Gave windows 8 a proper try, still sucks

[ViRGE]

Better battery life? What does it actually do to achieve this and how much better is it?

MS did a few different things for Win8. The big one is clock coalescing, which gets rid of the fixed 16.6ms kernel tick and allows the CPU to sleep for longer periods of time. Meanwhile it also supports Intel's s0ix power states, which will be a big deal for Haswell and beyond in further reducing idle power consumption.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/11/08/building-a-power-smart-general-purpose-windows.aspx

There will also be side benefits for Metro apps. Metro has very limited multitasking capabilities, so most tasks get suspended when you move away from the program. So for tablets (and any other devices primarily using Metro apps), there will be very little background overhead.

 

[Maximilian]

Try reading reviews and info about Win8 on the web or using Win8 Pro for awhile rather then condemning it without reason.

Try reading the OP. I tried it, it sucks balls for desktop users.

Windows 8 on desktop is simply a tool to push MS's tablet and mobile ambitions.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Try reading the OP. I tried it, it sucks balls for desktop users.

Windows 8 on desktop is simply a tool to push MS's tablet and mobile ambitions.

So a more powerful task manager, faster startup, free xbox music streaming, consolidated contacts into people, live tiles (real time news, weather, stocks etc), and a smarter experience that actually knows how to handle merging folders is considered sucking?

Just because you don't like how Metro looks...in the real world that's sometimes called prejudice.

 

[augiem]

more powerful task manager, faster startup

These two are quite nice features, though startup less so considering I use sleep most of the time. Task manager is greatly improved. And I'm so happy to see the explorer back/up arrow come back after a 5 year hiatus. I'm still not sure how I feel about the ribbon in explorer... not bad I guess, though I rarely use it. I wish they had added tabs to explorer. QTTabbar has been a godsend.

Still, they're not enough to outweigh the negatives for me to use it on my main work machine. It would be nice if you could cherry pick the good features and leave behind the bad ones.

 

[Mem]

Try reading the OP. I tried it, it sucks balls for desktop users.

Windows 8 on desktop is simply a tool to push MS's tablet and mobile ambitions.

I disagree as always,Microsoft are trying to get a strong foothold and sales in the tablet and mobile sector so its not surprising they are trying to merge Win8 in that direction,remember DOS and how Windows got rid of that?


However Win8 is still decent for a desktop user,I spend most of my time in desktop mode in Win8 so can't see what you are complaining at,you get best of both worlds, new features,performance increases and you can even make desktop like Win7 if you want, so again saying no good for a desktop user is very wrong IMHO,you can avoid Metro which you seem to hate for the most part.

 

[Mem]

These two are quite nice features, though startup less so considering I use sleep most of the time. Task manager is greatly improved. And I'm so happy to see the explorer back/up arrow come back after a 5 year hiatus. I'm still not sure how I feel about the ribbon in explorer... not bad I guess, though I rarely use it. I wish they had added tabs to explorer. QTTabbar has been a godsend.

Still, they're not enough to outweigh the negatives for me to use it on my main work machine. It would be nice if you could cherry pick the good features and leave behind the bad ones.

What negatives are you talking about,mainly Metro?

 

[2is]

Try reading reviews and info about Win8 on the web or using Win8 Pro for awhile rather then condemning it without reason.

Practice what you preach about the whole reading thing and you'd know we have our reasons.

 

[augiem]

What negatives are you talking about,mainly Metro?

Yes, primarily Metro, as that accounts for the lion's share of visible functional changes from Windows 7 to 8 and it is heavily integrated into Windows all the way to the reset/power-off and some system settings. One example would be how my nearly 1,000 start menu items will be lumped into a 50 screen long horizontal scrolling screen on the all apps screen with no way to organize and categorize like I like (yes, I know there are alternatives), and quite a bunch of other things that would be fruitless to go into point by point. (I've done this before, it never leads anywhere because someone always gets into the discussion who is just trying to "win" what isn't even an argument.) There are some other issues I've found with system administration like no F8 to safe mode boot, but I have yet to discover all the changes to the back end of Windows 8.

