Gas going up..and quality going down?

[coxmaster]

Luckily in Michigan we have some sanity and have pure gasoline...I hated being in North and South Carolina this fall, I probably went to 20 different gas stations before I found one with pure gasoline.

And actually I'd hate to try and run some of my yard tools with E10...because I know my weed whacker states explicitly in the manual no ethanol to be used.

There are places to get non ethanol gas down here, but they are specifically for airplanes (some run 93 octane) and law stuff. They charge a hell of a lot more just so people wont buy it for cars.

 

[3chordcharlie]

In no particular order:
Ethanol
Tire pressure
Snow tires
Bad roads
more frequent stop and go when weather is bad
Cold engine and transmission
longer idle before driving
defroster running A/C fulltime

Everything about winter works against you for mileage (except I suppose that you get colder air to burn). Let's blame this 100% on 'teh eval c0rn gas'😉

 

[3chordcharlie]

Idling consumes very little gas. Less than a half gallon per hour for my 5.7L V8.

That's a lot. At that rate, warming your engine up for 8 minutes before a 20-30 mile trip will cost you 1/8th extra fuel if you are also in the 20-30mpg range. And when you start out, your transmission will still be cold.

 

[mmntech]

It's called winter. Happens every year. Takes longer for the powertrain to warm up, more idle time (while scraping windows for example), and winter gas reformulation they always feel they have to screw around with for some stupid reason.

My Camaro would go from 28 to 25, the Trailblazer I have now went from 20 to 18.

True dat. Even my Civic chews through gas come winter. With gas hovering at $1.12/L, it's hurting. Think the pickups are bad, try driving an E-450. Those things must have a 200L tank in them. I put $150 worth of gas in one of our work trucks (the maximum our fleet cards allow at one time) and it didn't even fill the tank 3/4. They guzzle gas too, even with no cargo.

 

[BUTCH1]

Cars use more fuel until they warm up. So the longer it takes the more it uses.

Yup, PCM runs in a pre-programmed "open loop" mode until O2 sensors warm up, this is a temporary "rich" mode as a cold engine needs it when first started. Before FI came along this was accomplished with a choke.

 

[punjabiplaya]

Yup, PCM runs in a pre-programmed "open loop" mode until O2 sensors warm up, this is a temporary "rich" mode as a cold engine needs it when first started. Before FI came along this was accomplished with a choke.

rgr that, if you have a dashhawk or something to monitor your afrs, especially with a DI engine, you'll see the computer dumping fuel in to heat stuff up

 

[paperfist]

This. Avoid ethanol. It's hard here in central NY, every place has 10%.

I was just going to comment on that, I have yet to see a station without 10% ethanol.

My Focus which usually gets 27MPG is down to 15MPG this winter. I'm sure the highway driving and new snow tires aren't helping either, but still that's quite a dent to my wallet.

Plus my snowblower runs like *bleep* thanks to the ethanol. Grr!

 

[ShawnD1]

I was just going to comment on that, I have yet to see a station without 10% ethanol.

My Focus which usually gets 27MPG is down to 15MPG this winter. I'm sure the highway driving and new snow tires aren't helping either, but still that's quite a dent to my wallet.

Plus my snowblower runs like *bleep* thanks to the ethanol. Grr!

Man that sucks ass. What hippy asshole made it so all of your gas has 10% ethanol?

Toyota Crayola is currently running at 29 miles per US gallon in the city. Haven't checked highway mileage because I generally don't drive on highways unless I'm going on vacation. All gas here is real 100% real gasoline.
The amount of idle time I give the car is to remote start before I put my coat on, walk about 30 feet, brush snow off the windows, then start driving.

 

[Zivic]

Man that sucks ass. What hippy asshole made it so all of your gas has 10% ethanol?

