"Gas Tax Holiday" - Can anyone name the benefits?

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: rchiu
30 buck to you elitists or professors/economist sitting in ivory towers may not mean much, but to some blue collar workers, truck drivers, who are already pinched by the high fuel, food and everything else price, it is better then nothing.

And I do not agree the 18 cents will increase gas consumption or go to the pocket of oil company. I believe it will stay in consumer's pocket. First of all, gas is very inelastic. You either need it or you don't. Especially at this time when gas price is extremely high already, 18 cents cheaper at today's price still make gas price close to historical high, so it's unlike that people will go out and buy bunch more just because it's 18 cents cheaper. Second, oil company already faces lots of scrutiny because of the profit they make. Pocketing measely 18 cents won't help profit a lot but will be a huge PR nightmare. There is no incentive for them to do that.

Again, 18 cents may not mean alot to those in top 40% income group, but it will help middle and lower income who are hit hard by the gas and food prices. Clinton has been consistent in her message in helping the middle and lower income people and that's what she is trying to get at.

:roll: Oh freaking bite me with that elitist ivory tower rhetoric. Your spin is pathetic.

heh, I am just telling like it is here. you people laugh at $30 saving, but I know plenty who will be very thankful for extra $30 in their pocket.

Where does this $30 come from? At 15,000 miles a year, 20 miles per gallon, that's 750 gallons, which is $135/yr. That's $10/mo. You can find $10/mo by picking up loose change on the ground.

And don't forget to mention that cities and states are going to respond by upping taxes because of budget shortfalls for road maintenance, or whatever else gets cut.

The average citizen will pay for the tax "cut" one way or another. This is all all smoke and mirrors, nobody is saving any money.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: rchiu
30 buck to you elitists or professors/economist sitting in ivory towers may not mean much, but to some blue collar workers, truck drivers, who are already pinched by the high fuel, food and everything else price, it is better then nothing.

And I do not agree the 18 cents will increase gas consumption or go to the pocket of oil company. I believe it will stay in consumer's pocket. First of all, gas is very inelastic. You either need it or you don't. Especially at this time when gas price is extremely high already, 18 cents cheaper at today's price still make gas price close to historical high, so it's unlike that people will go out and buy bunch more just because it's 18 cents cheaper. Second, oil company already faces lots of scrutiny because of the profit they make. Pocketing measely 18 cents won't help profit a lot but will be a huge PR nightmare. There is no incentive for them to do that.

Again, 18 cents may not mean alot to those in top 40% income group, but it will help middle and lower income who are hit hard by the gas and food prices. Clinton has been consistent in her message in helping the middle and lower income people and that's what she is trying to get at.

:roll: Oh freaking bite me with that elitist ivory tower rhetoric. Your spin is pathetic.

heh, I am just telling like it is here. you people laugh at $30 saving, but I know plenty who will be very thankful for extra $30 in their pocket.

$30 for an entire summer is nothing-- and no one would really save that much once oil companies shave some off the top. The "blue collar" folks are making themselves look dumb when they fall for Hillary's pandering. If they're going to BE dumb, they need to stop acting like they're not.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Dari

Do you actually believe what you just posted?

Yes, and if you would like to provide a rebuttal of what I said, instead of a smart-ass comment, I'm waiting.

You got smart-ass comments because your argument depends on a "huge [public] backlash" if oil companies were to raise prices in 3 months by an amount that is barely more than a quarter of what they've gone up in the past 3 months.
So maybe it's because what you said was so stupid that it wasn't worthy of anything better than a smart ass comment?

Are you going to make an appeal to think of the poor next? Oh, wait... the ivory tower elitist bomb already got dropped...

So you are saying oil price increased from $90/b in mid feb to $120/b today has nothing to do with the 60 cents increase in the last three month and the oil companies are just increasing the price at random?

There is a huge difference between gas companies raise price because their cost has increased and raise price because government is giving a tax holiday and they are exploiting it.

