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Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
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What may prove more telling is the various private conversation Patraeus has with various congressional leaders. If these talks are held in some confidence, it could gave the net effect of bringing congress towards a better plan over the objections of GWB. Patraeus need not offer himself up as a sacrificial dupe of GWB and Patraeus has the means and opportunity to be honest in private conversations.
If nothing else, Congress and a new President can hit the ground running when the time inevitably runs out for GWB&co. But that assumes there will be anything left to be salvaged. A faster track may be conversation the GOP moderates like Warner and Lugar who could deliver enough GOP moderates over to the democrats so a sensible
bi-partisan congressional plan can take shape.
GWB&co. may be total idiots but they can't nullify the common sense out of an entire country. And GWB&co have failed at leading, I doubt they will follow, and Congress does have the ability to tell them to get out of the way. If GWB&co. want to be total lame ducks, they are well on the way towards being role cast as powerless lame ducks. Right now the GOP controls the balance of power to prevent lame duckhood, but they will have a very hard time running in 08 with Iraq hanging over their heads.
GWB&co. may be able to manipulate any reports, but as we all know, they don't control events in Iraq. Fox news not withstanding, they can't stop the truth from coming out.
If nothing else, Congress and a new President can hit the ground running when the time inevitably runs out for GWB&co. But that assumes there will be anything left to be salvaged. A faster track may be conversation the GOP moderates like Warner and Lugar who could deliver enough GOP moderates over to the democrats so a sensible
bi-partisan congressional plan can take shape.
GWB&co. may be total idiots but they can't nullify the common sense out of an entire country. And GWB&co have failed at leading, I doubt they will follow, and Congress does have the ability to tell them to get out of the way. If GWB&co. want to be total lame ducks, they are well on the way towards being role cast as powerless lame ducks. Right now the GOP controls the balance of power to prevent lame duckhood, but they will have a very hard time running in 08 with Iraq hanging over their heads.
GWB&co. may be able to manipulate any reports, but as we all know, they don't control events in Iraq. Fox news not withstanding, they can't stop the truth from coming out.
umbrella39
Lifer
- Jun 11, 2004
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As expected, the neocon fringeoids are attempting to move the goalposts and re-spin the originally announced source and intent of this report, just in case Patraeus' actual report turns out not to paint the rosey picture they hope against reality to get.
/end of your credibility! :thumbsdown: :roll: :thumbsdown:
ProfJohn
Lifer
- Jul 28, 2006
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Harvey did you miss the part of thread where we talked about how this report was mandated by the law that provided funding for Iraq?
Sounds like they are following the letter of the law. And as I said before, nothing will make you happy so why bother talking about it at all?
Sounds like they are following the letter of the law. And as I said before, nothing will make you happy so why bother talking about it at all?
No, I didn't miss it. The entire point is that Bush and his cohorts have been pimping this as "The Petraeus Report," not another Whitehouse snowjob. Now, regardless of what actually happens, the way they NOW describe it it sounds like it's yet another in a long string of bait and switch rope-a-dope tactics.
As I said, yesterday, it sounds like you're one of those doing the pimping, echoing the Whitehouse spokes-mouths, talking point for talking point.
You still haven't answered my previous questions:
- How do you justify squandering any more American lives for the administrations' lies?
- How many more American lives, other than your own, are you willing to waste for those lies?
- If it's such a good idea, why haven't you volunteered to put yours on the line for those lies?
Lanyap
Elite Member
- Dec 23, 2000
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ProfJohn
Lifer
- Jul 28, 2006
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Harvey I haven?t answered your questions because I don?t agree in the premise of them.
I am not even going to bother wasting my time trying to explain why I feel that way because you don?t care what I think.
The decision to stay or leave Iraq has to be based on what is in our best interest today. Lies, WMD, oil etc are all part of the past, we have to plan for the future.
I am not even going to bother wasting my time trying to explain why I feel that way because you don?t care what I think.
The decision to stay or leave Iraq has to be based on what is in our best interest today. Lies, WMD, oil etc are all part of the past, we have to plan for the future.