 

[Mem]

Yes, primarily Metro, as that accounts for the lion's share of visible functional changes from Windows 7 to 8 and it is heavily integrated into Windows all the way to the reset/power-off and some system settings. One example would be how my nearly 1,000 start menu items will be lumped into a 50 screen long horizontal scrolling screen on the all apps screen with no way to organize and categorize like I like (yes, I know there are alternatives), and quite a bunch of other things that would be fruitless to go into point by point. (I've done this before, it never leads anywhere because someone always gets into the discussion who is just trying to "win" what isn't even an argument.) There are some other issues I've found with system administration like no F8 to safe mode boot, but I have yet to discover all the changes to the back end of Windows 8.

One thing I don't understand is some users are saying Win8 is not good as a desktop user,however you can make it like Win7 for example you can pin shortcuts to taskbar and desktop(we all done that in Win7) and even add Start button menu like what Win7 has via third party software.

Infact I use my Win8 more or less same way as I did in Win7 except for two things one is I've got use to not using Win7 type Start button(I use to pin my games on the Start menu button on Win7) now what I do is via Metro yes I know a few hate it however I'm now neutral towards it,anyway what I did was move all my game Metro tiles to a new column on there own in Metro and list them in alphabetical order and created a "Games" heading above them,you can do this for basically any Metro tiles so makes it very organized and easier to find things,in some ways Win8 is more flexible then Win7 and I could of not done that on Win7.

I think I 'm going to create another column in Metro for my software and have games and my software columns first in Metro,saves a bit of time scrolling etc...I could stick some on taskbar or desktop etc... but again there are always options in Win8.

I use my taskbar on Win8 same way as I did on Win7(habit you could say and to my liking) so again don't see what some desktop users are moaning about,I even have my Opera,WMC,Windows Explorer shortcuts etc on taskbar like I did on Win7.

Windows 8 shortcut win+X gives you most of the Start button options(you can also right click in left corner as most users know) so don't see that as a issue.


Last question how would you list your 1000 start menu items in Win7?


Think I try adding shutdown/restart to Win+X later, this is how to http://www.howtogeek.com/113775/add-shutdown-and-reboot-to-the-windows-8-winx-menu/

 

[yinan]

I wouldnt list the items in Win7, I would allow the Start menu search to find the program I want, all while maintaining visibility to my desktop.

Also, I want Aero back.

 

[zephxiii]

You guys can have the glass transparency back by selecting a custom color and turning transparency all the way down.

http://www.xti9.com/pics/transparency.png

 

[GnatGoSplat]

I agree with all the people who have listed reasons to not like Windows 8.
However, I will eventually switch to it anyway because I always have to be on the newest OS. It's a kind of OCD thing.

Anyway, I think I can live with Win8 after I've installed Start8, Sidebar, and changed group policy to remove the lock screen.

Last thing that would make me happy is a full Win7 Aero Glass theme. That transparency setting looks okay, but I want the rounded edges, reflective looking buttons, and reflective looking progress bars. Anyone know of a way to get the Win7 theme working, 3rd party or otherwise?

 

[Tom]

3rd party software isn't a good answer for the missing Start menu. It should be supplied and supported by Microsoft.

This isn't the first time MS has done this. XP came with fax capability, Vista dropped it. XP and Vista had email programs, Windows 7 drops it.

They should have added Metro to Windows, not replaced a UI that worked for people for years.

Its as stupid as Apple dropping Google Maps.

 

[BigTLoves]

3rd party software isn't a good answer for the missing Start menu. It should be supplied and supported by Microsoft.

This isn't the first time MS has done this. XP came with fax capability, Vista dropped it. XP and Vista had email programs, Windows 7 drops it.

They should have added Metro to Windows, not replaced a UI that worked for people for years.

