"Gas Tax Holiday" - Can anyone name the benefits?

[rchiu]

30 buck to you elitists or professors/economist sitting in ivory towers may not mean much, but to some blue collar workers, truck drivers, who are already pinched by the high fuel, food and everything else price, it is better then nothing.

And I do not agree the 18 cents will increase gas consumption or go to the pocket of oil company. I believe it will stay in consumer's pocket. First of all, gas is very inelastic. You either need it or you don't. Especially at this time when gas price is extremely high already, 18 cents cheaper at today's price still make gas price close to historical high, so it's unlike that people will go out and buy bunch more just because it's 18 cents cheaper. Second, oil company already faces lots of scrutiny because of the profit they make. Pocketing measely 18 cents won't help profit a lot but will be a huge PR nightmare. There is no incentive for them to do that.

Again, 18 cents may not mean alot to those in top 40% income group, but it will help middle and lower income who are hit hard by the gas and food prices. Clinton has been consistent in her message in helping the middle and lower income people and that's what she is trying to get at.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: rchiu
30 buck to you elitists or professors/economist sitting in ivory towers may not mean much, but to some blue collar workers, truck drivers, who are already pinched by the high fuel, food and everything else price, it is better then nothing.

And I do not agree the 18 cents will increase gas consumption or go to the pocket of oil company. I believe it will stay in consumer's pocket. First of all, gas is very inelastic. You either need it or you don't. Especially at this time when gas price is extremely high already, 18 cents cheaper at today's price still make gas price close to historical high, so it's unlike that people will go out and buy bunch more just because it's 18 cents cheaper. Second, oil company already faces lots of scrutiny because of the profit they make. Pocketing measely 18 cents won't help profit a lot but will be a huge PR nightmare. There is no incentive for them to do that.

Again, 18 cents may not mean alot to those in top 40% income group, but it will help middle and lower income who are hit hard by the gas and food prices. Clinton has been consistent in her message in helping the middle and lower income people and that's what she is trying to get at.

And what if the gas companies raise prices to offset the price cut:laugh:? In the end, the government loses revenue and customers gain nothing.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: M0RPH
What you people fail to acknowledge is that Hillary's gas tax plan is predicated on the assumption that it will be paid for by the oil companies in the form of a windfall profits tax. So, let's assume for a moment that this is in fact how it will be paid for. How is this bad for anyone to get a discount on gas paid for by the oil companies who have been raping us?

And while an average driver may only save $30 a week on average, for truck drivers and certain small businesses who are really being crunched by gas prices, this would help them in a significant way. And again, if the oil companies are going to pay for it, why not? You may argue that she is full of crap and that a windfall tax on oil companies would never happen, but that is not an argument against her proposal itself, it's an argument about whether she'd be able to get it passed.

$30 *over the summer*, assuming gas prices comes down at all. About $.25 per gallon. The subsequent 'windfall profits tax' would have the effect of contracting supply, and probably lead to higher prices.

This is a net loss for almost everyone involved

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: Dari
What's the point if the gas stations just raise the price to offset their lost?

Why would gas stations be losing anything with this? Their profit will remain the same, they didn't get any of that 18 cents tax anyway. They will be selling more gas so they stand to gain from this, without any need to raise prices.

You can argue that oil companies will lose money and may try to raise prices. However, with the attitude of people towards oil companies the way it is presently, I think they would have to be very careful about trying to offset those costs with arbitrary price increases. There would be a huge backlash against the oil companies if this were to happen, and I don't see oil companies trying to pull something like this.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: rchiu
30 buck to you elitists or professors/economist sitting in ivory towers may not mean much, but to some blue collar workers, truck drivers, who are already pinched by the high fuel, food and everything else price, it is better then nothing.

