GeForce Titan coming end of February

[DooKey]

Two 690s vs three Titans.

What would you choose?

The Titans.

 

[Grooveriding]

Two 690s vs three Titans.

What would you choose?

The Titans for sure. More memory bandwidth, while 3 card scaling is not the best, it's going to consistently be better overall across your game library than 4 card scaling is, which doesn't scale well compared to 3 in many games. Three Titans in SLI will be faster than your two 690s (If rumoured performance numbers are true).

I would sell them right now, before Titan even releases if that's your plan. They're going to lose value rapidly if the Titan card really does cost $900. I think more people looking to drop a $1000 will get a Titan and eat the performance difference vs a 690 or 680SLI to have the newest card. If this price expectation of $900 plays out I think nvidia is going to whore this card out well into next year and will have nothing better until they release 20nm cards. Refresh GK104 for 780/770 and Titan GK110 will sit on its own at $900 until very close to 20nm, similar to 8800 ultra.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Is Titan snipped, or not?

What are the chances this is an fully enabled K20X for GeForce "special edition" and we'll later see a GTX 780 with the typical DP snip and half the vram?

 

[thilanliyan]

That doesn't change my point that people who ripped 7970's prices at launch but are now not doing the same for the Titan are hypocritical.

Did you expect any less? Lol

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Did you expect any less? Lol

I think most everyone would agree that if it's $900 the price is just redic, but so is it's alleged performance.

With the 7970 release the performance increase was rather lackluster, AMD sticker shock took place, and people were generally put off by the small increase in performance for a full node shrink and pricing validation based on old products.

With Titan, if rumors are correct there is no reason to say "That price is too high, Price/Perf isn't very good", because everyone already knows it; therefore nobody is going to argue otherwise. The people who will buy this card won't care about any of that, this is a niche product, well above the already niche $500 price point.

In other words, nobody is in an uproar because "No kidding captain obvious".

This is a product that will make your epeen drag, nothing more. There is no sense trying to quantify it based on us "lesser mortals" ideals, it's not meant for us. That said I'm disappointed, but life goes on. I'll vote with my wallet when I don't buy it, without any delusions that Nvidia cares.

 

[RussianSensation]

Two 690s vs three Titans.

What would you choose?

3 Titans, overclocked. I am not sure the 4th GTX680 chip even provides more than 25% GPU scaling in real world games. It probably puts out nice synthetic benchmarks but I think the Titans will give you an overall higher level of smoothness/performance since 2 of them alone should on paper be 90-95% of GTX690x2 SLI. If 2 Titans 90% of GTX690 SLI, then 3 Titans > GTX690 SLI.

Is Titan snipped, or not?

What are the chances this is an fully enabled K20X for GeForce "special edition" and we'll later see a GTX 780 with the typical DP snip and half the vram?

From what I've read, the Titan is already getting the DP snip like Kepler to 1/24th DP. 875mhz @ 2688 CUDA x 2 Ops/clock * 1/24 = about 196 Gflops in DP.

"The company castrated the Double Precision, and you can expect great Single Precision performance (2,688 CUDA cores times 875 MHz should result in around 4.5 TFLOPS SP from a single chip). Double-precision follows the Kepler tradition of 1/24 Single Precision performance. Yes, 4.7 TFLOPS SP and 196 GFLOPS DP, nicely protecting Tesla K20/K20X and the upcoming Quadro K6000 products." ~ BSN

I think February 18th is the paper launch, with retail availability February 24-26th (rumours from wcf).

 

[Fx1]

Where is this Titan then? Vaporware

 

[blastingcap]

How many ASICs have shipped? 1-2? You've been saying that GPU mining will be unprofitable last fall, as far back as September at least. Back then people who listened to me went with HD7900 cards and paid for most of them by now. Right now the difficulty is so low relative to the price of coins, that even 1 month of mining on two 7900 cards would generate $100 in pure profits. Add to this that 7900 cards cost less than GTX600, and come with AAA games. All these factors together make them much cheaper overall. Price/performance is important to some people.

No one is advocating someone purchase HD7000 specifically for bitcoin mining. That's what you keep missing. Some people come on the forums asking what GPU to buy in the $300-800 range. No one here tells someone to go out and buy 10-20 HD7000 cards for mining. If you are already considering HD7950 x2 against GTX660Ti in SLI, it should be mentioned since it can save people $ on their purchase.

