gay marriage question

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would you issue or deny a marriage permit to this couple?

  • yes

  • no


Results are only viewable after voting.

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
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Just because someone had their sex organs changed doesn't mean that's the only thing that's changed. Hormones play a factor too.

I'm aware of what chromosomes are and the role they play, regardless of how you want to deny or imply otherwise.

Yes, but there is still the old genetic factor they just cannot get around no matter how much surgery or hormones they take...

I didn't mean to imply or deny anything about what you do or do not know. I just cut out all the frills and lace down to the bare fact of genetics.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
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Yes, but there is still the old genetic factor they just cannot get around no matter how much surgery or hormones they take...

I didn't mean to imply or deny anything about what you do or do not know. I just cut out all the frills and lace down to the bare fact of genetics.

Of what relevance is genetics to the OP question or to the discussion that followed? We're not talking about biology, we're talking about actions of government. Without a requirement of genetic proof of gender from government, genetics are irrelevant to this particular discussion.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
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I am not the one saying what isn't a marriage or asking anyone to "shut up about it".

I agree. I never said that you were. You are very sensitive aren't you.

You said: You're not the authority on what a marriage is.

None of us are.


You said: You first. " We " will talk about what we want to talk about... and we don't give a damn if you have a problem with it.

Most people feel this way too even when they are saying things that you don't like.

The sword cuts both ways. Chill out.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,406
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Of what relevance is genetics to the OP question or to the discussion that followed? We're not talking about biology, we're talking about actions of government. Without a requirement of genetic proof of gender from government, genetics are irrelevant to this particular discussion.

Here is the original post:

An honest question, primarily for those who oppose gay marriage, but also open for supporters who want to give a thoughtful answer that honors the terms of the question.

Situation: You are in a state where gay marriage is not currently legal. A couple is looking to be married where one of the persons either has undergone sex reassignment therapy, or intends to shortly. Would you grant or deny the marriage license, and what would your rationale be?

Follow up question: Would your answer change depending on whether the partners were of the same or opposite sex before the surgery.

Note: having difficulty updating poll, vote YES if you would issue marriage license.


Where does it say Government? Right it doesn't. It just says the state says gay marriage is not currently legal.

The OP includes a reference to sexual reassignment. Which my posts has everything to do with...

To be a male or female has everything to do with biology. Genetics are who you are, everything including sex. If you don't understand this you need to back away from the keyboard.

Are you saying that a man can go through sexual reassignment surgery, hormone replacement and bingo they are now a female? I say no. The genetics chromosomes says he is still a male.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
2
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Here is the original post:

An honest question, primarily for those who oppose gay marriage, but also open for supporters who want to give a thoughtful answer that honors the terms of the question.

Situation: You are in a state where gay marriage is not currently legal. A couple is looking to be married where one of the persons either has undergone sex reassignment therapy, or intends to shortly. Would you grant or deny the marriage license, and what would your rationale be?

Follow up question: Would your answer change depending on whether the partners were of the same or opposite sex before the surgery.

Note: having difficulty updating poll, vote YES if you would issue marriage license.


Where does it say Government? Right it doesn't. It just says the state says gay marriage is not currently legal.

The OP includes a reference to sexual reassignment. Which my posts has everything to do with...

To be a male or female has everything to do with biology. Genetics are who you are, everything including sex. If you don't understand this you need to back away from the keyboard.

Are you saying that a man can go through sexual reassignment surgery, hormone replacement and bingo they are now a female? I say no. The genetics chromosomes says he is still a male.

It asks if you would issue a marriage license. Marriage licenses are not issued by geneticists.. they're issued by governments.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,406
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They probably do, but I don't tell them to shut up.

Maybe not, but you could. Didn't you essentially tell him to shut up with this post:
" You first. "We" will talk about what we want to talk about... and we don't give a damn if you have a problem with it. "
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
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Maybe not, but you could. Didn't you essentially tell him to shut up with this post:
" You first. "We" will talk about what we want to talk about... and we don't give a damn if you have a problem with it. "

Only as a response to him telling others to shut up.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,406
4,525
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It asks if you would issue a marriage license. Marriage licenses are not issued by geneticists.. they're issued by governments.

