Um, no. One side (the gamers) is saying "Some games should cater to me, for I am legion". The other side (the non-gamers) is saying "No games should cater to you, for your very existence offends me." The ethics in journalism (to the extent that applies) is about whether the non-gamers should be allowed to silence the gamers because some of the gamers are not at all nice.
Hehe
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Wikipedia said:Poitier began to be criticized for being typecast as over-idealized African American characters who were not permitted to have any sexuality or personality faults, such as his character in Guess Who's Coming To Dinner. Poitier was aware of this pattern himself, but was conflicted on the matter: he wanted more varied roles, but also felt obliged to set a good example with his characters to defy previous stereotypes, as he was the only major actor of African descent in the American film industry at the time.
IMO, Western media needs to work on including more aspirational female characters, suggesting things like "intelligence is good", "you can have physical prowess without being considered manly", and "good looks shouldn't be the end of your rainbow". Poitier obviously felt that ethnic minorities could do with some aspirational characters too. Once you have a bit more balance, more multi-faceted and flawed characters follow, because, to put it simply, Superman is boring as he doesn't have any flaws, and a Superman-only diet gets old fast.
You make good points, but honestly if we're gonna have cookie cutter female characters then why bother? Make no mistake, the more diversity in games the better, but if we can't put females in the same situations as men (good and bad) then I consider it a failure.The author is potentially making an interesting point, but what he's missing with the Guybrush example is that the idea for the character is turning a benign (partly because it's totally outdated, partly because it's not offensive, and partly because the Guybrush character doesn't advocate anything particularly dodgy, right off the top of my head) stereotype on its head and that's where the amusement comes from.
Now try picking a benign stereotype (see which ways I previously referred to in brackets in the previous paragraph) of a female character to derive amusement from in some way. Good luck with that. It's not because some people are offended by anything that stereotypes women, it's because pretty much every lingering female stereotype is either a direct negative stereotype of women or it's based on one!
Back to the quoted text - Guybrush needs help from Elaine Marley in Monkey Island 1. His ineptitude is generally considered amusing because guys aren't meant to be like that (it is in fact reinforcing a positive male stereotype). The fact that he needed help from Elaine in MI1 reinforces that, and involves a positive female stereotype (which again could be playing on stereotypes but the game doesn't push that point, to members of the audience can come to their own conclusions on that point). In terms of devising inoffensive characters, it's pretty much perfect.
Now reverse the roles and result in Gailbrush, exactly as the author described her. You're immediately reinforcing a negative, well-trodden stereotype of women, and a character who needs saving by a man, which again is the same old well-trodden stereotype which only an idiot is unable to empathise with the reasons why many people would it offensive (or more specifically how common it - and related negative stereotypes regarding women - are in gaming).
Now turn the whole example on its head, Gailbrush, the totally capable female character who sails the seas of male ineptitude (which would potentially be amusing because just like the Guybrush example, it plays with the audience's expectations and it's not reinforcing an existing negative stereotype of men). It's not original by any stretch of the imagination, but I bet it would have lots of people in this forum out in hives because "the feminists are taking over".
The author does approach an interesting and valid point IMO but fails to actually connect - Sidney Poitier's acting role choices spring to mind here, and here's a quote from Wikipedia:
IMO, Western media needs to work on including more aspirational female characters, suggesting things like "intelligence is good", "you can have physical prowess without being considered manly", and "good looks shouldn't be the end of your rainbow". Poitier obviously felt that ethnic minorities could do with some aspirational characters too. Once you have a bit more balance, more multi-faceted and flawed characters follow, because, to put it simply, Superman is boring as he doesn't have any flaws, and a Superman-only diet gets old fast.
You make good points, but honestly if we're gonna have cookie cutter female characters then why bother? Make no mistake, the more diversity in games the better, but if we can't put females in the same situations as men (good and bad) then I consider it a failure.
The sooner a scene like this can happen with women, the better.It's a start, that was part of my point. If game plot designers can successfully make cardboard-cutout female characters without screwing up in some awful stereotypical way, then at some point they can develop those characters beyond that.