The fact of the matter is, ASICs are here, and they are shipping. The first few got air-shipped but by air or boat, ASICs are going to pop up very soon as they are en route to customers even as I type this. http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/1/3941768/new-chips-mine-bitcoins-50-times-faster

I was basing my forecast on $12 bitcoins. BTC prices doubled in the last month or so. I don't think many people expected such a surge and if they did they should have bought coins instead of videocards. Just because there was a lucky surge in price recently doesn't mean you were "right." Would you be saying the same thing if prices went from $12 to $6 instead of $12 to $24? Or even if they stayed the same? Yeah I thought not. Hell the people forecasting doom in real estate in 2005-2006 were "wrong" by your standards because prices kept going up in real estate anyway, but the truth came out in 2008. They were "early" in their call only due to luck (of psychology pumping prices up even after 2006).

The HD7xxx series needs no help from you to sell. They offer better bang for the buck on their own merits even if you don't consider bundled games and bitcoin.

You are giving an incomplete story. That's what I take issue with. I keep hearing you take advantage of this lucky surge in btc prices to make it sound like you can make $150/mo indefinitely if you buy a 7970 today, without mentioning electricity prices or BTC price movement or ASICs. You also brag about how your cards paid for themselves last year. Yeah, I'm sure they did--LAST year. It wouldn't be misleading if you were to say that if you act fast, you might be able to get back say, $50 on mining, assuming cheap enough power and prices staying constant and difficulty staying constant, and ASICs not truly hitting until April rather than Feb-March, but you don't do that; you do not give full context and make it sound like a done deal.

 

[tviceman]

Where is this Titan then? Vaporware

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34456953&postcount=54

Lol. You must be joking.

So a HPC GPU which is designed to run Tesla Cards is going to beat its top of the line home desktop gaming GPU? LOL The die area is 2x as big as GK104 and the power consumption is massive. Whilst offering no tangible performance benefits in 3D gaming. There is a very good reason why Nvidia stripped out most of the HPC from the latest desktop GPU's. What makes you think putting them back in is going to improve things for 3D gaming? How much do you think its going to cost to make GPU's 2x as big as they are now? 2x as much thats how much.

30% is dreaming

So you've gone from saying GK110 has twice the die size (untrue) and massive power consumption (unknown) and offering no tangible benefit in performance (funny math), and claiming that a30% improvement in performance over GK104 as "dreaming" (funnier math) to Titan being vaporware when it's existence as a geforce card was confirmed 4 weeks ago and is coming out next week?

You need different meds.

 

[RussianSensation]

Yet I keep hearing you take advantage of this lucky surge in btc prices to make it sound like you can make $150/mo indefinitely if you buy a 7970 today, without mentioning electricity prices or BTC price movement or ASICs. You also brag about how your cards paid for themselves last year. Yeah, I'm sure they did--LAST year. You are giving an incomplete story.

Wrong. I never say indefinitely. You keep missing the point. There is a consumer who already wants to buy a videocard(s) and is choosing between an NV and AMD one. Budget is a factor or otherwise this person would have bought a GTX690 and moved on. The focus shifts to features, value and price/performance as well as ability to get more performance out of GPUs through overclocking (because the value of cards like HD7950 OC to pass HD7970GE/GTX680 is something that should be talked about on an enthusiast forum). Things like gaming performance, game bundles and ability to subsidize the price of GPUs by either selling game coupons or mining are all discussed. I also note if the consumer resides in US/Canada because in those countries the electricity rates are relatively low. No one in this VC&G sub-forum suggests anyone buy a GPU specifically for mining unless they ask for that. I don't give an incomplete story and neither do I brag. I am just giving people advice on how to upgrade on the cheap(er) so that they can potentially save $ toward their next GPU upgrade when bitcoin mining fails. You just don't want more people to mine because that would mean sharing coins with others.

The reason you continue to discourage people from considering bitcoin mining at all costs, and have been for as long as I remember, is because you know if more people joined then difficulty would rise and it would hurt your own profits. You keep discussing ASICs, etc. again not taking into account that HD7900 series already offers superior price/performance, which makes BTC mining on it (for as long as its profitable) a bonus, not a requirement to make it a worthwhile purchase. Additionally, you have missed the context of HD7970 launch prices being discussed. Other than the #s I provided of GTX580/7970 vs. 7970GE/Titan, it was mentioned on more than one occasion by early 7970 owners that many of them purchased HD7970 at launch for $550 knowingly that the card would be used for both games and bitcoin mining. Therefore, they were willing to pay the extra premium for the extra mining performance which they projected would ultimately offset the early adopter $550 price premium. For this reason, many AMD buyers swallowed the $550 asking price in January 2012 because of the mining implications. Again, this is talking about guys on our forum, not people purchasing HD7970 at BestBuy. Therefore, the Titan's $900 asking price is not the same as say buying HD7970 CFX for $1100 on January 2012. That makes it much harder to swallow under the same conditions when mining still works. For example, if a mythical HD8990 launched with 6,000 shaders and cost $900, many people here would have bought it because mining is still profitable which would make it more justifiable to spend so much $ on a GPU. A $900 Titan will not have the ability to pay for itself over time, not even for 1 day, which means it's targeting the most hardcore PC enthusiasts for whom PC gaming may be their primary hobby or people with higher income levels for whom $900 is a drop in the bucket.