And if this "tax holiday" leads to an increase in consumption?

BTW, don't put words in my mouth.

 

[Zorba]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Gas tax holiday is useless in the long run. Price of oil/gas is rising so fast that the reduction will be swallowed up within a year and we?ll be back to square one.

Nobody is claiming this to be a long-term fix to anything, it's just about providing some short-term relief.

I am so fucking sick of "short-term relief," especially those that have long term consequences. Short term thinking is the number one problem with this country.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
People, it's freaking .30 cents a day. $10/month. $30 for the entire "holiday". It's not only a pander, it's treating people like morons. .30/day may feed an african family for a month, but it doesn't do crap here. If you are well enough off to have a vehicle that you can put gas in, .30/day will not make a measurable difference in your life. It will not be the difference between eating or starving, or making a credit card payment, or anything else. It's a freaking quarter. It's not elitist to have a sensible opinion and be against a tactic that has been tried and failed to accomplish anything significant in the past, offered in an election year to garner votes, and opposed by every economist in the country.

That said, it may very well pay off politically.

For Obama, most likely... despite the bizarre claims among Hillary supporters that only a biased media and ivory tower elitists are against it.
But wow... talk about taking a page right out of the Rove playbook, eh? No wonder the neocons are starting to like Hillary...

 

[jonks]

Survey says: (/richard dawson)

http://www.slate.com/id/2175496/
Republicans are evenly split about whether a gas-tax holiday is a good idea or a bad idea. A slight majority of Democrats are against it. A strong majority of both constituencies (over 70 percent) thinks a gas-tax-holiday plan is a political move.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Zorba

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Gas tax holiday is useless in the long run. Price of oil/gas is rising so fast that the reduction will be swallowed up within a year and we?ll be back to square one.

Nobody is claiming this to be a long-term fix to anything, it's just about providing some short-term relief.

I am so fucking sick of "short-term relief," especially those that have long term consequences. Short term thinking is the number one problem with this country.

I totally agree :thumbsup:

Consumers who pile on the credit card debt, corporations that only care about their stock price next quarter, taxpayers who vote for tax cuts with no reduction in spending (making for deficits and debt that will burden their grandchildren's grandchildren), a media that doesn't remember what it published yesterday, and a people with no past and no future.

Or has Gore Vidal put it, "The United States of Amnesia."

 

[rchiu]

Like I said, $30 bucks for you people who don't live paycheck to paycheck is nothing. 2 of my fans in my PC case worth more then that but I am not gonna judge those who are hit hard by the current gas/food prices. And I will bet 100 buck with any one of you saying gas price will instantly go back to where it is. Any taker ? government can easily monitor the gas price hike in relation the the oil price hike, and I am sure media will be watching too, and I am willing to bet 100 buck that gas companies, while greedy, are not stupid.

 

[RU482]

Here's a benefit...think of all the gas you will save next fall...cause the roads will be so decrepit that you will not be able to drive on them!!

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: rchiu
30 buck to you elitists or professors/economist sitting in ivory towers may not mean much, but to some blue collar workers, truck drivers, who are already pinched by the high fuel, food and everything else price, it is better then nothing.

And I do not agree the 18 cents will increase gas consumption or go to the pocket of oil company. I believe it will stay in consumer's pocket. First of all, gas is very inelastic. You either need it or you don't. Especially at this time when gas price is extremely high already, 18 cents cheaper at today's price still make gas price close to historical high, so it's unlike that people will go out and buy bunch more just because it's 18 cents cheaper. Second, oil company already faces lots of scrutiny because of the profit they make. Pocketing measely 18 cents won't help profit a lot but will be a huge PR nightmare. There is no incentive for them to do that.

Again, 18 cents may not mean alot to those in top 40% income group, but it will help middle and lower income who are hit hard by the gas and food prices. Clinton has been consistent in her message in helping the middle and lower income people and that's what she is trying to get at.

