General Petraeus Would Rather Betray Us Than Tell Us The Truth, After All.

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I think some of you have unrealistic expectations.

It is a Republican White House do you expect them to let the Democrats write the report?

I hope we get an honest report, but I expect the White House to play up the good news and talk around the bad news. It would be no different if a Democrat was in office.

No, i expect the Pentagon write the report and have it go through some sort of review process. What is the point of having the report other than to lie to the American people? The more honest approach would be for the whitehouse to write their own report without saying it's Petraeus' report and have the American people just roll their eyes. But since it's being portrayed as Petraeus' report, people are going to think it's legitimate. You said it yourself, the Whitehouse will play up the good news and talk around the bad news. And of course it doesn't make you angry because that's what you want to happen.

 

[Lemon law]

The point being, Patraeus will submit a report that may or may not be his best attempt at the truth at the time. And in two or three months we can all look back and see that what he said on September 15 was not true and based on irrational exuberance. Sooner or later everyone will cease believing Patraeus and they will get some new poobah, say give the new guy some time to have his better ideas kick in, and rinse and repeat. So it went in Vietnam and I don't think Iraq will be any different.

Frankly I think Patraeus is one of the sharpest cookies we can come up with, I don't think he is a dishonest man, but without the 500,000 troops he needs, Iraq will continue to go to hell in a handbasket. Right now Iraq is a political and not a military problem. And as long as GWB&co, drops the political ball, the military can't be effective. And the insurgencies know that fact far better than we do and see only a rosy future for themselves.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I think some of you have unrealistic expectations.

It is a Republican White House do you expect them to let the Democrats write the report?

I hope we get an honest report, but I expect the White House to play up the good news and talk around the bad news. It would be no different if a Democrat was in office.

No, i expect the Pentagon write the report and have it go through some sort of review process. What is the point of having the report other than to lie to the American people? The more honest approach would be for the whitehouse to write their own report without saying it's Petraeus' report and have the American people just roll their eyes. But since it's being portrayed as Petraeus' report, people are going to think it's legitimate. You said it yourself, the Whitehouse will play up the good news and talk around the bad news. And of course it doesn't make you angry because that's what you want to happen.

Kind of like the mainscream media, isn't it? Kinda cool that the media can do whatever the want, THAT'S FREEDOM!

I for one don't want our plans or intelligence revealed.

One has to learn from history and realize what propoganda is (and don't for a second think that it isn't a large tactic in war....just look at al-jazerra). Let us not give our enemies fuel.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
It has always been intended that this report would be presented by Petraeus and the ambassador to Iraq together.

Thanks for parroting today's Whitehouse news mouthpiece.

Do you really expect these two men to sit in a tent in the green zone and pound out a major policy paper on their own?

Short answer: YES!

Long answer:

Yoo hoo, Johnny boy -- These are mature, educated, presumably intelligent men. I'm sure enough of their own staff people are literate enough to help them prepare their own report. The Whitehouse filter is just more of the admin's ropa-dope cover up and stall for time game. Go back and check your Traitor In Chief's own repeated rhetoric referring to Patreus's report.

Trotting out this bait and switch routine, now, is pure bullshit.

Harvey, you will be happy to know that these two are suppose to go in front of congress and present the report and answer questions. That will give the Democrats a chance to question anything in the report they don?t agree with.

It really doesn't matter. The on camera Whitehouse face said exactly the same thing you did. The speed of the message distribution system is amazing. Don't they understand how arrogant that sounds?

Sadly for you though the Democrats themselves are slowly starting to admit that the surge is making a difference. Read the stories about Dick Durbin and the other Democrat Senator who went to Iraq recently. We have gone from ?we must leave Iraq because it is a failure? to ?now that we are succeeding in Iraq we can start to leave.?

Even a fastest case exit strategy would take substantial planning and time to execute. Call it whatever you want as long as it means we're planning the best way out, instead of trying to somehow justify the bullshit that got us in and is keeping us in.

PJ -- Questions:

• How do you justify squandering any more American lives for lies?
  
• How many more American lives, other than your own, are you willing to waste for those lies?
  
• If it's such a good idea, why haven't you volunteered to put yours on the line for those lies?

You're the one who gets to live with yourself for your answers.

 

[Lemon law]

Hopefully the best the September 15'th Patraeus testimony will buy is just another few months of funding. And finally kick the can down the road into the real world. As Republicans and Democrats finally wake up to the fact that the political primaries are starting up and the voting public won't tolerate just empty words. Its going to be far harder for the Republicans who will have to get off the fence and decide to run with or against GWB.

