/technology.html via "Galvanic Vestibular Stimulation". That is, 4 electrodes placed on the head (or the VR goggles, respective) "create a complete, three-dimensional sensation of motion and mitigates VR sickness in the vast majority of the population." by stimulating the balance system of the inner ear.

Too bad this came out AFTER the Rift/HTC went consumer, but I absolutely hope we will see this in next gen VR systems. The implementation seems awfully simple to me, really just integrate electrodes in the headset and then transfer impulses depending on movement...voila..motion sickness is a thing of the past.

That being said, I will absolutely know that there is so much in the making right now, including headsets by MS, Google, FOVeated rendering, etc..etc.. which means I am treating this headset really as gen1 and totally expect the one or the other flaw. (So in other words, I intentionally keep my expectations low)

 

[ImpulsE69]

Sho'Nuff's issues are not really representative. I've had way more issues with my Rift than the Vive. That being said, after some updates, they are both pretty stable and hassle free. I have them both hooked up and only swap out the HDMI lines to switch from one to the other. My Vive gets more use than the Rift, until recently when I started playing Dragonfront..which is addictive as hell.

His tracking issues may be due to his low ceiling. They are best mounted about 6-7 foot high and pointed down at an angle towards each other. This way they can both track the top of the headset.

As for why he needs to recalibrate all the time..no idea. Never had to do that.

That being said, I've had to reinstall Oculus software multiple times - which wipes out everything you've downloaded from Oculus. They have a LONG ways to go in usability, but when it works, it works well.

The biggest problem at the moment is locking yourself into one or the other. While Oculus has some great stuff on its store, much of the really fun and more open ideas are on Steam and much of that isn't designed to work with the Rift. That may change more with touch, but still requires everything to have some recoding for support.

 

[flexy]

The biggest problem at the moment is locking yourself into one or the other. While Oculus has some great stuff on its store, much of the really fun and more open ideas are on Steam and much of that isn't designed to work with the Rift. That may change more with touch, but still requires everything to have some recoding for support.

Man tell me about it, I just read about Google Earth VR and I am sorta pissed. Seriously...this is as absurd as games coming out that would only run on Nvidia and not on AMD. I *absolutely* understand the necessity for motion controllers, and here also, as an example, the reasoning why Google is using the motion controllers in Google VR to reproduce the intuitiveness of the Google Earth app in VR. But there shouldn't be any limits in terms of "hard-coding" support for ONE platform into software, that would be really stupid. So I really hope that "porting" such apps for whatever system as long as they have controllers isn't a big deal.

By the way, when you say "are not designed for the Rift" <--- for me is also a caveat. I am one of the people who AT THIS POINT has not an option for room scale whatsoever (unless I would start re-doing our spare room and make it into a VR room, and to be honest, it doesn't even sound too appealing to me). I don't even have the option just merely moving 2ft from my desk in any one direction. So any app for Vive which would be "designed" for this and expects such movement would be pretty much un-useable for me, regardless of how cool/fun it would be to. I really hope when Touch comes out that there will be ways, possibly even with "hacks" or whatever that the two will become interchangeable, also in such cases where there is no "official" support for one platform (for whatever reason). I absolutely agree w/ and hope that developers won't "lock themselves" into one platform.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Man tell me about it, I just read about Google Earth VR and I am sorta pissed. Seriously...this is as absurd as games coming out that would only run on Nvidia and not on AMD. I *absolutely* understand the necessity for motion controllers, and here also, as an example, the reasoning why Google is using the motion controllers in Google VR to reproduce the intuitiveness of the Google Earth app in VR. But there shouldn't be any limits in terms of "hard-coding" support for ONE platform into software, that would be really stupid. So I really hope that "porting" such apps for whatever system as long as they have controllers isn't a big deal.