:roll: Oh freaking bite me with that elitist ivory tower rhetoric. Your spin is pathetic.

heh, I am just telling like it is here. you people laugh at $30 saving, but I know plenty who will be very thankful for extra $30 in their pocket.

No, you're not telling it like it is. You called everyone who opposes this an elitist living in an ivory tower. In this case that couldn't be much further from the truth but that's irrelevant. This is nothing more than another pathetic attempt to garner votes. It has nothing to do with class. Period.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: rchiu
Like I said, $30 bucks for you people who don't live paycheck to paycheck is nothing. 2 of my fans in my PC case worth more then that but I am not gonna judge those who are hit hard by the current gas/food prices. And I will bet 100 buck with any one of you saying gas price will instantly go back to where it is. Any taker ? government can easily monitor the gas price hike in relation the the oil price hike, and I am sure media will be watching too, and I am willing to bet 100 buck that gas companies, while greedy, are not stupid.

Once again: NO ONE IS GOING TO SAVE $30 BUCKS.

So lay off the elitist remarks alright? You're only sinking to that new low because you can't counter any of the rational arguments in this thread.

First, because hardly everyone who posts here is rich. That's plain bullshit.

But most importantly, because this gas tax holiday is not even going to happen. So this isn't even pandering, it's posturing.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: rchiu
Like I said, $30 bucks for you people who don't live paycheck to paycheck is nothing. 2 of my fans in my PC case worth more then that but I am not gonna judge those who are hit hard by the current gas/food prices.

What part of THIS 'SAVINGS' ISN'T REAL are you missing?

Originally posted by: rchiu
And I will bet 100 buck with any one of you saying gas price will instantly go back to where it is. Any taker ? government can easily monitor the gas price hike in relation the the oil price hike, and I am sure media will be watching too, and I am willing to bet 100 buck that gas companies, while greedy, are not stupid.

Yes, because the government has been able to monitor and control the gas prices while oil companies are reaping record profits. Dream on...

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Robor


No, you're not telling it like it is. You called everyone who opposes this an elitist living in an ivory tower. In this case that couldn't be much further from the truth but that's irrelevant. This is nothing more than another pathetic attempt to garner votes. It has nothing to do with class. Period.

Yes it has everything to do with class. Certain class laugh at the $30 saving. Certain class will be thankful for the $30 saving. You people are the ones calling those people that are thankful ignorant and buying into Hillary's pandering. You don't live their life and you have no right judging them.

Let's see how people respond to her tomorrow and see who lives in the real world and who lives in some ivory tower.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Robor


No, you're not telling it like it is. You called everyone who opposes this an elitist living in an ivory tower. In this case that couldn't be much further from the truth but that's irrelevant. This is nothing more than another pathetic attempt to garner votes. It has nothing to do with class. Period.

Yes it has everything to do with class. Certain class laugh at the $30 saving. Certain class will be thankful for the $30 saving. You people are the ones calling those people that are thankful ignorant and buying into Hillary's pandering. You don't live their life and you have no right judging them.

Let's see how people respond to her tomorrow and see who lives in the real world and who lives in some ivory tower.

You clearly don't live in the real world either if you have more than $30 worth of computer fans in your PC, so who are you to call others elitists and pretend like you understand the plight of the working class? Talk about an elitist...

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Robor


No, you're not telling it like it is. You called everyone who opposes this an elitist living in an ivory tower. In this case that couldn't be much further from the truth but that's irrelevant. This is nothing more than another pathetic attempt to garner votes. It has nothing to do with class. Period.

Yes it has everything to do with class. Certain class laugh at the $30 saving. Certain class will be thankful for the $30 saving. You people are the ones calling those people that are thankful ignorant and buying into Hillary's pandering. You don't live their life and you have no right judging them.

Let's see how people respond to her tomorrow and see who lives in the real world and who lives in some ivory tower.