Another possibility is that the various Iraqi insurgencies will decide to seize the moment and the carefully crafted Patraeus whitewash will come up every bit as credible as the now deposed Iraqi information minister. It is a little hard to deliver a rosy report when the Iraqi government is falling apart and a simmering civil war erupts into a full boil. Just because GWB&co may be pulling out all the stops to stack the deck does zit in regards to stopping other rascals from doing their own deck stacking.

Those who think the GWB fix is already in may have a surprise or two in store for them. In case no one has noticed, Iraq is a rather large beast and we just don't have it under any kind of control.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Hopefully the best the September 15'th Patraeus testimony will buy is just another few months of funding. And finally kick the can down the road into the real world. As Republicans and Democrats finally wake up to the fact that the political primaries are starting up and the voting public won't tolerate just empty words. Its going to be far harder for the Republicans who will have to get off the fence and decide to run with or against GWB.

Elections are a lovely reason to abandon Iraq for the purpose of fermenting genocide sponsored by Iran and Al'qaeda. Any other group of people you'd like to see dead so you can stick it to GWB?

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Hopefully the best the September 15'th Patraeus testimony will buy is just another few months of funding. And finally kick the can down the road into the real world. As Republicans and Democrats finally wake up to the fact that the political primaries are starting up and the voting public won't tolerate just empty words. Its going to be far harder for the Republicans who will have to get off the fence and decide to run with or against GWB.

Elections are a lovely reason to abandon Iraq for the purpose of fermenting genocide sponsored by Iran and Al'qaeda. Any other group of people you'd like to see dead so you can stick it to GWB?

Yeah, blame him for the carnage:roll:. Man I swear I never hear people like you owning up to anything. It's always somebody's else's fault: Iran, Al Qaeda, Liberals, immigrants, Sunnis/Shi'ites. Grow up and be a man. Take responsibility for your actions.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I think some of you have unrealistic expectations.

It is a Republican White House do you expect them to let the Democrats write the report?

I hope we get an honest report, but I expect the White House to play up the good news and talk around the bad news. It would be no different if a Democrat was in office.

No one said anything about whether the report is written by republicans or dems, but you can try to obfuscate the point some more if you'd like.

The point is that the report should be as much without bias as possible, and that is basically impossible if it is coming from the WH. The entire admin's legacy is at stake with Iraq, and you expect a fair report to come from them? Please.

 

[Lemon law]

The point is that Iraq has thousands of good and bad events happening every day. And how those events are edited leaves one heck of a lot of room to reach a large number of different conclusions. And even historical trend lines may be nice smooth lines or curves until they suddenly do something radically different.

The point being, the upcoming report is really going to be about predicting the future. And anyone guess is somewhat is good as anyone else's. And only months later can anyone PROVE it was not a good prediction. By then one is dealing with some new report at some future date by some other poobah.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Read: The report coming from the General does not meet the expectations of Democrats and their lackeys (LA Times is one very much one) so now the drive has been to discredit the partiality of the General or to imply that the WH will disregard the report that was supposed to occur (all doom and gloom) but in reality didn't.

between this, the missing guns story, and others, it was obvious that the report was not going produce the data desired by the lunatic fringe out there so a means is needed to

a. paint the report as false
b. paint the white house as ignoring the real results
c. paint the general as incompetent and thereby the results as wrong
d. give an out for the Democrats who can't seem to shake their moonbat anti-war consituents who are actually holding their elected officials to their promises?
e. all of the above

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Hopefully the best the September 15'th Patraeus testimony will buy is just another few months of funding. And finally kick the can down the road into the real world. As Republicans and Democrats finally wake up to the fact that the political primaries are starting up and the voting public won't tolerate just empty words. Its going to be far harder for the Republicans who will have to get off the fence and decide to run with or against GWB.

Elections are a lovely reason to abandon Iraq for the purpose of fermenting genocide sponsored by Iran and Al'qaeda. Any other group of people you'd like to see dead so you can stick it to GWB?

Yeah, blame him for the carnage:roll:. Man I swear I never hear people like you owning up to anything. It's always somebody's else's fault: Iran, Al Qaeda, Liberals, immigrants, Sunnis/Shi'ites. Grow up and be a man. Take responsibility for your actions.