He asked if I Would.

I don't work for the government.

If he wanted to say what you are saying he should have asked if " the government should issue a marriage license".

I would not issue a license, it is against the law in this imaginary state.

EDIT:

Biology has a great deal to do with either issuing a license or not if it is illegal in the state. Say they do not check the genetics and these two get married, later it is discovered that they are both men or women then the marriage is null and void and could cause some very bad things to happen. As they were not legally married the taxes they filed would be fraud, Insurance policies etc ... lots of things to consider.
 
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zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
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He asked if I Would.

I don't work for the government.

If he wanted to say what you are saying he should have asked if " the government should issue a marriage license".

Since you could only issue a marriage license if you were employed by the government, your response would have to be framed by the boundaries of government.

I would not issue a license, it is against the law in this imaginary state.

Right... so your reasoning should be based on that, not genetics.
 
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a777pilot

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2011
4,261
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According to the International Lesbian and Gay Association ILGA there are at least seven countries today which still retain capital punishment for homosexual behavior. All are predominately Muslim countries. They are: Afghanistan, Iran, Mauritania, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, and Yemen. The situation with regard to the United Arab Emirates (UAE) is unclear. The government of Uganda -- a predominately Christian country -- was considering a genocidal bill that would make certain types of same-sex sexual behavior capital offenses. However, they may have shelved the bill as of 2011-MAR.
 

a777pilot

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2011
4,261
21
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http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_isla2.htm

"Sodomy is one of the most gruesome and detested crimes, the punishment for do so is also one of the harshest penalties, it is the capital punishment....The punishment is obviously hard, but the crime is of a harder effect on the society if the culprits are let go unpunished. They should not be allowed to live in society, for the epidemic they could spread is overwhelming. Imagine a society with a bunch of sodomites living in it. It will be a society without chastity, morality of virtue, because these values will be executed and killed. Certainly, executing these sick and dangerous sodomites is much better and safer for the society than executing morality, chastity and virtue."

"Some people claim that a sodomite is genetic, but this is wrong. A sodomite is an evil habit, like alcohol. It can start as a trail and experiment and then turn into addiction and disease."
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
2
0
According to the International Lesbian and Gay Association ILGA there are at least seven countries today which still retain capital punishment for homosexual behavior. All are predominately Muslim countries. They are: Afghanistan, Iran, Mauritania, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, and Yemen. The situation with regard to the United Arab Emirates (UAE) is unclear. The government of Uganda -- a predominately Christian country -- was considering a genocidal bill that would make certain types of same-sex sexual behavior capital offenses. However, they may have shelved the bill as of 2011-MAR.


True. What does that have to do with this discussion, though?
 

a777pilot

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2011
4,261
21
81
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_isla2.htm

Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) has written:
"Homosexuality is a moral disorder. It is a moral disease, a sin and corruption... No person is born homosexual, just like no one is born a thief, a liar or murderer. People acquire these evil habits due to a lack of proper guidance and education."
 

a777pilot

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2011
4,261
21
81
Homosexuals have redefined sexual abuse of children as "natural and acceptable."
 

a777pilot

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2011
4,261
21
81
Homosexuality "is utterly contrary to every natural law of human and animal life, and counter to the morals, purposes and institutions of a procreative society."
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,406
4,525
136
Since you could only issue a marriage license if you were employed by the government, your response would have to be framed by the boundaries of government.



Right... so your reasoning should be based on that, not genetics.

It is based on the law: It is illegal in this state to get married if you are of the same sex. In order to Actually KNOW if they are the same sex genetics would have to be drawn into the mix as it is the only way to tell. Getting an operation and hormones doesn't change anything other than the appearance.
 

a777pilot

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2011
4,261
21
81
We as Muslims need to state unequivocally and unambiguously that homosexuality is a deviant behavior and that there is not even an iota of doubt that Islam condemns the behavior.