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General VR discussion thread

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Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
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This game is pretty much to the top of my "excited to play in VR" list. *

https://youtu.be/S04hsMVcqCQ

(* I'm most excited for SC, but it won't be ready for VR for a while, though I might force it as soon as I'm able just to try.)
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,606
227
106
This game is pretty much to the top of my "excited to play in VR" list. *

https://youtu.be/S04hsMVcqCQ

(* I'm most excited for SC, but it won't be ready for VR for a while, though I might force it as soon as I'm able just to try.)
I don't think it will be as long a wait as you think for SC to have VR. They have been developing with VR compatibility since the Rift was was bought by Facebook (as at the point in time it was pretty certain it would be a product given the $2B that was put into acquiring the asset). Heck, they showed some footage after the second developer kit versions came out on some of the meet the developers and/or Wingman's runthrough the development studio floors.

The things they were working on at that time was adding the control for moving the head independently from moving the body with constraints on the model like real life (needing to twist the torso/shoulders after turning the head so many degrees, etc.).
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
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I don't think it will be as long a wait as you think for SC to have VR. They have been developing with VR compatibility since the Rift was was bought by Facebook (as at the point in time it was pretty certain it would be a product given the $2B that was put into acquiring the asset). Heck, they showed some footage after the second developer kit versions came out on some of the meet the developers and/or Wingman's runthrough the development studio floors.

The things they were working on at that time was adding the control for moving the head independently from moving the body with constraints on the model like real life (needing to twist the torso/shoulders after turning the head so many degrees, etc.).
I remember some of the devs worked on adding DK2 support in their spare time at home, but I hadn't heard of any official time being spent on it until this year. I'm eager to see what they do, even if I can just slip on the HMD when I sit into a seat I'd be happy. Keeping the FPS up with "fidelity" is going to be difficult and probably a job for next year's silicon if not later.

In other news, Owlchemy Labs' spectator mode idea is pretty creative, simple, and awesome IMO.

http://www.polygon.com/2016/3/30/11330766/job-simulator-vive-twitch-youtube

TL;DR demonstration:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mrtlYjJRZ0
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
154
106
I dunno about you guys, but I want to sit the fuck down while playing. The Wii had me moving around and imagining that in VR, regardless of the increased "i'm there" immersion just doesn't interest me. After moving around all day at work, I'd rather just have the visual immersion and no so much the physical....which to me seems like 15' of moving forward/side to side isn't going to cut it in an open world measured in square miles but I'm sure it is interesting experience for interacting with things near to you but I bet most gamer's will eventually Wii out and end up just sitting down.
I am in the same boat although I SEE that the guy I cited from the Vive video review has a point. ULTIMATELY, I think that "room scale" is not doable for *many* people and even if there is an initial hype that the excitement over it might die down.

I am NOT saying this to legitimate my (potential) purchase of the Rift over the Vive (I am not even sure about that!) but simply that I don't see standing/walking as attractive for being essential in gaming, not for the long-term.

Yes, maybe something like "VR Tennis" or a "VR light sabre fight" is at first something incredibly new and exciting...but I think like you that people will ultimately settle back into their seats to play.

(And hey, the idea of walking about, even just a meter from my desk strapped with a WIRED VR Headset and WIRED headphones seems *MORE THAN* impracticable to me. The average geek's PC space is not like a showroom at CES, most people will have cramped spaces). And most people will (literally) become tired if a game would really require them to stand, let alone walk.
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
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You only *need* 1.5m x1.5m which can easily be had by rolling an office chair out. As for standing for gaming, people do it all the time. It's called sports. I am sad for the state of our current society if standing for a while will get between most people and a fun experience.
 

HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,818
30
91
You only *need* 1.5m x1.5m which can easily be had by rolling an office chair out. As for standing for gaming, people do it all the time. It's called sports. I am sad for the state of our current society if standing for a while will get between most people and a fun experience.
Lots of ways to have fun experiences. I do it all the time with current PC games. Truth is, laziness rules all roosts and no one is immune. I'd question how many times gamers will just "roll the office chair out"...or coffee table, couch or grammy in her wheelchair...etc.