You're making the author's point, dude.The author is potentially making an interesting point, but what he's missing with the Guybrush example is that the idea for the character is turning a benign (partly because it's totally outdated, partly because it's not offensive, and partly because the Guybrush character doesn't advocate anything particularly dodgy, right off the top of my head) stereotype on its head and that's where the amusement comes from.
Now try picking a benign stereotype (see which ways I previously referred to in brackets in the previous paragraph) of a female character to derive amusement from in some way. Good luck with that. It's not because some people are offended by anything that stereotypes women, it's because pretty much every lingering female stereotype is either a direct negative stereotype of women or it's based on one!
Back to the quoted text - Guybrush needs help from Elaine Marley in Monkey Island 1. His ineptitude is generally considered amusing because guys aren't meant to be like that (it is in fact reinforcing a positive male stereotype). The fact that he needed help from Elaine in MI1 reinforces that, and involves a positive female stereotype (which again could be playing on stereotypes but the game doesn't push that point, to members of the audience can come to their own conclusions on that point). In terms of devising inoffensive characters, it's pretty much perfect.
Now reverse the roles and result in Gailbrush, exactly as the author described her. You're immediately reinforcing a negative, well-trodden stereotype of women, and a character who needs saving by a man, which again is the same old well-trodden stereotype which only an idiot is unable to empathise with the reasons why many people would it offensive (or more specifically how common it - and related negative stereotypes regarding women - are in gaming).
Now turn the whole example on its head, Gailbrush, the totally capable female character who sails the seas of male ineptitude (which would potentially be amusing because just like the Guybrush example, it plays with the audience's expectations and it's not reinforcing an existing negative stereotype of men). It's not original by any stretch of the imagination, but I bet it would have lots of people in this forum out in hives because "the feminists are taking over".
The author does approach an interesting and valid point IMO but fails to actually connect - Sidney Poitier's acting role choices spring to mind here, and here's a quote from Wikipedia:
IMO, Western media needs to work on including more aspirational female characters, suggesting things like "intelligence is good", "you can have physical prowess without being considered manly", and "good looks shouldn't be the end of your rainbow". Poitier obviously felt that ethnic minorities could do with some aspirational characters too. Once you have a bit more balance, more multi-faceted and flawed characters follow, because, to put it simply, Superman is boring as he doesn't have any flaws, and a Superman-only diet gets old fast.
That only people who play video games should be involved in deciding how video games are made.
Which is a whole of lot people beyond 14 year old males.
25 benefits of being a female while gaming
Queeny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d6nRUBKdB4
Social Justice Weasels
Sargon of Akkad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhmOx0zThGg
And of course that 25 benefits video just failed to mention just who those people were..
"Cronjob
5 days ago (edited)
LIST OF GUYS APPEARING IN THE VIDEO
- Chris Remo - Composer (Gone Home, Spacebase DF-9)/Idle Thumbs podcast
- Nick Breckon - Writer (The Walking Dead game)/Idle Thumbs podcast
- Jake Rodkin - Indie dev (Firewatch)/Idle Thumbs podcast
- Sean Vanaman - Indie dev (Firewatch)/Idle Thumbs podcast
- Mitch Dyer - IGN editor
- Brian Altano - IGN executive director
- Tom Mc Shea - Journalist (IGN)
- Greg Miller - Journalist (IGN)
- Kevin VanOrd - Journalist (GameSpot)
- Arthus Gies - Polygon editor
- Tim Schafer - Founder of Double Fine
- Adam Sessler - Journalist (TheoryHead/Rev3Games)
- Ryan O'Donnell - Film maker (Area 5)
- Cesar Quintero - Film maker (Area 5)
- Scott Anderson - Indie dev (Shadow Physics)
- Matt Boch - Indie dev (Fantasia)/writer (A City Sleeps)
- Matt Chandronait - Film maker (Area 5)
- Matt Conn - Founder of GaymerX
- David Hellman - Artist (Braid)
- Jonathan Mann - YouTuber (SongADay)
- Jon McElroy - Indie dev (Funomena)
- Pierre Shorette - Writer (Telltale)
- Imran Siddiquee - Journalist (The Rep Project/freelance?)
- Dan Tennery-Spalding - Educator (Teachrdan)"
Not exactly a random or representative selection of anything. And failure to clearly disclose, frankly one of the major issues gamergate is about.