And I do not agree the 18 cents will increase gas consumption or go to the pocket of oil company. I believe it will stay in consumer's pocket. First of all, gas is very inelastic. You either need it or you don't. Especially at this time when gas price is extremely high already, 18 cents cheaper at today's price still make gas price close to historical high, so it's unlike that people will go out and buy bunch more just because it's 18 cents cheaper. Second, oil company already faces lots of scrutiny because of the profit they make. Pocketing measely 18 cents won't help profit a lot but will be a huge PR nightmare. There is no incentive for them to do that.

Again, 18 cents may not mean alot to those in top 40% income group, but it will help middle and lower income who are hit hard by the gas and food prices. Clinton has been consistent in her message in helping the middle and lower income people and that's what she is trying to get at.

:roll:

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Dari
What's the point if the gas stations just raise the price to offset their lost?

Why would gas stations be losing anything with this? Their profit will remain the same, they didn't get any of that 18 cents tax anyway. They will be selling more gas so they stand to gain from this, without any need to raise prices.

You can argue that oil companies will lose money and may try to raise prices. However, with the attitude of people towards oil companies the way it is presently, I think they would have to be very careful about trying to offset those costs with arbitrary price increases. There would be a huge backlash against the oil companies if this were to happen, and I don't see oil companies trying to pull something like this.

Yeah, HUGE backlash... because it's not like gas prices aren't already up 65 cents since mid-February.

 

[OrByte]

hehehe because we all know Oil companies operate altruistically and with the well being of consumers at the forefront of thier fuel pricing strategy.

give me a break.

If there is an method for Oil companies to exploit any "tax relief" this summer they will do so. And if over 100 economists agree that there is the oppportunity for gas companies to make money off of this scheme then we outta be thinking twice about embracing such reckless policy.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: rchiu
30 buck to you elitists or professors/economist sitting in ivory towers may not mean much, but to some blue collar workers, truck drivers, who are already pinched by the high fuel, food and everything else price, it is better then nothing.

And I do not agree the 18 cents will increase gas consumption or go to the pocket of oil company. I believe it will stay in consumer's pocket. First of all, gas is very inelastic. You either need it or you don't. Especially at this time when gas price is extremely high already, 18 cents cheaper at today's price still make gas price close to historical high, so it's unlike that people will go out and buy bunch more just because it's 18 cents cheaper. Second, oil company already faces lots of scrutiny because of the profit they make. Pocketing measely 18 cents won't help profit a lot but will be a huge PR nightmare. There is no incentive for them to do that.

Again, 18 cents may not mean alot to those in top 40% income group, but it will help middle and lower income who are hit hard by the gas and food prices. Clinton has been consistent in her message in helping the middle and lower income people and that's what she is trying to get at.

so your saying that she is consistent in providing worthless gestures that don't actually help the working and middle class? I'm glad that they have such an effective champion as Hillary Clinton to help them in their time of need.

 

[Jaskalas]

Gas tax holiday is useless in the long run. Price of oil/gas is rising so fast that the reduction will be swallowed up within a year and we?ll be back to square one.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: rchiu
30 buck to you elitists or professors/economist sitting in ivory towers may not mean much, but to some blue collar workers, truck drivers, who are already pinched by the high fuel, food and everything else price, it is better then nothing.

And I do not agree the 18 cents will increase gas consumption or go to the pocket of oil company. I believe it will stay in consumer's pocket. First of all, gas is very inelastic. You either need it or you don't. Especially at this time when gas price is extremely high already, 18 cents cheaper at today's price still make gas price close to historical high, so it's unlike that people will go out and buy bunch more just because it's 18 cents cheaper. Second, oil company already faces lots of scrutiny because of the profit they make. Pocketing measely 18 cents won't help profit a lot but will be a huge PR nightmare. There is no incentive for them to do that.

Again, 18 cents may not mean alot to those in top 40% income group, but it will help middle and lower income who are hit hard by the gas and food prices. Clinton has been consistent in her message in helping the middle and lower income people and that's what she is trying to get at.

so your saying that she is consistent i worth gestures that don't actually help the working and middle class? I'm glad that they have such an effective champion as Hillary Clinton to help them in their time of need.

where did I say she is consistent in gestures that don't help working and middle class. I thought I made it clear it does help middle/lower class, and only you elitist making fun of $30 dollar saving are not impacted.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Dari
What's the point if the gas stations just raise the price to offset their lost?