What's more likely is some will create a permanent game space or buy an Omni treadmill but at some point, like so many Wii owners, many will end up sitting down. During the Wii's prime, I've even witnessed hyper kids go from being all over the living room playing Wii Bowling to just half assing the arm motion of rolling the ball while on a couch until they got bored of that then bounced off the walls doing something else...likely why the Wii fit board died out so quick.

The ol 'people are sad,pathetic, fat and lazy' Tommy Tough nuts attitude that so many on here condescendingly love to say about people in general is pure hypocrisy because even electricity takes the easiest route and our entertainment is no different.

Granted the virtual experience of nearby interaction will be quite entertaining, so is picking up sticks with dad when your 5 years old, but I think the marketing strategies for both as well as others going forward will end up being the same with each side focusing more on resolution, performance and possible exclusives as apposed to size of room space. Space is a hard sell for something you do in your home.
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
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The ol 'people are sad,pathetic, fat and lazy' Tommy Tough nuts attitude that so many on here condescendingly love to say about people in general is pure hypocrisy because even electricity takes the easiest route and our entertainment is no different.
Hmm, I could play a game with a controller about mountain biking, but I choose to actually mountain bike 30 miles a week at the minimum.

Some people like being active. As for tired arguments, comparisons to the Wii, Kinect, and 3D TVs are old since none of those give you a presence in the virtual world and make you want to move and interact with it.
 
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ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
825
126
Lots of ways to have fun experiences. I do it all the time with current PC games. Truth is, laziness rules all roosts and no one is immune. I'd question how many times gamers will just "roll the office chair out"...or coffee table, couch or grammy in her wheelchair...etc.

What's more likely is some will create a permanent game space or buy an Omni treadmill but at some point, like so many Wii owners, many will end up sitting down. During the Wii's prime, I've even witnessed hyper kids go from being all over the living room playing Wii Bowling to just half assing the arm motion of rolling the ball while on a couch until they got bored of that then bounced off the walls doing something else...likely why the Wii fit board died out so quick.

The ol 'people are sad,pathetic, fat and lazy' Tommy Tough nuts attitude that so many on here condescendingly love to say about people in general is pure hypocrisy because even electricity takes the easiest route and our entertainment is no different.

Granted the virtual experience of nearby interaction will be quite entertaining, so is picking up sticks with dad when your 5 years old, but I think the marketing strategies for both as well as others going forward will end up being the same with each side focusing more on resolution, performance and possible exclusives as apposed to size of room space. Space is a hard sell for something you do in your home.
When it comes to games, it simply comes down to if it is fun or not to justify the moving around. The Wii was NEVER really truly motion control. It was waggle and button pushing emulating movement. It was never really fun.

I think the shift to VR could change some of that perception, or at the very least there are many use cases where full scale movement would be handy. Think 3D modeling, etc.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
Hmm, I could play a game with a controller about mountain biking, but I choose to actually mountain bike 30 miles a week at the minimum.

Some people like being active. As for tired arguments, comparisons to the Wii, Kinect, and 3D TVs are old since none of those give you a presence in the virtual world and make you want to move and interact with it.
I'm not sold on the two activities crossing for the long term. I think people that like to be active will, well, be active in real life. I'm not sure there is much cross over between a mostly passive activity and an active one, at least that is not more than a novelty. We've seen "active" tech activities before and they quickly waned. Like laser tag.

VR is only audiovisual. People that enjoy an active lifestyle do it for much more than those two senses.
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
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When it comes to games, it simply comes down to if it is fun or not to justify the moving around. The Wii was NEVER really truly motion control. It was waggle and button pushing emulating movement. It was never really fun.

I think the shift to VR could change some of that perception, or at the very least there are many use cases where full scale movement would be handy. Think 3D modeling, etc.
Pretty much this. Wii and Kinect comparisons couldn't be further from the experience and would only be made by people who haven't tried it. It's so different that drawing a comparison defeats the purpose entirely.

I'm not sold on the two activities crossing for the long term.
That's how I can tell you haven't tried it.

I think people that like to be active will, well, be active in real life. I'm not sure there is much cross over between a mostly passive activity and an active one, at least that is not more than a novelty. We've seen "active" tech activities before and they quickly waned. Like laser tag.