By the way, when you say "are not designed for the Rift" <--- for me is also a caveat. I am one of the people who AT THIS POINT has not an option for room scale whatsoever (unless I would start re-doing our spare room and make it into a VR room, and to be honest, it doesn't even sound too appealing to me). I don't even have the option just merely moving 2ft from my desk in any one direction. So any app for Vive which would be "designed" for this and expects such movement would be pretty much un-useable for me, regardless of how cool/fun it would be to. I really hope when Touch comes out that there will be ways, possibly even with "hacks" or whatever that the two will become interchangeable, also in such cases where there is no "official" support for one platform (for whatever reason). I absolutely agree w/ and hope that developers won't "lock themselves" into one platform.

Yea, I'm not clear on what the deal with Google Earth is...supposedly it is HMD locked in some way, which goes against everything Valve has been pushing. I'm not sure if that is a legit claim though. As for 'not designed' I use it loosely. Generally it doesn't mean room scale, but more touch/motion controls. 99% of Vive apps are still standing room only, but the motion controllers are a necessity. And those that do require movement, have options that don't involve walking around in your room.

 

[Crono]

My Vive came in today. Set it up for standing/sitting temporarily.

Just finished the initial setup and went through the spaces before having to go to work. Would cheap 72" tripods work well for base station mounting? I want to switch it to room scale this weekend when I have time to try out more games and apps.

Pretty happy with initial experience - especially in regards to performance, latency, and head tracking - though I am looking forward to high resolution displays in the future so virtual displays can be more useful in VR. The controllers work better than I thought they would, though, and I love how they are modeled and tracked in-game.

I plan on getting Fruit Ninja, (I get Fruit Ninja on every platform) The Brookhaven Experiment, and Apollo 11 tomorrow. If anyone knows of other good games (and apps) to buy/try, I'd love some recommendations.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

I plan on getting Fruit Ninja, (I get Fruit Ninja on every platform) The Brookhaven Experiment, and Apollo 11 tomorrow. If anyone knows of other good games (and apps) to buy/try, I'd love some recommendations.

Serious Sam VR is definitely worth checking out on the vive. Its basically finger pistols, but oh so much fun.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Man tell me about it, I just read about Google Earth VR

There is a patch now to remove the headset check. Look on reddit.

 

[flexy]

I just learned about the (old) razer hydra motion controllers.
Maybe old news for some of you guys, but the amazing thing is that Steam has a Rift driver for the razer hydra and that they're 100% compatible to the Vive wands. Means, and I quote:

This driver adds support for the Razer Hydra motion controller in SteamVR. If you own an Oculus Rift and a Razer Hydra – you can now play virtually any VIVE VR title on SteamVR!

This is sort-of amazing seeing that the guys who for example used the hack for Google Earth VR reported they could it only sorta awkwardly get to work with Touch....but no problems whatsoever with the Hydra razor.

I have no doubt in my mind that Touch will be "better", but knowing there is an option for 100% Vive Wand compatibility with the Hydra...is sort of interesting.

(Also..I just read Oculus sends out hardware incl. touch controllers for free to devs. Holy crap, now I really want to develop for VR )

 

[flexy]

DOES someone here actually have a Rift with a (dev version of) Touch?
I'd really like to know whether Google Earth VR with the "proper" patch from reddit works with Touch in the same way as with the Vive wands or if there are some problems. People on reddit are not clear there. This would give an idea about general compatibility of Touch and the Vive wands. (I don't like the idea that razer hydra is possibly 100% compatible w/ the Vive wands but Touch isn't)

Edit: So the general understanding it is does actually work properly with Touch.

 

[Aikouka]

I plan on getting Fruit Ninja, (I get Fruit Ninja on every platform) The Brookhaven Experiment, and Apollo 11 tomorrow. If anyone knows of other good games (and apps) to buy/try, I'd love some recommendations.

There's this other sword-slashing game that I saw on there (and purchased), which I've heard is actually better than Fruit Ninja. I forget what it's called though... I haven't turned on my Vive PC since July.

 

[Linux23]

If you have a Vive, go grab Google Earth VR. It was released today for free. It is....WOW.

yes, WOW is the correct words to use.