Gays and having children

[Zxian]

Jill and Jane have a child, but Bob wants visitation and parental rights. Do all three names go on the birth certificate?

A few years later Jill and Jane separate, Jill gets possession of the child, do Jane and Bob both have to pay child support?

Your example is moot, and completely backwards.

Adam and Eve want to have a child. Adam happens to be infertile. Steve is an anonymous donor. Steve and Eve are the biological parents to the child (even though Adam and Eve don't know him). Steve signed away all rights to the child as a donor. He may get updates if Adam and Eve decide to do so.

Regardless of what happens to Adam and Eve's marriage, Steve can't suddenly jump in and claim legal rights to the child, nor can Eve suddenly claim that he needs to pay child support.

Take the above example, and replace the infertile Adam with a woman named Jane. Same scenario, homosexual parents. Same legalities.


Take any existing heterosexual scenario with an infertile couple, or a couple that adopts for any other reason (I have some friends who adopted after their biological child died). Now replace one of the parents with one of the opposite gender, forming a homosexual relationship. What makes that scenario so much different than the infertile heterosexual scenario, aside from your prejudice against the "lifestyle"?

 

[Texashiker]

Your example is moot, and completely backwards.

Adam and Eve want to have a child. Adam happens to be infertile. Steve is an anonymous donor. Steve and Eve are the biological parents to the child (even though Adam and Eve don't know him). Steve signed away all rights to the child as a donor. He may get updates if Adam and Eve decide to do so.

Why are you excluding the rights of the biological parent?

It makes the situation convenient when one walks away. But not everyone is a deadbeat parent, or just wants to doante sperm or eggs.

 

[SheHateMe]

Are you serious?!


Sperm Donors don't have parental rights. Thats the point of being a DONOR. You are just helping someone have a child. Please, go to your local sperm bank and ask them what the conditions of donating are.


This thread is growing more and more bizarre.

 

[nageov3t]

I really just feel like you're arguing in circles at this point.

either the donor/father would have to sign away his rights (in the case of insemination or adoption) or the couple is potentially exposed to having to battle for custody in court if the father wants custody.

 

[Texashiker]

Are you serious?!

Sperm Donors don't have parental rights. Thats the point of being a DONOR. You are just helping someone have a child. Please, go to your local sperm bank and ask them what the conditions of donating are.

You are trying to avoid the difficult choices.

I really just feel like you're arguing in circles at this point.

either the donor/father would have to sign away his rights (in the case of insemination or adoption) or the couple is potentially exposed to having to battle for custody in court if the father wants custody.

I have not brought up the topic of donation, that has been other posters trying to get around the tough choices.

This thread is about parental rights. If someone is a donor, then they have no rights.

 

[SheHateMe]

You are trying to avoid the difficult choices.

You responded to someone's comment on sperm donators not having rights and your argument was "what about the biological parent's rights?"

What about them?

Why are you excluding the rights of the biological parent?

It makes the situation convenient when one walks away. But not everyone is a deadbeat parent, or just wants to doante sperm or eggs.

:|

 

[fskimospy]

I cannot for the life of me see how anything in this thread doesn't apply equally well to straight couples.

 

[Texashiker]

You responded to someone's comment on sperm donators not having rights and your argument was "what about the biological parent's rights?"

Thread from the very start is about parental rights, and not donation.

 

[SheHateMe]

Thread from the very start is about parental rights, and not donation.

...then why on Earth would you be asking questions about biological parent's right in response to someone's comment on sperm donation?

 

[Texashiker]

...then why on Earth would you be asking questions about biological parent's right in response to someone's comment on sperm donation?

Why are you and other posters avoiding the tough questions?

Changing the context of the thread to donation fixes everything. That is until a biological parent wants to be part of a childs life.

I cannot for the life of me see how anything in this thread doesn't apply equally well to straight couples.

The question I present to you, and only to you, do gays want equal responsibility to go along with those equal rights?

You see gays saying they want to make decisions for their children. But how many of them do you see demanding to pay equal child support?

 

[SheHateMe]

Why are you and other posters avoiding the tough questions?

Changing the context of the thread to donation fixes everything. That is until a biological parent wants to be part of a childs life.

See. Nobody is avoiding your questions. You keep changing what you want this thread to be about.

So, are you talking about donation or are you not...becuase you just made another comment in the very post I am quoting as I type this about donation that makes absolutely zero sense.

A sperm donor has no parental rights over their offspring. That's part of the agreement. If the recpients want to see that donor out and make a connection...that's fine. Other than that, they have NO rights unless there is an agreement contracted between the recipients and the donor in addition to the contract with the bank.

You see gays saying they want to make decisions for their children. But how many of them do you see demanding to pay equal child support?

What? Tell us, ....how many do you see?

 

[ZaneNBK]

You kept telling us to read the article. The article is about two lesbians having a child, who was most likely conceived by use of DONOR SPERM, which is why we're saying the other biological parent, THE DONOR, has no rights.

Also, this comment posted in response to the article indicates that in NY now there can be two mothers listed on the birth certificate:

RILEYSMAMA 20 HOURS AGO
I am confused by this article. I am a lesbian and live in upstate NY. My wife and I have a one year old daughter who was conceived through donor sperm. Our daughter is biologically related to only me but since we are legally married, my wife was listed as a second mother on our daughter's birth certificate. In NY there is the option to list a second mother instead of a father and it costs nothing. This has been the case for at least the last year. As far as I know there is no concern that another state will refuse to honor her birth certificate especially since it does not specify which one of us gave birth to her.

