gay marriage question

would you issue or deny a marriage permit to this couple?

  • yes

  • no


Results are only viewable after voting.

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
An honest question, primarily for those who oppose gay marriage, but also open for supporters who want to give a thoughtful answer that honors the terms of the question.

Situation: You are in a state where gay marriage is not currently legal. A couple is looking to be married where one of the persons either has undergone sex reassignment therapy, or intends to shortly. Would you grant or deny the marriage license, and what would your rationale be?


Follow up question: Would your answer change depending on whether the partners were of the same or opposite sex before the surgery.

Note: having difficulty updating poll, vote YES if you would issue marriage license.
 
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HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,027
3
76
Your poll is confusing, "Would you do A or B" "answer1: Yes, Answer2: No"

Aside from that, I'd give them a marriage licence, but I'm pro-gay marriage so my answer is probably not what you are looking for.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Your poll is confusing, "Would you do A or B" "answer1: Yes, Answer2: No"

Aside from that, I'd give them a marriage licence, but I'm pro-gay marriage so my answer is probably not what you are looking for.

Point taken. I'm having difficulties updating poll, so vote YES if you would issue marriage license, NO if you would deny.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,027
3
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Point taken. I'm having difficulties updating poll, so vote YES if you would issue marriage license, NO if you would deny.

That's what I did, you can't edit the poll so I'd just mention that in the OP if I were you.
 

dmw16

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2000
7,608
0
0
Sure would, but I don't have an issue with gay marriage. I really fail to see why people have a problem with gay marriage.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,667
2,423
126
A person doesn't issue a marriage license in their own authority, they are acting for the State. Their power to so act is specifically set forth by the applicable statutes. The answer to your question is that the person MUST do what the applicable statutes say, regardless of their personal beliefs. If their beliefs so conflict with the responsibilities of their office that they feel they cannot perform the obligations of that office, then they must resign.

The only real exception is where the officeholder feels the statutes are unconstitutional and/or are illegal under a superior civil law. Then he or she may take whatever steps are necessary to have that constitutionality/legality tested in the courts.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,027
3
76
A person doesn't issue a marriage license in their own authority, they are acting for the State. Their power to so act is specifically set forth by the applicable statutes. The answer to your question is that the person MUST do what the applicable statutes say, regardless of their personal beliefs. If their beliefs so conflict with the responsibilities of their office that they feel they cannot perform the obligations of that office, then they must resign.

The only real exception is where the officeholder feels the statutes are unconstitutional and/or are illegal under a superior civil law. Then he or she may take whatever steps are necessary to have that constitutionality/legality tested in the courts.

I think he's talking hypothetically. I.e. if you had the capacity to choose, then how would you act.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,422
7,482
136
If they are still legally both sexes at the time, then there's no choice but to say yes. I suppose it's even difficult to decide afterwards, except if the law recognizes a sex change and then the marriage is no longer possible or valid?

:hmm: Quite a problem there. Default is yes.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
A sex change operation isn't really a sex change operation.

A guy does not become female because he chops his penis off. He is still a guy, just one that looks like a female.

So if you live in a state where gay marriage is illegal I would not issue the license.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,560
8
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I think all marriage should be a religious institution only with NO LEGAL benefits till everyone can get equal treatment under the law.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,303
15
81
I think any two consenting adults should be able to marry if they wish. Who am I to say they can't? I'm also in favor of group marriage arrangements, provided there are equitable legal frameworks set up between all parties involved (i.e. inheritance rights, etc.) ..
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,352
11
0
How about this "hypothetical"?

A gay foreign exchange student comes to study in the US on a student visa. While studying here, said student gets married which is legal in their state to a US citizen. However, DOMA prevents the federal government from recognizing their marriage and acts to deports the foreign exchange student after the visa expires.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
3
0
You should be able to marry your pet rock if you want to IMO. I'd be mildly disgusted but I'd give it to them.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,865
10
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A sex change operation isn't really a sex change operation.

A guy does not become female because he chops his penis off. He is still a guy, just one that looks like a female.

So if you live in a state where gay marriage is illegal I would not issue the license.

:rolleyes:
 

jhu

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
11,918
9
81
A sex change operation isn't really a sex change operation.

A guy does not become female because he chops his penis off. He is still a guy, just one that looks like a female.

So if you live in a state where gay marriage is illegal I would not issue the license.

So now the question becomes: what do you define as "male" and what do you define as "female"? Consider a genetic XY individual, who under normal circumstances would be a male. However, this individual has androgen insensitivity syndrome, and therefore lools like a female. How would you resolve this person's marriage to another man or to another woman?
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
2
0
A sex change operation isn't really a sex change operation.