Fuck you. Seriously. You want to keep slinging this shit, these unfounded insults in the face of all the facts presented, then that's the response you're going to get.
If I actually thought ANYONE would save this $30 bucks -- much less EVERYONE -- I'd be all for it. But the simple FACT is that no one is going to save anything.

 

[venkman]

You don't need to be an economist to see why this is a bad idea. Heck, even a basic understanding of economics 101 could give you a perfectly good reason.

Whenever there is a tax imposed or removed from a product, two sides bear the burden/benefit of that change in tax. The Consumer buying the item and the producer producing the item. Let say Item A sells for $9 and there is a $1 tax on the item. The Government comes in repeals the tax, so the consumer just pays $9 for the item, correct?

It depends. In simplest terms, Competition determines wheter the consumer is charged $9 and gains the entire benefit of the tax pull or wheter the consumer is charged $10 and the producer gains the entire benefit of the tax pull (ie the $1 tax goes to the producer instead of the government).

In an industry with a lot of competition or available subsitutes, the consumer will gain the benefit. If the Government removed the tax on Soda Pop, Coke might charge $10 but they would lose their business to Pepsi who was charging $9 and if those two colluded to keep the price up, then genaric brands like Dr. K, RC Cola, etc would use the tax break to their advantage to gain more sales by dropping their price.

In an industry without a lot of competition or available subsitutes, the producer will gain the benefit. If Government removed the tax on oil, Exxon, Shell, etc would just raise the price of oil $1 at the pump. What would the consumer do? Run their cars on drinking water? No, they will pony up the money.

In most industries, some of the benefit (or burden) better know as Incidence is absorbed in proportions by both the consumers and the sellers depending on how much demand shifts based on a change in price. The greater the quantity demand shift, the more the incidence will favor the consumer. The smaller the quantity demand shift, the more the incidence will favor the producer.

Which of those scenarios does big oil sound like?

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Robor


No, you're not telling it like it is. You called everyone who opposes this an elitist living in an ivory tower. In this case that couldn't be much further from the truth but that's irrelevant. This is nothing more than another pathetic attempt to garner votes. It has nothing to do with class. Period.

Yes it has everything to do with class. Certain class laugh at the $30 saving. Certain class will be thankful for the $30 saving. You people are the ones calling those people that are thankful ignorant and buying into Hillary's pandering. You don't live their life and you have no right judging them.

Let's see how people respond to her tomorrow and see who lives in the real world and who lives in some ivory tower.

If "living in the real world" means I don't understand basic economics (which explain why I wouldn't even get that $30), or that I'd prefer "$30" to the collective effects of highway maintenance, then I (who make less than $20k per year) somehow belong in the ivory tower...

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Vic

Fuck you. Seriously. You want to keep slinging this shit, these unfounded insults in the face of all the facts presented, then that's the response you're going to get.
If I actually thought ANYONE would save this $30 bucks -- much less EVERYONE -- I'd be all for it. But the simple FACT is that no one is going to save anything.

So what you think becomes the FACT now? You are a little full of yourself aren't you? Even obama admits that people will save half a tank/$30 bucks under clinton's plan. Do you want me to quote you on that? If the tax holiday get passed, it WILL save people money. There is no way gas company will have the audacity to raise the price to take advantage. it doesn't make sense and don't give me those supply demand crap. Gas price is one of the most inelastic good you will find, so go review your economic on how gas price is determined.

 

[OrByte]

people that live in the real world would rather have that money spent where it was meant to

infrastructure

and by extension

JOBS.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Robor


No, you're not telling it like it is. You called everyone who opposes this an elitist living in an ivory tower. In this case that couldn't be much further from the truth but that's irrelevant. This is nothing more than another pathetic attempt to garner votes. It has nothing to do with class. Period.

