-
We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.
Gas going up..and quality going down?
- Thread starter Tristicus
- Start date
bruceb
Diamond Member
Some areas, like in NJ and Northeast, use a winter blend with some ethanol in it. The brand of gas in your area may have more ethanol in it. The more the % of ethanol the more your gas MPG will suffer. Most areas have no more than about 10% as if much more than that is used, your fuel system may need to have special hoses and stuff to deal with methanol. Check your air filter and change spark plugs and wires.
Is your mother one of those old people who idles the car for an hour before driving for 2 minutes? Idling consumes a surprisingly large amount of gas.
Snow and ice on the road also have a significant effect on gas mileage. If you step on the gas and the tires start spinning, there's more energy being consumed in the transmission than there is energy being applied to the road.
Snow and ice on the road also have a significant effect on gas mileage. If you step on the gas and the tires start spinning, there's more energy being consumed in the transmission than there is energy being applied to the road.
punjabiplaya
Diamond Member
cold weather and everyone starts complaining about fuel economy. hmmmmmmm
like already said, dont buy gas with corn fuel in it. ethanol kills your mileage, thats why i only buy mobil or shell. it sucks because you can save a few cents a gallon at other gas stations, but its not worth it over the course of a tank. in my truck with 10% ethanol fuel im lucky to get 230 miles. with straight gas it gets 280-290. ive been watching this for so long now that i can just tell by the way the engine feels while driving if it has corn fuel in it or not. it just runs better/stronger on straight gas.
Indeed this is true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density
(energy per volume)
ethanol - 24 MJ/L
gasoline - 34.2 MJ/L (42% better than ethanol)
diesel - 37.3 MJ/L (9.3% better than gasoline)
Of course there's always a range to this. Gasoline is not a clearly defined compound, and neither is diesel. There is significant difference between summer and winter gasoline or diesel.
This. Avoid ethanol. It's hard here in central NY, every place has 10%.
SparkyJJO
Lifer
It's called winter. Happens every year. Takes longer for the powertrain to warm up, more idle time (while scraping windows for example), and winter gas reformulation they always feel they have to screw around with for some stupid reason.
My Camaro would go from 28 to 25, the Trailblazer I have now went from 20 to 18.
My Camaro would go from 28 to 25, the Trailblazer I have now went from 20 to 18.
TanisHalfElven
Diamond Member
Is shell straight up gas ? i usually get chevron, because of the techron in it, but if shell is straight up gas, i'll switch.....
actually i'm gonna go check now.
jlee
Lifer
jlee
Lifer
I realize that..which is why I replied to myself to answer TanisHalfElven's question. 😛
Meghan54
Lifer
So many misinformed here.....and I thought the board has some people with working brain cells. Guess I was wrong.
First, your division is wrong. Using your figures, ethanol contains 70% of the energy that "pure" gasoline has. And you managed to leave out a more salient set of figures.....those of E10 gas.....posted on that same chart.
Gasoline...34.2MJ/L
E10 gasoline....33.18/L
That works out to E10 containing 97% of the energy that "pure" gasoline contains. Certainly not what most people think.
Bullshit. Pure bullshit. There's no way E10 gas, which has 97% of the energy content that "pure" gas has could drop your mileage by 70 miles.....that's over a 20% reduction in mileage by your "figures." But that doesn't make a lick of sense if you actually think about it.
If you reduced your tank fill by 10% of "pure" gas per fillup, you'd expect a 10% reduction in range and mileage. If you get 280 miles per tank with a full tank, reducing your tank fill by 10% would give you a range reduction of 28 miles....giving you 252 miles.
But you're not reducing your tank fill by 10%, you're replacing 10% of your tank fill with ethanol which as 70% of the energy content that the rest of your tank has. And that E10 blend contains 97% of the energy content that "pure" gas contains, so you should be seeing at worst a 3% or so reduction in range and mileage. So, if you get 20mpg, you'd see a reduction to 19.4mpg at a 3% reduction, or negligible.
And remember, you're replacing approx. 13oz. of 128oz. of gas with a substance (ethanol) which produces a big dilution effect.
So, replacing 10% of your gas with ethanol, with its approx. 30% reduction of energy content, cannot drop mileage 20% or more.....just doesn't make sense at all if you use your brain and think about it rather than all the kneejerk reactions people tend to have about it.
Exactly. The ethanol addition has nothing to do with the summer/winter blends. Instead, the seasonal blending of gas has everything to do with evaporation of said gas.
The difference between conventional summer- and winter-blend gasoline has to do with the Reid Vapor Pressure of the fuel. RVP relates to the volatility of a gasoline. The more volatile a gasoline, the more likely it will evaporate as the temperatures rises; evaporated gasoline contributes to unhealthy ozone and smog levels. Summer gasoline has a low RVP and is less likely to evaporate when compared to the high RVP winter grade. The Environmental Protection Agency says conventional summer-blend gasoline contains 1.7 percent more energy than winter-blend gas, which contributes to the summer blend’s slightly better gas mileage.
And, as previously mentioned, winter also gives longer warmup times, which equals richer running times, consequently burning more gas during warmup cycles.
Ethanol has nothing to do with dramatic mileage decreases, and certainly cannot drop mileage by 25% as some have alluded to. Just cannot happen.
First, your division is wrong. Using your figures, ethanol contains 70% of the energy that "pure" gasoline has. And you managed to leave out a more salient set of figures.....those of E10 gas.....posted on that same chart.
Gasoline...34.2MJ/L
E10 gasoline....33.18/L
That works out to E10 containing 97% of the energy that "pure" gasoline contains. Certainly not what most people think.
Bullshit. Pure bullshit. There's no way E10 gas, which has 97% of the energy content that "pure" gas has could drop your mileage by 70 miles.....that's over a 20% reduction in mileage by your "figures." But that doesn't make a lick of sense if you actually think about it.