VR is only audiovisual. People that enjoy an active lifestyle do it for much more than those two senses.
I'm not expecting to mountain bike or be a football allstar in VR. My point was that a little movement during an enjoyable activity is not much to ask and generalizing that the bulk of people are too "lazy" to want to do it is a disservice. VR makes you want to move around and interact with the world. All of the stories of people with DK2s reaching down to pick up a virtual object aren't a coincidence. No one is saying you have to run marathons in VR, but moving around in a space naturally is huge and cannot be overstated. Having virtual hands is absolutely mind blowing and makes the world that much closer to real since you can affect it in a way that is natural to your brain. Once it's been tried the idea of a gamepad is almost offensive and seems absurd.

In other news, thoughts on what it might mean for users that Oculus and Facebook are in bed:

https://as.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4crjxz/oculuss_services_are_always_on_and_you_should_be/
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
825
126
Pretty much this. Wii and Kinect comparisons couldn't be further from the experience and would only be made by people who haven't tried it. It's so different that drawing a comparison defeats the purpose entirely.



That's how I can tell you haven't tried it.



I'm not expecting to mountain bike or be a football allstar in VR. My point was that a little movement during an enjoyable activity is not much to ask and generalizing that the bulk of people are too "lazy" to want to do it is a disservice. VR makes you want to move around and interact with the world. All of the stories of people with DK2s reaching down to pick up a virtual object aren't a coincidence. No one is saying you have to run marathons in VR, but moving around in a space naturally is huge and cannot be overstated. Having virtual hands is absolutely mind blowing and makes the world that much closer to real since you can affect it in a way that is natural to your brain. Once it's been tried the idea of a gamepad is almost offensive and seems absurd.

In other news, thoughts on what it might mean for users that Oculus and Facebook are in bed:

https://as.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4crjxz/oculuss_services_are_always_on_and_you_should_be/
Not at all unexpected, but I would imagine the majority on there screaming OMG burn Rift are avid FB users and running Win 10.

Of course, my fear is that FB is going to start trying to link the Rift and what you are doing with FB in some manner and I definitely am not spending $600 for that intrusive BS. Unfortunately, if they do go that route, I do not expect them to make it fully self functioning. It will be mandatory because people seem to think it is ok and it will pop up all the fricking time if you don't.
 
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Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
Not at all unexpected, but I would imagine the majority on there screaming OMG burn Rift are avid FB users and running Win 10.

Of course, my fear is that FB is going to start trying to link the Rift and what you are doing with FB in some manner and I definitely am not spending $600 for that intrusive BS. Unfortunately, if they do go that route, I do not expect them to make it fully self functioning. It will be mandatory because people seem to think it is ok and it will pop up all the fricking time if you don't.
Fair enough points, but the same thread on the Oculus Reddit is trending the same way.

https://as.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4crsmo/oculuss_services_are_always_on_and_you_should_be/

As for the Win 10 mention, as a network security major I can attest that subject is way overblown. I've parsed the data coming out of my network with three Win 10 machines and there is nothing of a concern there. That's with simply turning off things available in the UI. But, that's another subject entirely to fight the sensationalism of big bad Microsoft.
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,015
3,815
136
I canceled my Rift preorder. I think I'll wait for a Gen2 device by Valve+HTC.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
29,931
593
126
Hm, I'm still trying to find out when I'll get my Vive. Due to actually trying to use the Vive pre-order page, which didn't go live until at least 5 minutes after the start time, I ordered around 15 minutes in. The ol' rumor mill is saying that if you didn't order within the first 10 minutes, you won't get it for the April 5th release.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
That's how I can tell you haven't tried it.
Tried what? VR in general? I owned a DK1. I haven't tried the light house.