A guy does not become female because he chops his penis off. He is still a guy, just one that looks like a female.

So if you live in a state where gay marriage is illegal I would not issue the license.

A couple things about which you're ignorant:

- Sex reassignment therapy != "chopping the penis off".
- Looks can be incredibly deceiving.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
A person doesn't issue a marriage license in their own authority, they are acting for the State. Their power to so act is specifically set forth by the applicable statutes. The answer to your question is that the person MUST do what the applicable statutes say, regardless of their personal beliefs. If their beliefs so conflict with the responsibilities of their office that they feel they cannot perform the obligations of that office, then they must resign.

The only real exception is where the officeholder feels the statutes are unconstitutional and/or are illegal under a superior civil law. Then he or she may take whatever steps are necessary to have that constitutionality/legality tested in the courts.
This. My preference is that the state not have the power to control whom we may or may not marry, but someone paid to issue marriage licenses needs to follow the law. As far as interpretation, whatever sex the state recognizes for the individuals at that moment controls their legal status at that moment; their future plans and past status are irrelevant.
 

finglobes

Senior member
Dec 13, 2010
739
0
0
There is no such thing as "sex reassignment". Peoples genes and chromosomes are not changed. Surgery just renders mutilated people pretending to be changed. Gender Identity Disorder still exists of course (political correctness hopes to fix that) and I see no reason to alter laws and institutions to accommodate disorders. The US is economically bankrupt and in an advanced state of societal decay. Its culture is debased, its borders are virtually collapsed, its population is dividing into tribal antagonisms, its youth indoctrinated into national and personal self hatred. Normal marriage long ago became debased and portrayed as irrelevant ("just a piece of paper!"). Now the same people (libs) want to make marriage important again - but in mutational forms.


Not long ago I read Switzerland was looking to make incest legal and I am sure the libs in US will head the same way. Right now the Obama admin is even recruiting people with GID to adopt kids. So kids are getting sacrificed to disordered people to make them feel happy about themselves. Obama put LGBT activists in charge of children and families just as he put Kevin Jennings (Mr Fisting) in charge of school safety. This kind of thing just accelerates America's decline - which libs like anyway. Poor kids hardly have a chance in US culture these days.



HHS Official Tells Youth Summit: We're Recruiting LGBTs to Adopt Kids


http://cnsnews.com/news/article/hhs-official-teens-gov-t-lgbt-youth-summ
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
A couple things about which you're ignorant:

- Sex reassignment therapy != "chopping the penis off".
- Looks can be incredibly deceiving.
Can a man who has therapy have a baby?
Can a women who has therapy be the male father of a baby?
 

jhu

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
11,918
9
81
Can a man who has therapy have a baby?
Can a women who has therapy be the male father of a baby?

The ability to bear/father offspring is irrelevant to this discussion, unless you're willing to concede that sterile people should not be able to marry.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
What kind of question is this?

Would you issuie or deny ..... What is yes and what is no???

Ambiguous Question!

It is the Economy Stupid!

At this point Gay marriage is a stupid question. Who cares. All gay people want is free money and benefits for none of the responsibility of a real marriage.
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
So now the question becomes: what do you define as "male" and what do you define as "female"? Consider a genetic XY individual, who under normal circumstances would be a male. However, this individual has androgen insensitivity syndrome, and therefore lools like a female. How would you resolve this person's marriage to another man or to another woman?
I'm not sure if it's this syndrome or something else, but in parts of Mexico there are villages where a certain number of genetically male babies never express (or maybe use) male hormones and so grow up into apparent women. They tend to be very attractive and healthy, so this situation is not usually detected until the erstwhile woman proves unable to have normal intercourse because of a short vaginal canal. Typically this is after marriage. These persons self-identify as female, appear quite desirably female, and have been recorded as female from birth where, absent a genetic test, they are undetectable from a genetic female. They are however genetically male, although as females they are reasonably functional (short of bearing children) and as males they are completely non-functional, requiring major surgery to become even partially functional males such as female-to-male sex changes can become. There are also rare functional hermaphrodites who, if not detected and assigned one sex through surgery soon after birth, can function more or less as either sex.

I tend to think that people who have sex changes are usually nuts, but reality is occasionally neither as linear nor as binary as we might wish. Sometimes people don't fit neatly into one or the other classification.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Consenting adult + consenting adult = give them a marriage licence
 

brencat

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2007
2,170
3
76
If it's illegal in the state, the only way to not get in trouble is to base your decision off their sex at birth.

"Show me your birth certificates please."

On that basis, I would have to deny.