Why would gas stations be losing anything with this? Their profit will remain the same, they didn't get any of that 18 cents tax anyway. They will be selling more gas so they stand to gain from this, without any need to raise prices.

You can argue that oil companies will lose money and may try to raise prices. However, with the attitude of people towards oil companies the way it is presently, I think they would have to be very careful about trying to offset those costs with arbitrary price increases. There would be a huge backlash against the oil companies if this were to happen, and I don't see oil companies trying to pull something like this.

Do you actually believe what you just posted?

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Gas tax holiday is useless in the long run. Price of oil/gas is rising so fast that the reduction will be swallowed up within a year and we?ll be back to square one.

Nobody is claiming this to be a long-term fix to anything, it's just about providing some short-term relief.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: Dari

Do you actually believe what you just posted?

Yes, and if you would like to provide a rebuttal of what I said, instead of a smart-ass comment, I'm waiting.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: rchiu
30 buck to you elitists or professors/economist sitting in ivory towers may not mean much, but to some blue collar workers, truck drivers, who are already pinched by the high fuel, food and everything else price, it is better then nothing.

And I do not agree the 18 cents will increase gas consumption or go to the pocket of oil company. I believe it will stay in consumer's pocket. First of all, gas is very inelastic. You either need it or you don't. Especially at this time when gas price is extremely high already, 18 cents cheaper at today's price still make gas price close to historical high, so it's unlike that people will go out and buy bunch more just because it's 18 cents cheaper. Second, oil company already faces lots of scrutiny because of the profit they make. Pocketing measely 18 cents won't help profit a lot but will be a huge PR nightmare. There is no incentive for them to do that.

Again, 18 cents may not mean alot to those in top 40% income group, but it will help middle and lower income who are hit hard by the gas and food prices. Clinton has been consistent in her message in helping the middle and lower income people and that's what she is trying to get at.

:roll: Oh freaking bite me with that elitist ivory tower rhetoric. Your spin is pathetic.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: OrByte
hehehe because we all know Oil companies operate altruistically and with the well being of consumers at the forefront of thier fuel pricing strategy.

give me a break.

If there is an method for Oil companies to exploit any "tax relief" this summer they will do so. And if over 100 economists agree that there is the oppportunity for gas companies to make money off of this scheme then we outta be thinking twice about embracing such reckless policy.

No, I am not claiming that oil companies act out of altruism, but they are concerned about their PR. They would be under close scrutiny to see how they responded to a windfall profits tax and if they were seen as raising prices arbitrarily just to offset these costs, this would come out and lead to very bad PR for them.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Dari

Do you actually believe what you just posted?

Yes, and if you would like to provide a rebuttal of what I said, instead of a smart-ass comment, I'm waiting.

You got smart-ass comments because your argument depends on a "huge [public] backlash" if oil companies were to raise prices in 3 months by an amount that is barely more than a quarter of what they've gone up in the past 3 months.
So maybe it's because what you said was so stupid that it wasn't worthy of anything better than a smart ass comment?

Are you going to make an appeal to think of the poor next? Oh, wait... the ivory tower elitist bomb already got dropped...

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: OrByte
hehehe because we all know Oil companies operate altruistically and with the well being of consumers at the forefront of thier fuel pricing strategy.

give me a break.

If there is an method for Oil companies to exploit any "tax relief" this summer they will do so. And if over 100 economists agree that there is the oppportunity for gas companies to make money off of this scheme then we outta be thinking twice about embracing such reckless policy.

No, I am not claiming that oil companies act out of altruism, but they are concerned about their PR. They would be under close scrutiny to see how they responded to a windfall profits tax and if they were seen as raising prices arbitrarily just to offset these costs, this would come out and lead to very bad PR for them.