It's been 110% stay the course full steam ahead since day one, what makes you think they would paint any different of a picture now?
Only history will reveal and tell the truth although with your ilk buying up most of the media and revising it for your nefarious purposes (see Fox revise Wikipedia for example) I am concerned about the truth getting buried like many civiliztions before us (Mayans, Egypt etc).
Nobody asked you if you agree with the premise. You've been pimping the Bushwhackos' war of lies forever. I could cut you a little slack if you were taken in at the front end. So was Congress and far too many of the American people.
Now that we all know for certain that EVERY excuse they offered for starting the deadly fiasco has been conclusively proven to be lies, if you're still supporting it, the premise is valid.
I might if you ever told the truth, instead of just mouthing the meaningless talking points of the Whitehouse spokes lackey du jour.
I think one plan for the future should be housing the entire adminstration at Guantanamo, once they're convicted of treason and the murder of every American troop who died for their lies. As of 5:50 pm EDT, today, that number is up to 3,702, three more than yesterday at this time.
If you're so concerned about "our best interest," I'd think you'd care a lot more about stopping the continuing, meaningless slaughter of your fellow Americans and maybe have show a little more respect for those we've already lost for your Traitor In Chief's lies.
I think it's more likely you just don't have the balls to face up to what the answers to my questions would tell you about all of your shattered beliefs and misplaced faith.
Corn
Diamond Member
- Nov 12, 1999
- 6,390
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As I've stated many times before, as a Republican I liked the neocons better when they were aligned with the Democrats. But you knew that already didn't you Harvey, or you just haven't been paying attention the past 6 years or so. But since you are a know nothing lefty blowhard I would imagine that little details such as not misrepresenting the viewpoints of your political opponents is pretty low on the "to do" list. I may be crass but I've got something you'll never have: Integrity.
Funny how the last time I told you those same words you ran and hid. The truth sucks, huh Harvey?
Alas, so I have no credibility in your eyes. You couldn't imagine how satisfied I am hearing that good news.
JD50
Lifer
- Sep 4, 2005
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Harvey, you don't get it. Even if the war was based on lies, thats irrelevant to the situation that we are in today. We can't just say to the Iraqi people, "oops, sorry about that, good luck with everything" and then leave. We have to finish what we started. Some of us actually do care about the Iraqi people, just pulling out and leaving now would be retarded. Once we have this situation taken care of, feel free to go on your psychotic rants about Bushwackos war of lies, until then, we need to stay focused and fix what we broke. Your ranting about a war of lies does ABSOLUTELY NOTHINGto solve the problems that we are facing.
Your Democrats have decided that they aren't going to do anything about Bush's supposed "lies", he's going to be in office until his term runs out. If you have a problem with that, I suggest that you start lobbying the Democrats that you voted for to do something about this. You are just wasting energy with your crazy rants here, no matter how well intentioned they may be.
Answer this for me, what does your constant ranting about Bush lying to get us into this war do to help our situation right now? If this "evidence" that you supposedly have about Bush lying came out, and it was without a doubt true that Bush lied specifically so that we would invade Iraq, how would that change anything wrt our situation in Iraq?
Your Democrats have decided that they aren't going to do anything about Bush's supposed "lies", he's going to be in office until his term runs out. If you have a problem with that, I suggest that you start lobbying the Democrats that you voted for to do something about this. You are just wasting energy with your crazy rants here, no matter how well intentioned they may be.
Answer this for me, what does your constant ranting about Bush lying to get us into this war do to help our situation right now? If this "evidence" that you supposedly have about Bush lying came out, and it was without a doubt true that Bush lied specifically so that we would invade Iraq, how would that change anything wrt our situation in Iraq?
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
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To JD50----who writes---Harvey, you don't get it. Even if the war was based on lies, thats irrelevant to the situation that we are in today. We can't just say to the Iraqi people, "oops, sorry about that, good luck with everything" and then leave. We have to finish what we started. Some of us actually do care about the Iraqi people, just pulling out and leaving now would be retarded. Once we have this situation taken care of, feel free to go on your psychotic rants about Bushwackos war of lies, until then, we need to stay focused and fix what we broke. Your ranting about a war of lies does ABSOLUTELY NOTHINGto solve the problems that we are facing.