In other words, nobody is in an uproar because "No kidding captain obvious".

1 small correction. Some people are in uproar because they are blaming AMD for allowing NV to raise the price of mid-range GK104 to $500 and GTX580's true successor to $900. If this continues, what could this mean for Maxwell's mid-range and high-end pricing structure if NV continues to release flagship GPUs with 50-60% more performance than AMD's best $500 card? You see in the past the $500 AMD card was $299 as 4870, $369 as HD5870/6970. Now AMD went to $550 for those. Doesn't that mean the ASL of desktop GPUs are rising across the board from both AMD and NV and we are accepting them because we keep buying? Ironically the more all of us buy, the more incentive AMD and NV have to raise prices. It's a catch-22 for us because we want to play with new hardware

The people who will buy this card won't care about any of that, this is a niche product, well above the already niche $500 price point.

Why wasn't 8800GTX priced at $899 when it launched then? It also outperformed HD2900XT/3870 by 50%+. I agree with your point that the Titan will sell every single one though because the Ares II is sold out on the Egg at $1,500 and the Titan is rumoured have 90-95% of that performance for $900.

 

[blastingcap]

Oh please, you do brag about it, and you do give incomplete stories, and people do interpret what you say as meaning indefinite mining money to be made BECAUSE you give incomplete stories and don't talk about how ASICs have already hit. I don't think I've ever seen you talk about ASICs unless someone brings it up first. Yes, I do have a self interest in not seeing more miners, but what I state is TRUE nevertheless, and I do walk the talk (I sold off some video cards last fall in advance of rewards halving).

At this stage of the game ASICs are already here (see link I made to Verge article). And what I said last October was also true, that with ASICs incoming assuming all else equal that meant GPU mining was over. You're just lucky that prices went up. If prices stagnated in the 10-12 dollar range we would not even be talking about this... look at how utterly dead it was in the bitcoin thread on this subforum during Nov-Dec when prices were in the $10-12 range and difficulty didn't drop much after the rewards halving (just as I predicted by the way.. the doubling in price wasn't due to mining rewards halving but due to a lucky bounce in demand).

You're like a real estate pumper in 2007 talking about how there is still money to be made in real estate... and not talking about the tell-tale signs that the party was overdue for a crash. I'm like the guy with a minor short position against real estate in 2007 warning people the party's about to crash (ASICs). So despite my self-interest, I can speak the truth at the same time. And I don't even have much of a position left in the mining game anyway.. like I said, I walk the talk and already sold out of much of my mining capacity.

I don't know what your agenda is re: AMD but the current prices are already in favor of AMD. 79xx is a better bang for the buck (unless you need PhysX or something) even disregarding game bundles. There is no need to pump them up further by exaggerating mining profits and talking about the past when nobody is sure what the future will bring in terms of price, but everyone is pretty sure that difficulty will skyrocket as ASICs come online. If bitcoin prices halved tomorrow would you still be singing the same song? I think so, you keep looking at 2012, not 2013.

 

[Zanovar]

This is gonna become novel worthy*searches for glasses*snoooooze,pm maybe?

 

[blastingcap]

A $900 Titan will not have the ability to pay for itself over time, not even for 1 day, which means it's targeting the most hardcore PC enthusiasts or people with higher income levels.

You edited your post to add this so I'll comment on it separately.

On this I agree. Titan's value sucks. That said, the kind of person who would blow $900 on a gaming GPU probably doesn't give a damn. This is the card for people who want to run 3x27" monitors or something with such mammoth VRAM. It's the videocard equivalent of a Ferrari F40 or something like that and meant for a niche market. Such people probably don't even care about mining, quite frankly. They are in another kind of income bracket. (I tried to get some friends into mining last year, but as one of them put it, he valued his time and ears more than the paltry sum he'd get from mining. He a senior Google employee.)