Its as stupid as Apple dropping Google Maps.

yeah that is what i am saying i shouldnt need to install a 3rd party pos to have my OS function how i want MS should have done this for us after all we dont all have a touch screen or a table that we are running this on in fact i sit 7 feet away from my screen. I bet these people that are all about Windows 8 were also repping how amazing Windows Millennium Edition was when it was out too LOL!!!! Its ok to admit that your beloved Microsoft (who i like way better than apple) made a bad choice. I have hardly read anything where people actually like metro, most people say they DEAL with it or WORK AROUND it. If on a brand new product people are "dealing" with something or "working around" something then you made it wrong, its plain and simple. We shouldn't have to F-ing emulate touch screen with a freakin mouse, it is obviously made for a tablet and you guys keep fighting that it is not, at this point if you don't think that is the case then i question your mental capacity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4VtNLl6Ca4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyc1RVCXvAk&feature=related
http://www.itworld.com/software/224533/windows-8-10-biggest-problems-so-far?page=0,0

yeah looks like everyone just loves the shit out of it for desktops

 

[augiem]

so again don't see what some desktop users are moaning about

Your language "moaning" reveals a condescending attitude toward people who don't agree with you. It's always either that or "whining". Then will come the "afraid of change." I've been here 1,000 times. Not again, thanks.

One thing I don't understand is some users are saying Win8 is not good as a desktop user...

You are talking about favorites and how you organize them. That's all well and good. Yes, Metro is a favorites page. It's not designed to organize vast quantities of shortcuts and lacks any sorting other than manual (only on start page, not on all apps) or alphabetical (only on apps, not start page).

Last question how would you list your 1000 start menu items in Win7?

The same way I do in Vista. Nested folders in start menu. Every single thing goes under one of 5 main categories: Accessories, Applications, Development, Games, and Utilities. Subfolder beneath those further categorize into topics like Audio, Web, Design, System, etc.

Think I try adding shutdown/restart to Win+X later...

Yes, I know there are dozens of workarounds and hotkeys to get around everything. That speaks to the poor design that people have to always get around it for maximum efficiency. Yet more things I have to manually disable, learn a hotkey for, add a custom link for, etc. I've just come to accept this is part of using Windows, but that doesn't mean I like it.

3rd party software isn't a good answer for the missing Start menu. It should be supplied and supported by Microsoft.

Agree 100%. They've determined that the majority of users only need a favorites page. Their actual published justification for removing it was usage data that showed most users just clicked on the docked tabs in IE7 most of the time instead of using the start menu... Well, yeah you think? It's a FAVORITE so naturally they're going to click it more often. Majority = people who just use web, Skype, chat, occasionally Word, so the design goes their direction.

 

[Mem]

Your language "moaning" reveals a condescending attitude toward people who don't agree with you. It's always either that or "whining". Then will come the "afraid of change." I've been here 1,000 times. Not again, thanks.



You are talking about favorites and how you organize them. That's all well and good. Yes, Metro is a favorites page. It's not designed to organize vast quantities of shortcuts and lacks any sorting other than manual (only on start page, not on all apps) or alphabetical (only on apps, not start page).



The same way I do in Vista. Nested folders. Every single thing goes under one of 5 main categories: Accessories, Applications, Development, Games, Startup (required), and Utilities. Subfolder beneath those further categorize into topics like Audio, Web, Design, System, etc.



Yes, I know there are dozens of workarounds and hotkeys to get around everything. That speaks to the poor design that people have to always get around it. Yet more things I have to manually disable, learn a hotkey for, add a custom link for, etc. I've just come to accept this is part of using Windows.



Agree 100%.

I think some of the so called "moaning" is blown out of proportion,sure Win8 is a change but what do you expect from Microsoft exactly same OS as Win7,no they did a new OS for obvious reasons ,you say you want flexibility but can't be bothered to try the mods or W+X add-ons you can do.

For the record I've added shut down and restart,notepad to Win+X and Metro.
I've my Metro in categories too,Main,Games,My software,Win 8 applications etc...all the desktop suff is obviously on taskbar etc... so saves me going to Metro unless I need something from it.