Forcing us to withdraw is going to kill a great deal of people. Maybe YOU should owe up to that before you continue pushing for it. When the justification for this is an election it crawls under my skin. Maybe we have different qualifications for the justification of genocide.

Maybe I just don?t like your methods; we share the desire to see our troops back home.

 

[Genx87]

Good to see the libs are prempting this report just in case it turns out to not paint the dire picture they so hope.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Hopefully the best the September 15'th Patraeus testimony will buy is just another few months of funding. And finally kick the can down the road into the real world. As Republicans and Democrats finally wake up to the fact that the political primaries are starting up and the voting public won't tolerate just empty words. Its going to be far harder for the Republicans who will have to get off the fence and decide to run with or against GWB.

Elections are a lovely reason to abandon Iraq for the purpose of fermenting genocide sponsored by Iran and Al'qaeda. Any other group of people you'd like to see dead so you can stick it to GWB?

Yeah, blame him for the carnage:roll:. Man I swear I never hear people like you owning up to anything. It's always somebody's else's fault: Iran, Al Qaeda, Liberals, immigrants, Sunnis/Shi'ites. Grow up and be a man. Take responsibility for your actions.

Forcing us to withdraw is going to kill a great deal of people. Maybe YOU should owe up to that before you continue pushing for it. When the justification for this is an election it crawls under my skin. Maybe we have different qualifications for the justification of genocide.

Maybe I just don?t like your methods; we share the desire to see our troops back home.

Whether Iraq becomes heaven on earth or the worst humanitarian disaster since the Holocaust will ALWAYS rest with those that pushed for this invasion. And need I remind you that many have died already? Your prediction of a new holocaust is nothing more than that. Were it to happen. the blame will still fall to the men and women that started this war. Face it, the men and women that pushed for this war ignored sound advice (sometimes their own as with Cheney from 1994), now they are trying to amend things by blaming others. I'm certainly not stupid. What I see is Bush wanting to win on his terms. He doesn't give a fuck about the Iraqis. If he did, he would internationalize this tragedy and bring in Iraq's neighbors, rather than pointing fingers at them. Face it, America lost in Iraq and there is no going back. You lost. Give peace a chance by admitting your weakened position and asking for help from anybody and everybody.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Good to see the libs are prempting this report just in case it turns out to not paint the dire picture they so hope.

Believe whatever you want but the picture looks worse than you think. Tell me one absolute good news that came out of this surge and I will admit that you are right. By absolute I mean that it is something that is good for Iraqi sovereignty, the Iraqi people, and the Iraqi government. Just one.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
It has always been intended that this report would be presented by Petraeus and the ambassador to Iraq together. Do you really expect these two men to sit in a tent in the green zone and pound out a major policy paper on their own?

Harvey, you will be happy to know that these two are suppose to go in front of congress and present the report and answer questions. That will give the Democrats a chance to question anything in the report they don?t agree with.

Sadly for you though the Democrats themselves are slowly starting to admit that the surge is making a difference. Read the stories about Dick Durbin and the other Democrat Senator who went to Iraq recently. We have gone from ?we must leave Iraq because it is a failure? to ?now that we are succeeding in Iraq we can start to leave.?

Well not so much now PJ:

"Senior congressional aides said yesterday that the White House has proposed limiting the much-anticipated appearance on Capitol Hill next month of Gen. David H. Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan C. Crocker to a private congressional briefing, suggesting instead that the Bush administration's progress report on the Iraq war should be delivered to Congress by the secretaries of state and defense."

Text

As for Dick Durbin, you mean this I presume:

"As our troops show some progress toward security, the government of this nation is moving in the opposite direction. This is really unsustainable with the American people," Durbin said in an interview with National Public Radio."

This has ALWAYS been the problem, lack of real sovereignty for the government and inability to get oil sharing legislation passed. We can't leave until the government has some semblance of legitimacy and stability and I don't see that on the horizon anytime soon.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Genx87
Good to see the libs are prempting this report just in case it turns out to not paint the dire picture they so hope.

Believe whatever you want but the picture looks worse than you think. Tell me one absolute good news that came out of this surge and I will admit that you are right. By absolute I mean that it is something that is good for Iraqi sovereignty, the Iraqi people, and the Iraqi government. Just one.

You wouldnt admit a damn thing and you know it, so save both of us the bandwidth.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: spidey07
L.A. Times.

Enough said. False reporting and poor journalism, yet again.

"expected"

This is not news. This is op-ed and more BS.