If you reduced your tank fill by 10% of "pure" gas per fillup, you'd expect a 10% reduction in range and mileage. If you get 280 miles per tank with a full tank, reducing your tank fill by 10% would give you a range reduction of 28 miles....giving you 252 miles.
But you're not reducing your tank fill by 10%, you're replacing 10% of your tank fill with ethanol which as 70% of the energy content that the rest of your tank has. And that E10 blend contains 97% of the energy content that "pure" gas contains, so you should be seeing at worst a 3% or so reduction in range and mileage. So, if you get 20mpg, you'd see a reduction to 19.4mpg at a 3% reduction, or negligible.
And remember, you're replacing approx. 13oz. of 128oz. of gas with a substance (ethanol) which produces a big dilution effect.
So, replacing 10% of your gas with ethanol, with its approx. 30% reduction of energy content, cannot drop mileage 20% or more.....just doesn't make sense at all if you use your brain and think about it rather than all the kneejerk reactions people tend to have about it.
Exactly. The ethanol addition has nothing to do with the summer/winter blends. Instead, the seasonal blending of gas has everything to do with evaporation of said gas.
The difference between conventional summer- and winter-blend gasoline has to do with the Reid Vapor Pressure of the fuel. RVP relates to the volatility of a gasoline. The more volatile a gasoline, the more likely it will evaporate as the temperatures rises; evaporated gasoline contributes to unhealthy ozone and smog levels. Summer gasoline has a low RVP and is less likely to evaporate when compared to the high RVP winter grade. The Environmental Protection Agency says conventional summer-blend gasoline contains 1.7 percent more energy than winter-blend gas, which contributes to the summer blend’s slightly better gas mileage.
And, as previously mentioned, winter also gives longer warmup times, which equals richer running times, consequently burning more gas during warmup cycles.
Ethanol has nothing to do with dramatic mileage decreases, and certainly cannot drop mileage by 25% as some have alluded to. Just cannot happen.
Last edited:
XZeroII
Lifer
While I respect your math regarding ethanol, you're living in a dream world. I've noticed a minimum of 10% reduction in gas milage between ethanol vs non-ethanol gasoline in my 03 Grand Am. Where I live, you can't get non-ethanol gas anywhere anymore. There used to be one or two stations if you drive like 30 or 50 miles away, but not anymore. When I take road trips, there is a significant difference in milage. There's obviously some other factors involved that you're not taking into account.
facepalm
Its not just 1 thing, i.e. ethanol. Its several things that add up.
Cars use more gas till they hit a certain temp, winter gas/ethanol, more idleing, tire pressure drops in cold temps and people don't adjust, etc...
All of that adds up. So don't blame just 1 thing look at the full picture.
Its not just 1 thing, i.e. ethanol. Its several things that add up.
Cars use more gas till they hit a certain temp, winter gas/ethanol, more idleing, tire pressure drops in cold temps and people don't adjust, etc...
All of that adds up. So don't blame just 1 thing look at the full picture.
TraumaRN
Diamond Member
As someone that tracks my gas mileage on a regular basis, I can tell you a few observations:
The first time I refueled with winter blend gasoline, I could immediately tell, my average FE dropped about 1.5 to 2MPG.
Then of course once winter really comes on full swing, my Fusion Hybrid goes from averaging about 46-48MPG roundtrip to work, down to around 40-42MPG if the weather is between 20 F and 35F. Below 20F and down to 10F its about 35-40MPG. Anything below 10F is maybe 35MPG if I have a tailwind, but more like 33MPG. FWIW my route to work is 30 miles one way and about 60% highway/40% city.
There are multiple factors, tire pressure being one. I check my tire pressure on a weekly basis in the winter time. Longer warm-up times. Winter blend gasoline. Generally stronger winds in the winter time(for my area anyways). Snow/ice/moisture on the roadway. These all contribute to a worsen fuel economy.
Now I only buy pure gasoline, because again because I noticed at minimum a 1-2MPG drop when I fill with E10. Which is about right given that E10 is just slightly less energy dense.
The first time I refueled with winter blend gasoline, I could immediately tell, my average FE dropped about 1.5 to 2MPG.
Then of course once winter really comes on full swing, my Fusion Hybrid goes from averaging about 46-48MPG roundtrip to work, down to around 40-42MPG if the weather is between 20 F and 35F. Below 20F and down to 10F its about 35-40MPG. Anything below 10F is maybe 35MPG if I have a tailwind, but more like 33MPG. FWIW my route to work is 30 miles one way and about 60% highway/40% city.
There are multiple factors, tire pressure being one. I check my tire pressure on a weekly basis in the winter time. Longer warm-up times. Winter blend gasoline. Generally stronger winds in the winter time(for my area anyways). Snow/ice/moisture on the roadway. These all contribute to a worsen fuel economy.
Now I only buy pure gasoline, because again because I noticed at minimum a 1-2MPG drop when I fill with E10. Which is about right given that E10 is just slightly less energy dense.
I'd love to try that sometime, except I cannot find anywhere here that doesnt have ethanol. Of course there are always people that swear the 91 or 93 octane doesnt have ethanol but it does at any gas station i've stopped at
Edit: Now i see why.. Florida is an E10 mandatory state. Even at home in Kansas though I never saw a pump that didnt say "10% ethanol"
TraumaRN
Diamond Member
Luckily in Michigan we have some sanity and have pure gasoline...I hated being in North and South Carolina this fall, I probably went to 20 different gas stations before I found one with pure gasoline.
And actually I'd hate to try and run some of my yard tools with E10...because I know my weed whacker states explicitly in the manual no ethanol to be used.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 25K
-
-
-