For the record its not that people disagreeing with me is the problem,its some people don't like change or willing to learn or adjust ,happened in every Microsoft OS released and it will happen in Win9 mark my words.
End of the day no OS is perfect and you have to make some sacrifices now and then,if you don't like Win8 fine stick to Win7 nobody is forcing you to use it.

Btw you might not believe this but DOS 6.22 was my favorite OS decades ago,even I had to face change that Windows was the future and as we all know even Windows is changing over time.

I think we are not going to agree on this one which is fine,everybody has and is entitled to their own opinions.

 

[pmv]

You are talking about favorites and how you organize them. That's all well and good. Yes, Metro is a favorites page. It's not designed to organize vast quantities of shortcuts and lacks any sorting other than manual (only on start page, not on all apps) or alphabetical (only on apps, not start page).
...
The same way I do in Vista. Nested folders in start menu. Every single thing goes under one of 5 main categories: Accessories, Applications, Development, Games, and Utilities. Subfolder beneath those further categorize into topics like Audio, Web, Design, System, etc.

Yes, I know there are dozens of workarounds and hotkeys to get around everything. That speaks to the poor design that people have to always get around it for maximum efficiency. Yet more things I have to manually disable, learn a hotkey for, add a custom link for, etc. I've just come to accept this is part of using Windows, but that doesn't mean I like it.

Yeah, while I'm still completely unsure whether to go for 7 or 8 (from XP!) this is starting to sound like the deal-breaker for 8. Why oh why couldn't they include something more like the Start menu, above all the ability to have sorted, folder-nested, shortcuts organised in a sensible fashion?

Because it does sound, from what I've read, that there are worthwhile improvements beneath the UI, plus a few bits of the UI that are actually _better_ in 8. And a lot of the metro stuff that I have no interest in is, it seems, quite easy to just ignore.

But to get then good bits you have to accept a ridiculously clumsy method of organising your programs and system options. A method which actually brings up dim memories of Windows 3.1.

Oh, and as I never used vista/7 I've spent all this time thinking one day I'll get to get cheap superficial pleasure out of the pointless but cool-looking 3d/transparency desktop effects, only to find by the time I'm ready to upgrade they've taken them out again!

(Though I _have_ used the vaguely similar effects in Ubuntu at least!)

 

[augiem]

Yeah, while I'm still completely unsure whether to go for 7 or 8 (from XP!) this is starting to sound like the deal-breaker for 8. Why oh why couldn't they include something more like the Start menu, above all the ability to have sorted, folder-nested, shortcuts organised in a sensible fashion?

While they don't include an effective means, you have at least three options for organization apart from Metro:
#1 http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/ - Mimics Windows 7 start menu or shows a shrunken version of Metro. Costs $5.
#2 http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/ - Mimics Windows XP start menu. Free. You might be more comfortable with this one considering its like XP. (I still use the classic start menu on Vista as well, but they removed that from Windows 7.)
#3 Make a shortcut on your desktop to the start menu directory on your hard disk and double click the folder to see the contents.

Oh, and as I never used vista/7 I've spent all this time thinking one day I'll get to get cheap superficial pleasure out of the pointless but cool-looking 3d/transparency desktop effects, only to find by the time I'm ready to upgrade they've taken them out again!

Hehe. Well, it wasn't that big of a deal anyway IMO. I don't think it adds or detracts much from the experience. I wouldn't recommend worrying about this one in your decision of which to choose as you can always get a theme. Windows 8 desktop doesn't look that bad to me. I almost don't even notice the difference from Win 7 actually. Guess it's just a matter of taste.

 

[cmdrdredd]

How to create a folder and put app shortcuts in the Windows 8 start menu. It works, for those of you familiar with Steam you know it doesn't create a start menu folder by itself (at least I know for sure it does not when you install on a secondary drive). However, I created a folder called Valve with a steam shortcut inside it. So you could create a folder called Games and put shortcuts to every game you have installed there. If you click the little minus sign near the bottom right (along side the scroll bar) you bring up an alphabet and you can simply click the letter that corrosponds to the folder or app you're looking for. Or type the name of the folder in the search bar and it will pull it up.