Toyota Crayola is currently running at 29 miles per US gallon in the city. Haven't checked highway mileage because I generally don't drive on highways unless I'm going on vacation. All gas here is real 100% real gasoline.
The amount of idle time I give the car is to remote start before I put my coat on, walk about 30 feet, brush snow off the windows, then start driving.

mitsu evo on E70 for the winter, pulling 12.8 mpg FTW

 

[dualsmp]

Find pure gas near you. 🙂
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

 

[punjabiplaya]

Find pure gas near you. 🙂
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

niceeee

 

[wirednuts]

So many misinformed here.....and I thought the board has some people with working brain cells. Guess I was wrong.





First, your division is wrong. Using your figures, ethanol contains 70% of the energy that "pure" gasoline has. And you managed to leave out a more salient set of figures.....those of E10 gas.....posted on that same chart.


Gasoline...34.2MJ/L

E10 gasoline....33.18/L

That works out to E10 containing 97% of the energy that "pure" gasoline contains. Certainly not what most people think.






Bullshit. Pure bullshit. There's no way E10 gas, which has 97% of the energy content that "pure" gas has could drop your mileage by 70 miles.....that's over a 20% reduction in mileage by your "figures." But that doesn't make a lick of sense if you actually think about it.

If you reduced your tank fill by 10% of "pure" gas per fillup, you'd expect a 10% reduction in range and mileage. If you get 280 miles per tank with a full tank, reducing your tank fill by 10% would give you a range reduction of 28 miles....giving you 252 miles.

But you're not reducing your tank fill by 10%, you're replacing 10% of your tank fill with ethanol which as 70% of the energy content that the rest of your tank has. And that E10 blend contains 97% of the energy content that "pure" gas contains, so you should be seeing at worst a 3% or so reduction in range and mileage. So, if you get 20mpg, you'd see a reduction to 19.4mpg at a 3% reduction, or negligible.

And remember, you're replacing approx. 13oz. of 128oz. of gas with a substance (ethanol) which produces a big dilution effect.

So, replacing 10% of your gas with ethanol, with its approx. 30% reduction of energy content, cannot drop mileage 20% or more.....just doesn't make sense at all if you use your brain and think about it rather than all the kneejerk reactions people tend to have about it.




Exactly. The ethanol addition has nothing to do with the summer/winter blends. Instead, the seasonal blending of gas has everything to do with evaporation of said gas.

The difference between conventional summer- and winter-blend gasoline has to do with the Reid Vapor Pressure of the fuel. RVP relates to the volatility of a gasoline. The more volatile a gasoline, the more likely it will evaporate as the temperatures rises; evaporated gasoline contributes to unhealthy ozone and smog levels. Summer gasoline has a low RVP and is less likely to evaporate when compared to the high RVP winter grade. The Environmental Protection Agency says conventional summer-blend gasoline contains 1.7 percent more energy than winter-blend gas, which contributes to the summer blend’s slightly better gas mileage.

And, as previously mentioned, winter also gives longer warmup times, which equals richer running times, consequently burning more gas during warmup cycles.

Ethanol has nothing to do with dramatic mileage decreases, and certainly cannot drop mileage by 25% as some have alluded to. Just cannot happen.

relax dude. i am reporting reality. there are hundreds of factors in methanol use in gasoline engines, and every model of car is different. my truck just so happens to not adjust well to ethanol. most newer cars adapt a lot better, but there are still tons of engines out there that just like straight gas a lot better.

 

[desy]

Finally some sense to this
Ethanol reduces your mileage maybe 3% so if you notice 12 miles over 400 you are keenly tuned to your vehicle. WINTER for many reasons kills your mileage much more than 3%
The reason Ethanol 5-10% is everywhere is because almost everywhere has eliminated MTBE as the antiknock agent in gasoline becaause they found it to be cancerous.

 

[Tristicus]

Find pure gas near you. 🙂
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

Damn, just filled up at Sheetz tonight, one pretty close to me. I'll use that next time, see if it helps anything.

 

[paperfist]

Find pure gas near you. 🙂
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

lol nearest one is almost an hour and a half away 🙁

 

[jlee]

lol nearest one is almost an hour and a half away 🙁

94 miles for me, unless I go to VT and then it's a mere 67.