Brianna Wu probably lied about "fleeing" her home.
![]()
http://theralphretort.com/did-deceitful-brianna-wu-pull-biggest-con/
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/GamerGaters#announcements/detail/215375720898029445
Take-Two CEO on GTA V vs Target Australia: "Don't like it? Don't buy it"
by MundaneMatt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79Ur82SkoIA
https://www.change.org/p/target-wit...ders-to-commit-sexual-violence-and-kill-women
https://www.change.org/p/change-org...al-group-institution-either-public-or-private
http://techraptor.net/content/kmart-follows-target-removing-gta-v-sale
https://www.change.org/p/ea-games-remove-anita-sarkeesian-from-mirror-s-edge-2-game-development
#GamerGate: Porn Star Mercedes Carrera's Cam Show Charity Donations Declined!
David Pakman Show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK0C40JON-Q
#GamerGate Happenings Recap with Socks 10/12
NEET LIFE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gz7Yimh-jc
Ban the Bible, or GTA5?
Thunderf00t
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2iuJwOeRfo
Feminist WARS: The FARCE awakens
Thunderf00t
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6tD_RxtoY0
RE "25 Invisible Benefits of Gaming While Male"
Thunderf00t
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQhWEOaQ-Fg
![]()
![]()
And social justice hypocrisy(he's referring to Christopher Hitchens)
https://twitter.com/setfiresfeeljoy/status/539741657709969408
![]()
![]()
FTW - Gawker admits #GamerGate cost them "seven figures" in ad revenue!
MundaneMatt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iNxCNNsZfk
https://archive.today/J41zZ
And some additional pain for gawker from the hulkster, well deserved
http://theralphretort.com/hulk-hogan-laughs-as-insurance-company-turns-on-gawker/
![]()
WTF - Pleb Comics loses her job after SJW's doxx her and contact her employer
MundaneMatt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Doe6omL08bY
Roguestar, SJW's, and the battle for Patreon
MundaneMatt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RerUGtoJP20
Totalbiscuit wins an award, and some lose their spaghetti (#thegameawards)
MundaneMatt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nKxbuMw8wE
![]()
![]()
https://twitter.com/setfiresfeeljoy/status/539741657709969408
![]()
Threedog's #Gamergate News Radio Ep 12 w/ Special Guest Elly Prizeman
Oliver Campbell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQS7hw1W_mg
Anon academic writes up sarkeesian
Behind the Patina of Anita Sarkeesian: Gleanings of feminist victim politics.
http://gamergate.me/2014/12/behind-the-patina-sarkeesian/
Giant Sarkeesian Nostrils, San Franciscan Smug Fart smellers, #GamerGate & #NotYourShield
Liberal Lunacy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BooFhr8sqqc&feature=youtu.be&a
Nepotism
![]()
Ask A Dev 3
Bro Team Pill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHwgaiwlO3A
Jennifer Dawe Interview
maxskyfan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnbQsfgk5Rk
And christ... https://twitter.com/RogueStarGamez suspended again
Leigh Alexander enjoying her victimhood on a tropical island apparently.
https://twitter.com/setfiresfeeljoy/status/542286456795201536
and a window into the mind of these people.
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/12/10/The-Madness-Of-Queen-Shanley
Umm given the number of people commenting on what ALL gamers think, I dont believe either side is making any progress.
25 benefits of being a female while gaming
25 benefits of being a female while gaming
Queeny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d6nRUBKdB4
Social Justice Weasels
Sargon of Akkad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhmOx0zThGg
And of course that 25 benefits video just failed to mention just who those people were..