-edit
bwahahahahaha

This article is pure junk. "expected", "top officals", "UFOs told us so!"
No source named. just "expected" and "an offical".

Boy you nailed the source with this post. I mean who would ever get news from an organization that has:

Major Journalism Awards

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Maybe you can find the rebuttal posted on WND and really show us that they are full of shit?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: spidey07
L.A. Times.

Enough said. False reporting and poor journalism, yet again.

"expected"

This is not news. This is op-ed and more BS.

-edit
bwahahahahaha

This article is pure junk. "expected", "top officals", "UFOs told us so!"
No source named. just "expected" and "an offical".

Boy you nailed the source with this post. I mean who would ever get news from an organization that has:

whako moonbats, that's who.

Seriously, can you not see how this article is full of speculation and reported as "news"?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: spidey07
L.A. Times.

Enough said. False reporting and poor journalism, yet again.

"expected"

This is not news. This is op-ed and more BS.

-edit
bwahahahahaha

This article is pure junk. "expected", "top officals", "UFOs told us so!"
No source named. just "expected" and "an offical".

Boy you nailed the source with this post. I mean who would ever get news from an organization that has:

whako moonbats, that's who.

Seriously, can you not see how this article is full of speculation and reported as "news"?

Still waiting for you to fill that wide open loud mouth with one fact that supports your mindless rant. You can count to one, can't you? :roll:

< crickets >[/b]

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Genx87
Good to see the libs are prempting this report just in case it turns out to not paint the dire picture they so hope.

Believe whatever you want but the picture looks worse than you think. Tell me one absolute good news that came out of this surge and I will admit that you are right. By absolute I mean that it is something that is good for Iraqi sovereignty, the Iraqi people, and the Iraqi government. Just one.

You wouldnt admit a damn thing and you know it, so save both of us the bandwidth.

Enlighten me. Besides, my major is Applied mathematics so proofs need to be rigorous and valid. If your standards are weaker than that, it's forgivable but may I suggest that you be able to backup your claims?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: XMan
Perhaps General Petraeus is just a bit too damn busy running a war to sit down and type up a report?

Where's Patton when you need him . . . sheesh.

see my sig.

 

[ProfJohn]

This whole thread is a farce. The Democrats don?t want the truth out of Iraq, they only want to see more bad news. Anything less than ?we have failed and must leave immediately? will be attacked for not being the truth.

I wish I could find that Pelosi quote that basically says the same thing. Essentially ?no amount of goods news etc etc?

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
This whole thread is a farce. The Democrats don?t want the truth out of Iraq, they only want to see more bad news. Anything less than ?we have failed and must leave immediately? will be attacked for not being the truth.

I wish I could find that Pelosi quote that basically says the same thing. Essentially ?no amount of goods news etc etc?

And I'm assuming you want the truth and nothing but the truth? To think I was wrong about you all this time.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
This whole thread is a farce. The Democrats don?t want the truth out of Iraq, they only want to see more bad news. Anything less than ?we have failed and must leave immediately? will be attacked for not being the truth.

I wish I could find that Pelosi quote that basically says the same thing. Essentially ?no amount of goods news etc etc?

What exactly is the GOOD NEWS?

"You know, the number of Iraqis killed went up 25 percent in July over June. The number of troops killed in July was twice what it ordinarily has been in July. It depends on how you look at these numbers. There have been fewer big bombings; although, there still are big bombings, but there have been more people killed by sniper fire.

So the violence has not subsided, and the guerrilla resistance in the Sunni Arab regions is still very powerful. And there?s no sign of a political solution to this thing, which is the only real solution to this kind of guerrilla war. So I?m afraid I don?t think, if the report is honest, we?re going to see a lot of progress here."

Text

We are no closer to the finish line, if you want to take what has transpired in the last couple months and call it a success® so now we can draw down troops you are an absolute clown.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
This whole thread is a farce. The Democrats don?t want the truth out of Iraq, they only want to see more bad news. Anything less than ?we have failed and must leave immediately? will be attacked for not being the truth.

I wish I could find that Pelosi quote that basically says the same thing. Essentially ?no amount of goods news etc etc?

And I'm assuming you want the truth and nothing but the truth? To think I was wrong about you all this time.

The truth is that the situation in Iraq has improved since the surge started. The evidence of this is all over the place. You only have to open your eyes to find it.

The big unanswered question becomes ?is there enough progress to warrant us staying there longer.?