Jd50, Sadly your argument boils down to the democrats being obligated to save Bush's bacon. When Bush does nothing to save his own bacon and obstructs any inputs from democrats to do anything. Saying in essence, I am the decider and only by totally throwing out the baby with the bathwater, can you do anything to stop my stupidities.
What part of that crapola should inspire love and respect for GWB from anyone---and you accuse Harvey of ranting?
Jd50, Sadly your argument boils down to the democrats being obligated to save Bush's bacon. When Bush does nothing to save his own bacon and obstructs any inputs from democrats to do anything. Saying in essence, I am the decider and only by totally throwing out the baby with the bathwater, can you do anything to stop my stupidities.
What part of that crapola should inspire love and respect for GWB from anyone---and you accuse Harvey of ranting?
JD50
Lifer
- Sep 4, 2005
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I'm not talking about loving and respecting GWB, not quite sure where that came from actually.....I don't care about saving him, or anyone else. What I care about is getting the job done in Iraq, and not just leaving the Iraqis to clean up our mess.
That is the problem with you BDS sufferers, you are so fixated on GWB you can't see that a lot of us that support the war in Iraq could care less about GWB. You just proved in your post how many of you care much more about GWB looking bad than you do about our troops or the Iraqi people, thats disturbing. GWB fucked up, but what does that have to do with staying in Iraq and finishing what we started? Would you care to answer any of the questions that I posed to Harvey Lemon Law?
This is not about the Democrats being obligated to save Bush, this is about our elected officials being obligated to get the job done and stop bickering like children. Playing the blame game does nothing but hurt us. Hey, but at least you guys can say that the Republicans fucked up, congrats.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
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Well JD50---now you come back with--This is not about the Democrats being obligated to save Bush, this is about our elected officials being obligated to get the job done and stop bickering like children. Playing the blame game does nothing but hurt us. Hey, but at least you guys can say that the Republicans fucked up, congrats.
That argument still places the lions share of the blame on the GOP. With a totally childish and irresponsible GWB trying to treat the democrats like children---and then acts if that will inspire obedience or dialog?--And in case you have failed to note it, I have been posting my hopes that the moderate wing of the GOP will break with GWB so we can get a possible more responsible bi-partisan plan----JD50, you seem missing in action on how to get to any plan that will be more responsible.
Maybe you need to break with the dark side and start to see ways to get to where you want to see us going---but step one is still breaking with GWB&co.
That argument still places the lions share of the blame on the GOP. With a totally childish and irresponsible GWB trying to treat the democrats like children---and then acts if that will inspire obedience or dialog?--And in case you have failed to note it, I have been posting my hopes that the moderate wing of the GOP will break with GWB so we can get a possible more responsible bi-partisan plan----JD50, you seem missing in action on how to get to any plan that will be more responsible.
Maybe you need to break with the dark side and start to see ways to get to where you want to see us going---but step one is still breaking with GWB&co.
Yeah, I do get it. Would it suprise you that we agree?
Would it suprise you that, earlier in this same thread, I posted:
We're stuck with that reality, but the point of my OP was about the bait and switch difference between "The Patraeus Report" and "administration officials said it would actually be written by the White House..."
That's more of the same lies they've been telling since they took office.
It sure does something for me. It reminds me that the only way we'll avoid another take over of our most important institutions of government by a criminal cabal is to try the current criminals in power for the crimes they have committed.
Yep. That pisses me off, too. :frown:
Done that. I use stuff I post, here, when I write them. It's like having an editing space to see other sides of an issue before writing.
How can I not stand up to the apologists for this failed, criminal administration? Look at what not stopping them has cost us.
why bother? losers like you will just paint a new line in the sand.
besides come up with a million exceptions to whatever reply is given.
it could be pouring rain outside and you would claim its sunny if Bush said it was raining.