 

[Texashiker]

See. Nobody is avoiding your questions. You keep changing what you want this thread to be about.

How many times do I have to repeat myself, this thread is not about donation.

This thread "is" about parental rights.

What? Tell us, ....how many do you see?

That question was for eskimospy.

You kept telling us to read the article. The article is about two lesbians having a child, who was most likely conceived by use of DONOR SPERM, which is why we're saying the other biological parent, THE DONOR, has no rights.

You are assuming the use of a donor.

Since the article did not talk about it, lets discuss it. What about parental rights? Who should get them and when?

 

[ZaneNBK]

You are assuming the use of a donor.

Since the article did not talk about it, lets discuss it. What about parental rights? Who should get them and when?

She is a lesbian, a donor is the obvious assumption. However, ignoring that, replace the donor with a one night stand as you suggest in the OP. In that situation typically the woman decides whether or not to try and involve the biological father at that point if he's unaware of the pregnancy. Say she does let him know and he decides he wants to be part of the child's life. My understanding is that usually that's still up to the biological mother as they're not in a relationship.

Even in the case where the biological parents are married and get divorced, women are usually given custody of the child if they seek it in most states. I can't see the biological father having any chance at obtaining parental rights in this situation, especially if the mother is married.

My understanding of the law is that for all intents and purposes her current partner would be legally considered the parent (if born while they were married and that's what they both wanted). If the child was born before marriage I believe the non-biological parent needs to perform an adoption to obtain the same parental rights as the mother. In either situation the yes, after a divorce the partner will probably be liable for child support.

I believe this is the legal situation in most places and I also agree with it morally. Sleeping with someone doesn't give you the right to a child 9 months down the road when you are not and haven't been in a relationship with the biological mother. Being in a relationship with the mother or at least having an agreement with her to be in the child's life is what gives you parental rights. That puts most the power in the women's corner, yes, but she's the one that goes through the pregnancy and gives birth to the child.

The laws vary from state to state though, if you want to debate the legal aspect of it go to a law forum. I'm not even sure why this is in P&N and not Discussion Club since what you want to discuss doesn't really have much of anything to do with the article.

 

[Texashiker]

what you want to discuss doesn't really have much of anything to do with the article.

The article talked about the other woman having to adopt the child.

My questions is who should receive parental rights and why?

Some other issues,

Are birth certificates setup for 3 people?

Why should someone who has no biological connection to the child be granted parental rights at birth? This can happen to heterosexual couples as well. 5 years later the parent claims its not their child, should they be allowed to walk away?

 

[nageov3t]

The article talked about the other woman having to adopt the child.

My questions is who should receive parental rights and why?

Some other issues,

Are birth certificates setup for 3 people?

Why should someone who has no biological connection to the child be granted parental rights at birth?

what would be your ideal scenario?

 

[Texashiker]

what would be your ideal scenario?

I honestly do not know.

If a married couple wishes to list both as a parent, that is fine with me. But where does that leave the biological parent?

It is not that much different the current blended families.

 

[Zxian]

Let's recap for a moment.

You wanted to talk about "gays and having children." Everyone here understands that you require genetic material from one male and one female to conceive a child. In the case of gays, you'll need a third-party to provide the opposite sex's genetic material. This immediately makes it a question about donation, adoption, and/or surrogate rights of the biological parent that is not part of the relationship. By signing the donor/adoption/surrogate contract, they void all rights to the child. Full stop. End of story. End of discussion. You want to keep avoiding this simple fact that already is present in law and society for many years.

What other rights or questions do you have about this scenario? How is my example above any different than what already happens today with heterosexual couples?

Why should anyone who adopts a child be given parental rights over a child? By giving up a child for adoption, the biological parents give up all rights to that child. This already happens today. You're acting as though giving gays the same rights (and responsibilities) of parenting is suddenly a new topic.

You keep mentioning the rights of the biological parents (i.e. the donors or surrogates). Why was your topic title not "Donors/Surrogates and having children"? Please tell me what homosexuality has to do with the topic.

 

[Soundmanred]

Thread is not about living arrangements, gay, straight, married, single,,, all of that is irrelevant.

 

[pcgeek11]

How would it any different than a parent remarrying and their new spouse has parental rights.

I don't think that they do "in most states" unless the actual Biological Parent gives up the rights and they adopt the child.

Granted this could vary by state...

 

[BlueWolf47]

What is the point of this thread.

 

[brycejones]

What is the point of this thread.

For OP to go full incorruptible it seems.

 

[BlueWolf47]

For OP to go full incorruptible it seems.

I guess this proves ignorance is contagious.

 

[dank69]

I honestly do not know.

If a married couple wishes to list both as a parent, that is fine with me. But where does that leave the biological parent?

It is not that much different the current blended families.

Ah, finally you admit that you are either very stupid or you are trolling because the addition of "gay" to the topic makes zero difference. Good. Now, can you tell us which one it is?

 

[SheHateMe]

He just wanted to pretend to be concerned for gays when this thread was really about how confusing it would be for a child to have two gay parents.