:laugh: And what if they raised it before the supposed "holiday"? How long after is good for you?:laugh:

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
The important question: Can Krugman name the benefits? :laugh:

Here's Paul Krugman on the :topic

Whaddya know, I hadn't read him before my post, but he takes exactly the same position.

In fact, it's odd how he does so right down to the point of the later additional comments that he doesn't see this as all that important an isssue.

Anyway, John McCain has a really bad idea on gasoline, Hillary Clinton is emulating him (but with a twist that makes her plan pointless rather than evil), and Barack Obama, to his credit, says no.

I guess we can await Boberfett attacking him for 'shilling' for the democrats for comparing the policies and posting why he sees the Republican version as 'evil' compared to hers.

Add: Just to be clear: I don?t regard this as a major issue.

No, I just attack you, shillboy. I've never seen somebody so brazenly forgive anything the Democrats do just because the Republicans are worse. You're the very definition of the word shill.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: rchiu
30 buck to you elitists or professors/economist sitting in ivory towers may not mean much, but to some blue collar workers, truck drivers, who are already pinched by the high fuel, food and everything else price, it is better then nothing.

And I do not agree the 18 cents will increase gas consumption or go to the pocket of oil company. I believe it will stay in consumer's pocket. First of all, gas is very inelastic. You either need it or you don't. Especially at this time when gas price is extremely high already, 18 cents cheaper at today's price still make gas price close to historical high, so it's unlike that people will go out and buy bunch more just because it's 18 cents cheaper. Second, oil company already faces lots of scrutiny because of the profit they make. Pocketing measely 18 cents won't help profit a lot but will be a huge PR nightmare. There is no incentive for them to do that.

Again, 18 cents may not mean alot to those in top 40% income group, but it will help middle and lower income who are hit hard by the gas and food prices. Clinton has been consistent in her message in helping the middle and lower income people and that's what she is trying to get at.

:roll: Oh freaking bite me with that elitist ivory tower rhetoric. Your spin is pathetic.

heh, I am just telling like it is here. you people laugh at $30 saving, but I know plenty who will be very thankful for extra $30 in their pocket.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: OrByte
hehehe because we all know Oil companies operate altruistically and with the well being of consumers at the forefront of thier fuel pricing strategy.

give me a break.

If there is an method for Oil companies to exploit any "tax relief" this summer they will do so. And if over 100 economists agree that there is the oppportunity for gas companies to make money off of this scheme then we outta be thinking twice about embracing such reckless policy.

No, I am not claiming that oil companies act out of altruism, but they are concerned about their PR. They would be under close scrutiny to see how they responded to a windfall profits tax and if they were seen as raising prices arbitrarily just to offset these costs, this would come out and lead to very bad PR for them.

Oil companies were MAYBE concerned about their PR back when gas prices were closing in on 2 dollars. Back in 2004 wasn't it?

Now that we are at 4 dollars a gallon I don't think they care about PR so much...we've already shown that as a society we will take it up the bvtt in gas prices.

we just don't care enough. Oil Companies are banking on that. I think generally 4.00 or 4.18 isn't going to cause much of a stir among joeblow america.

remember back when we are closing in on 3 bucks a gallon we thought there would be rioting in the streets? psshawww.

 

[Moonbeam]

I was told that there is only so much gas available at this time of year so the price is high so there is gas to sell. If the tax comes off the gas it will disappear and there won't be any gas to sell, so if the tax really does come off gas will immediately go back up to where it is to prevent it disappearing with none for sale. It's sort of like what would happen if the store said free beer. All the beer would be gone in no time and people like me who need beer to get to fishing would have to stay home and play WOW.

Watch the fun when people who can afford the price of gas can't get any. Remember those names Clinton and McCain. That Capital C is for Communist.

