Gay student almost misses prom due to dress code

[mikeymikec]

Given that I've heard gay people use both words to describe each other, sure. In my mind it's no more a slur than me calling a person with an English accent a "Brit".https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o25I2fzFGoY

Re: The gay slurs you used - AFAIK it's about as appropriate for you to use them as it is for a white person to throw around the N-word. Not at all like the term "Brit", AFAIK (though I wouldn't just label any Scots person as a Brit for two reasons, one being I'm British myself and that would just be weird, two because some Scottish people resent their country being part of the UK).

The odd thing IMO about your stance on this particular point is that if I were in your shoes and I had been told several times that a term I used was a slur, I'd check my facts on that point rather than throwing the term around a few more times.

 

[K1052]

Or calling my ancestors "mics". It's just descriptive slang, nothing more. Whether it's a slur or not depends entirely on context.
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"mick" is broadly considered a derogatory term for the Irish. While people who are Irish may use the term inside their community as slang (not uncommon in various ethnic cultures) outsiders using it on them is an entirely different deal. You're right that context matters even though you seemingly don't really appreciate in what context certain people could use those terms without offense. Mikeymikec's example of the n-word is a perfect illustration.

<---halfirishK1052

 

[BoberFett]

Someone could call me a Kraut Mick mongrel and I wouldn't care. Why would I? Stick and stones and all that.

People get offended because they want to get offended; they're looking for any reason to get offended. The US is now a culture based almost entirely on outrage.

 

[Subyman]

Given that I've heard gay people use both words to describe each other, sure. In my mind it's no more a slur than me calling a person with an English accent a "Brit". Or some foreigner calling me a "Yank". Or calling my ancestors "mics". It's just descriptive slang, nothing more. Whether it's a slur or not depends entirely on context.

But I just got an infraction for it, so in future posts I will abide by forum rules. I'll just leave this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o25I2fzFGoY

Yes, they use those words. The reason is because those that are targeted by the slurs have taken the slurs, used them themselves and hence, rendered them meaningless. They use them from a place of trivializing the hate tied to the word, but you use them in a traditional sense. That is why it is a slur when a non-gay person uses them to describe a gay person. Complicated perhaps.

 

[shortylickens]

Did she know about the rule? Did every student know about the rule? Was it posted well in advance?

Sounds to me like they didnt make her miss prom. Sounds like she was trying to do a political statement and got herself into a situation.


In high school they still get to tell you what to do and how to do it.
When you leave you're free and your life is your own.

 

[norseamd]

LOL, I suppose the phrase; "light in the loafers", has no meaning to you either.

Nope.

 

[K1052]

Did she know about the rule? Did every student know about the rule? Was it posted well in advance?

Sounds to me like they didnt make her miss prom. Sounds like she was trying to do a political statement and got herself into a situation.


In high school they still get to tell you what to do and how to do it.
When you leave you're free and your life is your own.

Conservatives here have claimed that non-obscene clothing is a 1st Amendment protected right for students under a reasonableness test. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[hal2kilo]

Funny I have not actually heard this slur or least it is not of significance for me to remember. Not that I am debating whether or not it is a slur just funny I have not heard much of the word.

You must be younger. Queer. Fairy, or i love you were the terms I grew up with. I thnk I might have heard the term Gay for the first time in like 1970.

 

[norseamd]

That's because you never leave your house. You don't work, go to school or socialize. How could you know anything about society when you don't contribute to society?

You know you seem to be fucking attracted to my ass or something with how much you focus on me. Go fuck yourself.

Speaking of which why are you talking to me about shit?

My dad left us, so I was raised by my mom and grandma, I got married, had a kid, wife was a flake, and drank too much, I got custody, mom and grandma pretty much raised my son for me, I got depressed and got a couple DUI's and now I'm court ordered to go to AA, did I mention my company has a regional jet, and I get to go to CES?

 

[norseamd]

You must be younger. Queer. Fairy, or i love you were the terms I grew up with. I thnk I might have heard the term Gay for the first time in like 1970.

Queer and i love you are obviously well known to me. But those are obviously well used today so that is why. I am 27.

 

[shortylickens]

Conservatives here have claimed that non-obscene clothing is a 1st Amendment protected right for students under a reasonableness test. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Schools have rules.
Outside school you are free.

 

[irishScott]

"mick" is broadly considered a derogatory term for the Irish. While people who are Irish may use the term inside their community as slang (not uncommon in various ethnic cultures) outsiders using it on them is an entirely different deal. You're right that context matters even though you seemingly don't really appreciate in what context certain people could use those terms without offense. Mikeymikec's example of the n-word is a perfect illustration.

<---halfirishK1052

I consciously don't appreciate it. To use the n-word as an example, I've accepted that as a white male I'll never be able to use the n-word to describe a black person in any context because people will reflexively see racism where there isn't any, and the word serves no other descriptive use anyway unless you take the Chris Rock interpretation.

"Fairy" on the other hand describes a specific type of gay person, and I feel it's completely irrational that "ostentatiously feminine gay male" is fine but "fairy" in the same context is apparently considered a high offense. Frankly it makes the person taking offense look childish and insecure IMO. Perhaps I should have phrased my statements in this thread better, but according to the PM I got I'm barred from using the word in even a dry, descriptive context.