 

[LTC8K6]

That's a lot. At that rate, warming your engine up for 8 minutes before a 20-30 mile trip will cost you 1/8th extra fuel if you are also in the 20-30mpg range. And when you start out, your transmission will still be cold.

It's a small amount, and it's on the high end. It's approximately an ounce per minute. 8 minutes of idling would use less than a cup of fuel, and have little effect on my overall average fuel economy.

Smaller engines use far less.

 

[wirednuts]

i accidentally let my truck idle for about 10 hours overnight once when it had around 160k miles on it. it used about a 1/4 tank of gas, and the heater was on just enough to make everything inside the cab very jelly-like😀 it was reaaally warm in there.... but the engine wasnt effected by it. it never did and still hasnt given me any problems. at 204k now....

 

[ShawnD1]

The reason Ethanol 5-10% is everywhere is because almost everywhere has eliminated MTBE as the antiknock agent in gasoline becaause they found it to be cancerous.

lol. You're not supposed to drink the gasoline 😛

It's a small amount, and it's on the high end. It's approximately an ounce per minute. 8 minutes of idling would use less than a cup of fuel, and have little effect on my overall average fuel economy.

Depends how long your trips are. Some googling around puts estimates for a small car in the 0.3 gallons per hour range, 10 minutes seems like a pretty standard idle time, 0.05 gallons total. Assume about 25mpg for a small car. 0.05 gallons will take you 1.25 miles. How far were you planning to drive?

If you're just driving your kid to elementary school or the store about 1.25 miles away, doing this cuts your gas mileage in half. If you were going 50 miles, then it's basically nothing.

 

[wirednuts]

yeah but driving in an ice cube really sucks

 

[3chordcharlie]

It's a small amount, and it's on the high end. It's approximately an ounce per minute. 8 minutes of idling would use less than a cup of fuel, and have little effect on my overall average fuel economy.

Smaller engines use far less.

It's an eighth of a gallon. On a 20 mile trip at 20mpg, it will cost you 12.5%. Is that a 'little effect' or a big one?

I mean, in the greater scheme of things, all the fuel you will personally ever use is a small amount.

 

[3chordcharlie]

yeah but driving in an ice cube really sucks

Reads his other posts...

Hmm... must be nothing but the ethanol killing your mileage 😉

 

[ShawnD1]

yeah but driving in an ice cube really sucks

But idling doesn't really help with this. When I start a -20C car, it never actually heats up when idling. In fact, it doesn't even start to blow warm air until it has been driven for about 5 minutes. Not idling for 5 minutes but actual driving for 5 minutes.

The warm up is mostly for the car's sake rather than your sake. Some vehicles are so stiff that they don't even work properly unless they idle for a bit. My parents old Chevy van would stall if you let the clutch out in neutral. I'm not sure how that works since it's not in a gear, but there's something thick in there and it's thick enough to stop the engine. My friend's pile of shit Chevy Blazer also had a problem where the torque converter didn't work at low temperatures.

To get around the ice cube problem, go to Walmart and buy a $10 heated seat cover. Best $10 you'll ever spend.

 

[BassBomb]

winter gas, also ethanol %'s have increased in the last few years i think

 

[Zenmervolt]

like already said, dont buy gas with corn fuel in it. ethanol kills your mileage, thats why i only buy mobil or shell. it sucks because you can save a few cents a gallon at other gas stations, but its not worth it over the course of a tank. in my truck with 10% ethanol fuel im lucky to get 230 miles. with straight gas it gets 280-290. ive been watching this for so long now that i can just tell by the way the engine feels while driving if it has corn fuel in it or not. it just runs better/stronger on straight gas.

The science isn't with you there.

E85 (85% Ethanol, 15% gasoline) imposes a 15%-30% penalty in mileage (depending on the vehicle and how good the ECU is as optimizing for the switch). With E10 (10% ethanol, 90% gasoline), you're only going to see a 1.5% to 3% difference. It's simply not possible for E10 to make the amount of difference you're claiming; to do so would violate the laws of physics.

ZV