 

[jonks]

People, it's freaking .30 cents a day. $10/month. $30 for the entire "holiday". It's not only a pander, it's treating people like morons. .30/day may feed an african family for a month, but it doesn't do crap here. If you are well enough off to have a vehicle that you can put gas in, .30/day will not make a measurable difference in your life. It will not be the difference between eating or starving, or making a credit card payment, or anything else. It's a freaking quarter. It's not elitist to have a sensible opinion and be against a tactic that has been tried and failed to accomplish anything significant in the past, offered in an election year to garner votes, and opposed by every economist in the country.

That said, it may very well pay off politically.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Dari

Do you actually believe what you just posted?

Yes, and if you would like to provide a rebuttal of what I said, instead of a smart-ass comment, I'm waiting.

You got smart-ass comments because your argument depends on a "huge [public] backlash" if oil companies were to raise prices in 3 months by an amount that is barely more than a quarter of what they've gone up in the past 3 months.
So maybe it's because what you said was so stupid that it wasn't worthy of anything better than a smart ass comment?

Are you going to make an appeal to think of the poor next? Oh, wait... the ivory tower elitist bomb already got dropped...

So you are saying oil price increased from $90/b in mid feb to $120/b today has nothing to do with the 60 cents increase in the last three month and the oil companies are just increasing the price at random?

There is a huge difference between gas companies raise price because their cost has increased and raise price because government is giving a tax holiday and they are exploiting it.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: rchiu
30 buck to you elitists or professors/economist sitting in ivory towers may not mean much, but to some blue collar workers, truck drivers, who are already pinched by the high fuel, food and everything else price, it is better then nothing.

And I do not agree the 18 cents will increase gas consumption or go to the pocket of oil company. I believe it will stay in consumer's pocket. First of all, gas is very inelastic. You either need it or you don't. Especially at this time when gas price is extremely high already, 18 cents cheaper at today's price still make gas price close to historical high, so it's unlike that people will go out and buy bunch more just because it's 18 cents cheaper. Second, oil company already faces lots of scrutiny because of the profit they make. Pocketing measely 18 cents won't help profit a lot but will be a huge PR nightmare. There is no incentive for them to do that.

Again, 18 cents may not mean alot to those in top 40% income group, but it will help middle and lower income who are hit hard by the gas and food prices. Clinton has been consistent in her message in helping the middle and lower income people and that's what she is trying to get at.

:roll: Oh freaking bite me with that elitist ivory tower rhetoric. Your spin is pathetic.

heh, I am just telling like it is here. you people laugh at $30 saving, but I know plenty who will be very thankful for extra $30 in their pocket.

The point is that NO ONE -- rich, poor, or otherwise -- is going to save $30 bucks. That's telling it like it is.

Lay off the kool-aid, eh?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: rchiu
30 buck to you elitists or professors/economist sitting in ivory towers may not mean much, but to some blue collar workers, truck drivers, who are already pinched by the high fuel, food and everything else price, it is better then nothing.

And I do not agree the 18 cents will increase gas consumption or go to the pocket of oil company. I believe it will stay in consumer's pocket. First of all, gas is very inelastic. You either need it or you don't. Especially at this time when gas price is extremely high already, 18 cents cheaper at today's price still make gas price close to historical high, so it's unlike that people will go out and buy bunch more just because it's 18 cents cheaper. Second, oil company already faces lots of scrutiny because of the profit they make. Pocketing measely 18 cents won't help profit a lot but will be a huge PR nightmare. There is no incentive for them to do that.

Again, 18 cents may not mean alot to those in top 40% income group, but it will help middle and lower income who are hit hard by the gas and food prices. Clinton has been consistent in her message in helping the middle and lower income people and that's what she is trying to get at.

:roll: Oh freaking bite me with that elitist ivory tower rhetoric. Your spin is pathetic.

heh, I am just telling like it is here. you people laugh at $30 saving, but I know plenty who will be very thankful for extra $30 in their pocket.

The point is that NO ONE -- rich, poor, or otherwise -- is going to save $30 bucks. That's telling it like it is.

Lay off the kool-aid, eh?

Nope, gas will instantly go back to where it is, but all the unfixed pot holes will do billions in damage to suspensions and spill millions of coffees in people's laps.