That makes your Traitor In Chief and his criminal cabal the biggest losers of all, followed by you and the rest of the Bushwhacko sycophants.
Their bait and switch from "The Patraeus Report" to "administration officials said it would actually be written by the White House..." is just the lastes example. There was that line about them WMD's they said we'd find:
Got any WMD's, or did they just grab another can of paint?
More paint, Scotty! We need more paint!
Considering the administration's long, unbroken history of lying, it's most likely that the truth is the opposite of anything they say.
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
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We could use an awful lot more reality around this forum, particularly from the Dems.
It's one giant manufactured (fake) crisis after another around here. :thumbsdown:
So, this thread as a perfect example:
Whaaa GWB is cheating, Patraeus is traitoror WHAAA WHAAA the reports gonna be written by GWB and Patraeus is not gonna speak to Cpngress Whaaa!
Now we know the report is written is accordance with laws passed by the Dem controlled Congress. This is the second report, the other was done in July. Nothings's new, nothing is changed, just manufactured crappolla by FUD spreaders.
Yesterday, I read this thread and am surprised & disapointed to learn that Patraeus isn't gonna address Congress, then I go home and turn on the and find out that he IS gonna address Congress. More bullshit :|
So many of you people don't know what the hell you're talking about, just running around the 'net spreading FUD. FISA, Blackwater, now the Patreaus report.
If their was any justice in this world your noses would be soo long you couldn't reach your keyboard. And those of us seriously interested in the issues wouldn't have to waste time on such FUD.
Fern
You're right. Nothing's new, and nothing has changed. The Bushwhackos are still selling the same bait and switch lies, selling the report as The Patraeus Report.
Better send out for some more paint. If you need more sand, try volunteering to put your own ass on the line in Iraq, instead of squandering the lives of others in your Traitor In Chief's war of LIES. You'll find more than enough sand in that desert to keep your head buried for whatever's be left of your lifetime, once you're there.
You won't need more paint for that ever-shifting line in the sand. There's plenty of spilled blood all over the place, as long as you'll settle for red. As of 11:16 am EDT today, that number is up to 3,705, three more than than it was a little under 18 hours ago.
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
- 174
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Originally posted by: Harvey
Better send out for some more paint. If you need more sand, try volunteering to put your own ass on the line in Iraq, instead of squandering the lives of others in your Traitor In Chief's war of LIES. You'll find more than enough sand in that desert to keep your head buried for whatever's be left of your lifetime, once you're there.
You won't need more paint for that ever-shifting line in the sand. There's plenty of spilled blood all over the place, as long as you'll settle for red. As of 11:16 am EDT today, that number is up to 3,705, three more than than it was a little under 18 hours ago.
I don't understand your references to paint and sand?
You come and complain about how the report is going to be written and Patraeus not addressing Congress.
Now we know the report is written in accordance with laws passed by a Dem controled Congress and that Patraeus WILL testify publically before the whole Congress. Accordingly, your thread & complaints are bogus.
I can't volunteer for military duty. I was too old for the military age requirements when this *war* started. And even though they've upped the age requirements, I'm still to old.
Your whole "if you support the war you need to volunter" thing is a lame bit of BS in the first place, and way over used by you IMO. Long ago (and led by Dem efforts) the US extablished that military policy would be directed by civilians. Accordingly, it's perfectly appropriate for non-military citizens to support use of military force.
To espouse that non-military citizens cannot support use of the military (as you do) results in a logical conundrum that suggests we can never use the military. Or worse, leaving it soley up to the military themselves when use of force is necessary.
And following your line of thinking, you have no business calling for pacifism until you go volunteer for the *Peace Corps*.
Fern
See [/b]Shivetya[/b]'s previous reference to "painting a new line in the sand." I took that to be the same as moving the goal line to suit the admin's alleged target du jour.
I'm sure that's a great comfort to your conscience as you pimp squandering more American blood and lives for the Bushwhackos' LIES.
At 65, I'm probably older than you, and I did put in my six years in the Army Reserve from 1961 - 1967.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
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