"Cronjob
5 days ago (edited)
LIST OF GUYS APPEARING IN THE VIDEO
- Chris Remo - Composer (Gone Home, Spacebase DF-9)/Idle Thumbs podcast
- Nick Breckon - Writer (The Walking Dead game)/Idle Thumbs podcast
- Jake Rodkin - Indie dev (Firewatch)/Idle Thumbs podcast
- Sean Vanaman - Indie dev (Firewatch)/Idle Thumbs podcast
- Mitch Dyer - IGN editor
- Brian Altano - IGN executive director
- Tom Mc Shea - Journalist (IGN)
- Greg Miller - Journalist (IGN)
- Kevin VanOrd - Journalist (GameSpot)
- Arthus Gies - Polygon editor
- Tim Schafer - Founder of Double Fine
- Adam Sessler - Journalist (TheoryHead/Rev3Games)
- Ryan O'Donnell - Film maker (Area 5)
- Cesar Quintero - Film maker (Area 5)
- Scott Anderson - Indie dev (Shadow Physics)
- Matt Boch - Indie dev (Fantasia)/writer (A City Sleeps)
- Matt Chandronait - Film maker (Area 5)
- Matt Conn - Founder of GaymerX
- David Hellman - Artist (Braid)
- Jonathan Mann - YouTuber (SongADay)
- Jon McElroy - Indie dev (Funomena)
- Pierre Shorette - Writer (Telltale)
- Imran Siddiquee - Journalist (The Rep Project/freelance?)
- Dan Tennery-Spalding - Educator (Teachrdan)"
Not exactly a random or representative selection of anything. And failure to clearly disclose, frankly one of the major issues gamergate is about.
Brianna Wu probably lied about "fleeing" her home.
![]()
http://theralphretort.com/did-deceitful-brianna-wu-pull-biggest-con/
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/GamerGaters#announcements/detail/215375720898029445
Take-Two CEO on GTA V vs Target Australia: "Don't like it? Don't buy it"
by MundaneMatt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79Ur82SkoIA
https://www.change.org/p/target-wit...ders-to-commit-sexual-violence-and-kill-women
https://www.change.org/p/change-org...al-group-institution-either-public-or-private
http://techraptor.net/content/kmart-follows-target-removing-gta-v-sale
https://www.change.org/p/ea-games-remove-anita-sarkeesian-from-mirror-s-edge-2-game-development
#GamerGate: Porn Star Mercedes Carrera's Cam Show Charity Donations Declined!
David Pakman Show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK0C40JON-Q
#GamerGate Happenings Recap with Socks 10/12
NEET LIFE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gz7Yimh-jc
Ban the Bible, or GTA5?
Thunderf00t
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2iuJwOeRfo
Feminist WARS: The FARCE awakens
Thunderf00t
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6tD_RxtoY0
RE "25 Invisible Benefits of Gaming While Male"
Thunderf00t
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQhWEOaQ-Fg
![]()
![]()
And social justice hypocrisy(he's referring to Christopher Hitchens)
https://twitter.com/setfiresfeeljoy/status/539741657709969408
![]()
![]()
FTW - Gawker admits #GamerGate cost them "seven figures" in ad revenue!
MundaneMatt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iNxCNNsZfk
https://archive.today/J41zZ
And some additional pain for gawker from the hulkster, well deserved
http://theralphretort.com/hulk-hogan-laughs-as-insurance-company-turns-on-gawker/
![]()
WTF - Pleb Comics loses her job after SJW's doxx her and contact her employer
MundaneMatt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Doe6omL08bY
Roguestar, SJW's, and the battle for Patreon
MundaneMatt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RerUGtoJP20
Totalbiscuit wins an award, and some lose their spaghetti (#thegameawards)
MundaneMatt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nKxbuMw8wE
![]()
![]()
https://twitter.com/setfiresfeeljoy/status/539741657709969408
![]()
Threedog's #Gamergate News Radio Ep 12 w/ Special Guest Elly Prizeman
Oliver Campbell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQS7hw1W_mg
Anon academic writes up sarkeesian
Behind the Patina of Anita Sarkeesian: Gleanings of feminist victim politics.
http://gamergate.me/2014/12/behind-the-patina-sarkeesian/
Giant Sarkeesian Nostrils, San Franciscan Smug Fart smellers, #GamerGate & #NotYourShield
Liberal Lunacy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BooFhr8sqqc&feature=youtu.be&a
Nepotism
![]()
Ask A Dev 3
Bro Team Pill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHwgaiwlO3A
Jennifer Dawe Interview
maxskyfan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnbQsfgk5Rk
And christ... https://twitter.com/RogueStarGamez suspended again
Leigh Alexander enjoying her victimhood on a tropical island apparently.
https://twitter.com/setfiresfeeljoy/status/542286456795201536
and a window into the mind of these people.
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/12/10/The-Madness-Of-Queen-Shanley