We'll know we're truly past these issues as a culture when people stop giving a shit. In the meantime I'm (at least on AT) socially forbidden from saying certain words simply because I'm a white, straight male; because that apparently makes snap judgments perfectly acceptable. 🙄

 

[irishScott]

Yes, they use those words. The reason is because those that are targeted by the slurs have taken the slurs, used them themselves and hence, rendered them meaningless. They use them from a place of trivializing the hate tied to the word, but you use them in a traditional sense. That is why it is a slur when a non-gay person uses them to describe a gay person. Complicated perhaps.

And therein lies the issue, I use them in a descriptive sense with no prejudice whatsoever. The hate is attached by those hearing the word, and speaking for my statements it doesn't exist outside of the listeners' heads.

 

[Brainonska511]

Schools have rules.
Outside school you are free.

Schools have rules, but they do not have unlimited rule-making capacity, especially in light of all the first amendment cases involving free speech in schools.

 

[WelshBloke]

Or calling my ancestors "mics".

Yeah.

I can think of a few pubs that you wouldn't get out of without serious injury if you started calling random strangers 'mick' or 'paddy' based on their accent.

Just FYI and general safety.

 

[mikeymikec]

Yeah.

I can think of a few pubs that you wouldn't get out of without serious injury if you started calling random strangers 'mick' or 'paddy' based on their accent.

Just FYI and general safety.

Though I wonder if there's a difference here between being a British person using terms like that and any other nationality, ie. "former oppressor" (British), as opposed to "probably not intending to be offensive yet still a fucking ignorant twat" (other).

Still, I wouldn't advise testing that theory 🙂

 

[norseamd]

What words for Scandinavians and Nordics besides Oaf and Squarehead?

 

[shortylickens]

Schools have rules, but they do not have unlimited rule-making capacity, especially in light of all the first amendment cases involving free speech in schools.

No one said they were unlimited.

But they do have the power to limit some of your constitutional rights, none of which are absolute or infinite by the way.
If I wore a Nazi or KKK shirt to school I would not only be told to go home, I'd probably get suspension and some kind of actual punishment. Thats because school is mostly a place for learning and to facilitate that, they have more rules than the outside world.

 

[shortylickens]

What words for Scandinavians and Nordics besides Oaf and Squarehead?

I grew up in Minnesota and never heard squarehead until I watched Deadwood.
Oaf is one of those silly little insults that nobody knows was originally a racial slur.

 

[norseamd]

I grew up in Minnesota and never heard squarehead until I watched Deadwood.

Neither did I until I read it some years ago on the internet. But my head is giant and stout so I actually take the slur with pride since it is actually beneficial to have a huge head.

 

[Brainonska511]

No one said they were unlimited.

But they do have the power to limit some of your constitutional rights, none of which are absolute or infinite by the way.
If I wore a Nazi or KKK shirt to school I would not only be told to go home, I'd probably get suspension and some kind of actual punishment. Thats because school is mostly a place for learning and to facilitate that, they have more rules than the outside world.

Yeah, because those things are disruptive to the educational mission of the school. However, you'd have a hard time that a woman wearing a tuxedo at a prom is also going to be disruptive to that educational mission.

 

[jhbball]

Someone could call me a Kraut Mick mongrel and I wouldn't care. Why would I? Stick and stones and all that.

People get offended because they want to get offended; they're looking for any reason to get offended. The US is now a culture based almost entirely on outrage.

"nothing offends me!" -a white male

 

[irishScott]

Yeah.

I can think of a few pubs that you wouldn't get out of without serious injury if you started calling random strangers 'mick' or 'paddy' based on their accent.

Just FYI and general safety.

Oh I know. I'm just saying that reaction would be kinda dumb, especially if I wasn't using the word offensively.

Here's the semi-conscious mental leaps involved for some bad words.

1: "That's a cool n*gger."
2: "Oh you must be like a slave master who hates black people!"
1: "No I was just saying he was cool guy.."
2: "YOU'RE WHITE!!! YOU SAID THE WORD!!! FUCKING RACIST!!!"

1: "Oh, that loudmouth cross-dressing fairy's screaming again, can he just shut up?"
2: "Oh, you must be some conservative christian who hates gay people!"
1: "No I was complaining about how he's obnoxious and in everyone's face all the time.."
2: "YOU JUST HATE GAY PEOPLE!!!"

Words are words are words. Whether they're offensive or not is all in whether they're meant offensively, but unfortunately taking people one at a time isn't as hard-coded into humanity as over-generalization. 😛

 

[fskimospy]

Someone could call me a Kraut Mick mongrel and I wouldn't care. Why would I? Stick and stones and all that.

People get offended because they want to get offended; they're looking for any reason to get offended. The US is now a culture based almost entirely on outrage.

Language frames how we see the world. There's a famous quote attributed to Charlemagne that says 'two have a second language is to have a second soul'.

Referring to groups of people in pejorative ways frames how we view them. It's nuts to pretend that doesn't matter and people shouldn't be bothered by it.

 

[irishScott]

"nothing offends me!" -a white male

"Something a white male said made me want to attack him, but someone with my skin tone saying the same thing is cool. I'm not racist." -A uneducated minority

White males are on top of the world in part because on the whole we have better things to do than get offended over race.