Yes it has everything to do with class. Certain class laugh at the $30 saving. Certain class will be thankful for the $30 saving. You people are the ones calling those people that are thankful ignorant and buying into Hillary's pandering. You don't live their life and you have no right judging them.

Let's see how people respond to her tomorrow and see who lives in the real world and who lives in some ivory tower.

Hey dipshit. You don't know me so you have no right to judge me or assume my financial status based on my position on this issue. Truth be told my wife and I do live damned near paycheck to paycheck so again you can shove that elite ivory tower bullshit.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Where does this $30 come from? At 15,000 miles a year, 20 miles per gallon, that's 750 gallons, which is $135/yr. That's $10/mo. You can find $10/mo by picking up loose change on the ground.

And don't forget to mention that cities and states are going to respond by upping taxes because of budget shortfalls for road maintenance, or whatever else gets cut.

The average citizen will pay for the tax "cut" one way or another. This is all all smoke and mirrors, nobody is saving any money.

I tend to agree.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Robor


No, you're not telling it like it is. You called everyone who opposes this an elitist living in an ivory tower. In this case that couldn't be much further from the truth but that's irrelevant. This is nothing more than another pathetic attempt to garner votes. It has nothing to do with class. Period.

Yes it has everything to do with class. Certain class laugh at the $30 saving. Certain class will be thankful for the $30 saving. You people are the ones calling those people that are thankful ignorant and buying into Hillary's pandering. You don't live their life and you have no right judging them.

Let's see how people respond to her tomorrow and see who lives in the real world and who lives in some ivory tower.

You clearly don't live in the real world either if you have more than $30 worth of computer fans in your PC, so who are you to call others elitists and pretend like you understand the plight of the working class? Talk about an elitist...

Dude, if you think $30 bucks it too much for pc cooling, you probably forget what Anandtech is all about. But any way, my grandpa/grandma was farmer and I was fortunate enough to get a good education and earn decent living. But I have seen how low income people suffer and worry about their money. By the way elitist isn't those who make lots of money, it's those who made lots of money and cannot be compassionate about those who don't. doesn't matter how much you and I make. The difference is if we can be compassionate about those who are not as fortunate.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: rchiu
So what you think becomes the FACT now? You are a little full of yourself aren't you? Even obama admits that people will save half a tank/$30 bucks under clinton's plan. Do you want me to quote you on that? If the tax holiday get passed, it WILL save people money. There is no way gas company will have the audacity to raise the price to take advantage. it doesn't make sense and don't give me those supply demand crap. Gas price is one of the most inelastic good you will find, so go review your economic on how gas price is determined.

I know what Obama said, so feel free to quote it in context.

And no, it won't save anyone money. Don't tell me to review my economic (sic) when that is what every "ivory tower elitist" economist is saying. The only one full of themselves here is you.

 

[jpeyton]

Sorry if this is a repost:

Over 200 economists, including 4 Nobel Prize winners, sign letter condemning Clinton/McCain gas tax holiday

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: rchiu
Like I said, $30 bucks for you people who don't live paycheck to paycheck is nothing. 2 of my fans in my PC case worth more then that but I am not gonna judge those who are hit hard by the current gas/food prices. And I will bet 100 buck with any one of you saying gas price will instantly go back to where it is. Any taker ? government can easily monitor the gas price hike in relation the the oil price hike, and I am sure media will be watching too, and I am willing to bet 100 buck that gas companies, while greedy, are not stupid.

Alright, I'll take that bet.

However, we all know this will never pass -- if it's voted on at all -- so this is a moot point

Joining in the criticism was House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.), who said that the Democratic leadership of Congress has no intention of pursuing the summer tax suspension that Clinton touted. The move "would not be positive," he said. "The oil companies would just raise their prices."

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BTW, if you think this will do a whole lot, you're at odd with Clinton aides:

Clinton aides think that even if the measure is a limited way to reduce gas prices, it allows the candidate to bash oil companies and cast her opponent against an idea that has political appeal.

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