 

[RussianSensation]

650Ti vs. Titan

925mhz GPU clock ---> 875-915mhz (similar)
768 SP ----> 2688 SP (3.5x)
64 TMUs --> 224 TMUs (3.5x)
16 ROPs ---> 48 ROPs (3x)
128-bit bus --> 384-bit bus (3x)
GDDR5 5400 --> GDDR5 6Ghz?

I think the Titan can end up at 340-350% on this chart.

 

[HutchinsonJC]

So if the numbers I was able to find match up to reality, the Titan has about the same double precision flops as a 580 GTX?

 

[Fx1]

The real problem this chip is going to have is that it will be slower and more expensive than the 7970 CF and 690 GTX.

So basically your paying for the whole Single GPU vs Dual GPU. The dual GPU will likely extend its lead the longer you own it and the Single GPU will devalue and always play second fiddle.

There is no guarantee that the single GPU will be stutter free either given recent problems

 

[n0x1ous]

The real problem this chip is going to have is that it will be slower and more expensive than the 7970 CF and 690 GTX.

So basically your paying for the whole Single GPU vs Dual GPU. The dual GPU will likely extend its lead the longer you own it and the Single GPU will devalue and always play second fiddle.

There is no guarantee that the single GPU will be stutter free either given recent problems

I nominate the quoted post above from FX1 as the worst post of the entire thread. Completely illogical and backwards in every way.

I think its looking pretty clear that Titan will be cheaper then the 690. Single GPU will be better in the long run as it doesn't rely on SLI profiles to get its performance. So long after Nvidia has moved on past the 600 series, the Titan will be much better off then the 690, not to mention its greater VRAM and memory bandwidth.

I don't know what you are going on about stutter issues with a single GPU and you somehow think it would be better to have a dual GPU?

Stop trying to spread this ridiculous FUD.

 

[Keysplayr]

The real problem this chip is going to have is that it will be slower and more expensive than the 7970 CF and 690 GTX.

So basically your paying for the whole Single GPU vs Dual GPU. The dual GPU will likely extend its lead the longer you own it and the Single GPU will devalue and always play second fiddle.

There is no guarantee that the single GPU will be stutter free either given recent problems

This chip will have no problem and Nvidia will probably sell every one they make. There is always something to be said about the preference of a single GPU over multi. To have close to or equal to multi GPU performance in a single GPU is worth the price of admission alone. No question.

 

[Fx1]

This chip will have no problem and Nvidia will probably sell every one they make. There is always something to be said about the preference of a single GPU over multi. To have close to or equal to multi GPU performance in a single GPU is worth the price of admission alone. No question.

IT wont be that close. i bet about 15% less than 690 GTX which makes it about 25% slower than a 7970 CF

 

[Fx1]

I nominate the quoted post above from FX1 as the worst post of the entire thread. Completely illogical and backwards in every way.

I think its looking pretty clear that Titan will be cheaper then the 690. Single GPU will be better in the long run as it doesn't rely on SLI profiles to get its performance. So long after Nvidia has moved on past the 600 series, the Titan will be much better off then the 690, not to mention its greater VRAM and memory bandwidth.

I don't know what you are going on about stutter issues with a single GPU and you somehow think it would be better to have a dual GPU?

Stop trying to spread this ridiculous FUD.

Who do you think you are? idiot.

For a start a 690 GTX has 2 x 256bit memory bus which is MORE than a single 384bit bus. So basically a single 7970 has just as much bandwidth as this titan. A 7970 CF has double the bandwidth and the same Vram.

IF you actually understood my post you would see that i said its all about single or dual GPU setup. So how its that backward or illogical.

And single cards do have stutter issues its been all over this damn forum

 

[chimaxi83]

You might want to edit that post Fx1...just sayin. Don't demean or insult Titan or you'll draw the wrath of the usual suspects around here.

 

[Keysplayr]

You might want to edit that post Fx1...just sayin. Don't demean or insult Titan or you'll draw the wrath of the usual suspects around here.

Put your can of gasoline away Chimaxi.

 

[Keysplayr]

IT wont be that close. i bet about 15% less than 690 GTX which makes it about 25% slower than a 7970 CF

Whatever. They will still sell all they make.

 

[Fx1]

Whatever. They will still sell all they make.

Probably will.

The world is full of idiots with more money than sense.

This forum is full of em.

 

[Keysplayr]

Probably will.

The world is full of idiots with more money than sense.

This forum is full of em.

Does that come easy to you? Insulting people like that? Not a care?