There are one or two ways. What I did, was entered, in Windows explorer,
Programdata - Microsoft - Windows - Start menu - Programs.
There I created my folders (My example - Entertainment - Office - Internet - Photo. etc..)
Each of these I right clicked and pinned to the start menu. I then dragged my programs into the appropriate folder.
You can also arrange you shortcuts into the required groups. Click the small minus sign, bottom right.
In the small picture you then see, right click each group and you will have an option n to name the group(s)

 

[joe_H]

I haven't seen it mentioned much, so I'll bring up another 3rd party solution:

StartIsBack

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/158666-start-is-back-beta-4/

The author has apparently injected Windows 7 explorer code back into 8, and the computer boots up to the desktop, with the normal Win7 Start button. Metro still functions, but in the background, and can be called up with CTRL+WIN key if needed.

Tried it out on a Win8 VM install. Looks very clean.

 

[augiem]

How to create a folder and put app shortcuts in the Windows 8 start menu.

You can also do it directly in the Start Menu folder in your users profile and the changes will be reflected in the "all apps" page. But all folders are open at all times, so if you have hundreds it can be overwhelming.

 

[augiem]

I haven't seen it mentioned much, so I'll bring up another 3rd party solution:

StartIsBack

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/158666-start-is-back-beta-4/

The author has apparently injected Windows 7 explorer code back into 8, and the computer boots up to the desktop, with the normal Win7 Start button. Metro still functions, but in the background, and can be called up with CTRL+WIN key if needed.

Tried it out on a Win8 VM install. Looks very clean.

Thanks for that link! I didn't know about that one.

 

[cmdrdredd]

You can also do it directly in the Start Menu folder in your users profile. But all folders are open at all times.

The convenience of adding a shortcut to the start menu is that I can open the start menu and type the name of the folder and it pops up. press enter and I can see the contents. Good for someone with an Anime collection. Also can just type part of an app name and it pops up.

I never scroll the menu anymore, just type what I want to find so having everything open doesn't mean much for my usage. It looks bad at first but it's a lot simpler than it seems.

 

[augiem]

you say you want flexibility but can't be bothered to try the mods or W+X add-ons you can do.

Did I say I didn't/won't try the mods? I specifically said I accepted this fact about using an MS OS, didn't I? Don't read between the lines.

For the record its not that people disagreeing with me is the problem,its some people don't like change or willing to learn or adjust ,happened in every Microsoft OS released and it will happen in Win9 mark my words.

And here it is. The old "afraid of change" line I mentioned. That's the easiest way to end a discussion. It invalidates the other party's opinions, observations, and experience in one quick, easy to say phrase and blows off everything they said because all of it was clearly nothing more than excuses and spinning trying to justify their fear of change. Okay, I'm done. Why do I keep getting baited into these types of "discussions"?

 

[Mem]

Did I say I didn't/won't try the mods? I specifically said I accepted this fact about using an MS OS, didn't I? Don't read between the lines.



And here it is. The old "afraid of change" line I mentioned. That's the easiest way to end a discussion. It invalidates the other party's opinions, observations, and experience in one quick, easy to say phrase and blows off everything they said because all of it was clearly nothing more than excuses and spinning trying to justify their fear of change. Okay, I'm done. Why do I keep getting baited into these types of "discussions"?

I don't know why you are getting upset,I thought we was having a friendly debate,btw the point about change was not referring to you specifically but some of the other members,give you an example here from a different forum,

I installed W8 on Monday onto my main PC and lasted around 30 mins before I went back to W7. Not for me and though I appreciate 30 mins is not enough time to work with it and seriously evaluate it I simply don't have the time or inclination to learn something new that seems to add little value to me.

My point is I've seen lots of posts like that from all over the place where people can't be bothered to learn new things or even give it more time,sad in a way.

Anyway hope this clears up that little matter.