I'm not expecting to mountain bike or be a football allstar in VR. My point was that a little movement during an enjoyable activity is not much to ask and generalizing that the bulk of people are too "lazy" to want to do it is a disservice. VR makes you want to move around and interact with the world. All of the stories of people with DK2s reaching down to pick up a virtual object aren't a coincidence. No one is saying you have to run marathons in VR, but moving around in a space naturally is huge and cannot be overstated. Having virtual hands is absolutely mind blowing and makes the world that much closer to real since you can affect it in a way that is natural to your brain. Once it's been tried the idea of a gamepad is almost offensive and seems absurd.
I'm not saying people don't want to reach out and touch stuff. I had that same reaction when I used it. I'm not sold that I will want to dedicate an entire room to walk around in though. I think there may be a few experiences that are fun to do that way, but I don't see it being a game changing feature that has long term legs as in creating entirely new genres. I think it is a novel feature, but not something that will be the staple of gaming. Seated motion controls seem like the obvious middle ground that most people will like.
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
Hm, I'm still trying to find out when I'll get my Vive. Due to actually trying to use the Vive pre-order page, which didn't go live until at least 5 minutes after the start time, I ordered around 15 minutes in. The ol' rumor mill is saying that if you didn't order within the first 10 minutes, you won't get it for the April 5th release.
I hope it's not true. This is HTC which can pump out millions of phones. So why can't they produce 10,000 headsets? I ordered about 15 minutes in because it was confusing to find the order page. I'm expecting a shipping notice soon. I'd be pretty upset if ordering 15 minutes in doesn't get the headset on day one.

Edit: A pre order today says it will ship in May. I'm fully expecting my headset some time in April at the very least.
 
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Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
Tried what? VR in general? I owned a DK1. I haven't tried the light house.
Roomscale with motion controls. Just like with VR in general, if you haven't tried it you don't get it.

I hope it's not true. This is HTC which can pump out millions of phones. So why can't they produce 10,000 headsets? I ordered about 15 minutes in because it was confusing to find the order page. I'm expecting a shipping notice soon. I'd be pretty upset if ordering 15 minutes in doesn't get the headset on day one.

Edit: A pre order today says it will ship in May. I'm fully expecting my headset some time in April at the very least.
There are two different April batches. The first roughly 10 minutes is batch 1 (which is over 15,000 units). Primarily, the hold up on numbers is likely tied to Samsung's ability to pump out screens. HTC has no control there and has had similar issues with Samsung before. Hopefully it's all worked out this time.

Just be glad HTC/Valve are handling it better than Oculus:

https://as.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4crrh7/is_anyone_else_just_fucking_furious/

For HTC, if you just use their email support form, they will kindly tell you which batch you're in and your expected arrival date.

Edit: https://as.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4crrh7/is_anyone_else_just_fucking_furious/d1kv90r

Edit 2: Potential info on why the Rift is darker/dimmer:

https://as.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4cu87k/goddamn_its_the_sea_of_tranquility_here_wtf_is/d1ll9p8

And Google announces Cardboard Plastic:

http://youtu.be/VkOuShXpoKc
 
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Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
Yeah, I got a vague email from HTC that "my order was being prepared", even though it's not supposed to ship until May. I'd really prefer to know when they're going to yank $800+ from my account ahead of time...
Shoot them an email with this form.

https://store.digitalriver.com/DRHM/store?Action=DisplayContactFormPage&SiteID=htcus&Locale=en_US&ThemeID=38736100&Env=BASE

The next day I got a very helpful email telling me what batch I was in and the estimated arrival date.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
29,931
593
126
There are two different April batches. The first roughly 10 minutes is batch 1 (which is over 15,000 units). Primarily, the hold up on numbers is likely tied to Samsung's ability to pump out screens. HTC has no control there and has had similar issues with Samsung before. Hopefully it's all worked out this time.
That's a bummer as I was hoping to have it earlier, but at least I should have it before the month is up. It probably wouldn't bug me as much if their page hadn't been a huge hang-up in regard to my order time. I sent them an e-mail through that form, so we'll see what they say.
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
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I don't completely believe that, but if you want to dismiss me then that is your choice.
Believe what you will, and so will I. Things like the below link come up on Reddit daily since the Vive Pre came out and even more so since the Oculus deliveries started (all 8 of them, it would seem). Not a single review (even the average Joe who has had it 45 days now) has felt like motion controls or room scale are a gimmick. If anything, he has said it feels even more compelling. If you can find one that illustrates otherwise, please show me.

https://as.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4cy9ya/i_got_my_rift_today_an_exercise_in_frustration/

My all too brief time with a Pre was all I needed to be absolutely convinced that this is how to experience VR.
 
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