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Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
12,436
1,873
126
He owes people nothing. If you bought book A and enjoyed book A then great, but what in the hell does that have to do with book B? Did some of you sign a contract I wasn't aware of? The sense of entitlement among "fans" is borderline laughable.
An artist has an obligation to his art, and by extension, to the patrons of his art. By creating books that are in and of themselves NOT complete he has put an obligation on himself to complete that art.

If he wrote books that were complete stories that could be read and enjoyed by themselves, but could be extended with extra plot lines, then I would agree with you. But no one can read A Feast for Crows and think it is anything close to a complete work. He did not finish his job, but instead serialized the job into several smaller projects, with each project relying on the other ones. Seen in that light, it is clear that he does indeed have an obligation to at least put a good faith effort into finishing his work. Anything less is at least a breach of the social contract between the artist and the patrons.

Think of it this way, would you have read any of his books if you knew that he would not finish the series?
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
3,510
0
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Think of it this way, would you have read any of his books if you knew that he would not finish the series?
I wouldn't be as inclined, but that's not the scenario here. It's a matter of IF he finishes them, and both the reader and Martin believe that he will. When you and I started reading them (I just picked up the first book last week after watching the series for both seasons) we expected an ending, sure, but if it doesn't happen due to ailing health or what have you, then it sucks but that's life. There's a clear difference between the sense of entitlement I've seen here and read in other places (eg. he better finish it and not die, that fat fuck) and disappointment (sucks that he didn't finish it, but oh well).

The fans aren't owed anything other than the book they purchased. Is he taking too long to write them? No he isn't. He's taking long to write a quality series. I would rather have a quality series without an ending than a gigantic fuckup. Let him do his work at his own pace. Some of you seem to be forgetting that he wrote the previous works as well. He knows what he's doing.
 

Ashenor

Golden Member
May 9, 2012
1,227
0
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When i purchase something that is started as a series, i expect the series to continue on in a timely matter, especially if its successful and they are getting rich off it.

This book series has helped him live the busy life he lives, so to say he does not owe it to the fans is crazy. If the fans did not buy the books, there would be no show, no apperances for him to do, which would give him plenty of time to write.

I see no excuse why it takes longer then 2 years to write a new book, unless you really just are not working anymore. I have to assume if writers maintained a 20-30 hour work week throughout the year it would not be a issue. I am guessing based off success there are months on end with no work or little of it.
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
3,510
0
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This book series has helped him live the busy life he lives, so to say he does not owe it to the fans is crazy. If the fans did not buy the books, there would be no show, no apperances for him to do, which would give him plenty of time to write.
You don't owe him anything and he doesn't owe you anything. If you like a book then go ahead and buy it. If he writes something then he goes ahead and sells it.

I see no excuse why it takes longer then 2 years to write a new book, unless you really just are not working anymore.
w0t? Really? Some books take years to write; decades even. It has to do with the author and what he/she can come up with. Not everyone is a crazy ass Jack Kerouac where they chain themselves to a chair and pop shit out in two weeks. Books take time. Great books take even more time. I get that you're impatient but you need to wake the fuck up. It's just a book and a series. If you're getting pissy that he's not writing fast enough then don't buy the books. If the TV series isn't getting to-air ready quickly enough for you then don't watch it. The point here is nobody's forcing anything either way and nor should they be. Nobody is entitled to anything. It's just a fucking book/TV show. Grow up.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
13,662
1,771
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The fans aren't owed anything other than the book they purchased. Is he taking too long to write them? No he isn't. He's taking long to write a quality series. QUOTE]

Steven Erickson just finished the tenth book of the Malazan series (which I would argue is just as good or better the ASOIAF), and Martin had a freaking three year head start.
 

Ashenor

Golden Member
May 9, 2012
1,227
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You don't owe him anything and he doesn't owe you anything. If you like a book then go ahead and buy it. If he writes something then he goes ahead and sells it.



w0t? Really? Some books take years to write; decades even. It has to do with the author and what he/she can come up with. Not everyone is a crazy ass Jack Kerouac where they chain themselves to a chair and pop shit out in two weeks. Books take time. Great books take even more time. I get that you're impatient but you need to wake the fuck up. It's just a book and a series. If you're getting pissy that he's not writing fast enough then don't buy the books. If the TV series isn't getting to-air ready quickly enough for you then don't watch it. The point here is nobody's forcing anything either way and nor should they be. Nobody is entitled to anything. It's just a fucking book/TV show. Grow up.
Cry more, bottom line as they get money they get lazy, but way to keep making excuses.
 

Ashenor

Golden Member
May 9, 2012
1,227
0
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The fans aren't owed anything other than the book they purchased. Is he taking too long to write them? No he isn't. He's taking long to write a quality series. QUOTE]

Steven Erickson just finished the tenth book of the Malazan series (which I would argue is just as good or better the ASOIAF), and Martin had a freaking three year head start.
How are those? Not sure if i want to tackle the wheel of time, the Malazan, the farseer series or what next.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
60,240
3,148
126
I see no excuse why it takes longer then 2 years to write a new book, unless you really just are not working anymore. I have to assume if writers maintained a 20-30 hour work week throughout the year it would not be a issue. I am guessing based off success there are months on end with no work or little of it.
LOL. They guy has published like 6,000 pages worth of material over the course of the series. That's just published stuff and not counting wadded up unused script that got tossed which could easily account for that much or more additional writing on these settings and characters. Trying to keep the plotlines straight, moving, and readable is no small feat with something as massive as this has become. You can tell he's already lost some steam and it's starting to wear on the readers. The last two books were almost a labor to read compared to the first three.

When you've managed to bring this many readers/fans into your world you run into damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. You have people screaming for more material. And I'm sure he could just shit something out in a hurry and then be nitpicked incessantly by fans with nothing better to do. Or he could wait, figure out WTF to do and put something out he was happy with. And be picked apart for taking too long.
 

Ashenor

Golden Member
May 9, 2012
1,227
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LOL. They guy has published like 6,000 pages worth of material over the course of the series. That's just published stuff and not counting wadded up unused script that got tossed which could easily account for that much or more additional writing on these settings and characters. Trying to keep the plotlines straight, moving, and readable is no small feat with something as massive as this has become. You can tell he's already lost some steam and it's starting to wear on the readers. The last two books were almost a labor to read compared to the first three.

When you've managed to bring this many readers/fans into your world you run into damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. You have people screaming for more material. And I'm sure he could just shit something out in a hurry and then be nitpicked incessantly by fans with nothing better to do. Or he could wait, figure out WTF to do and put something out he was happy with. And be picked apart for taking too long.
I understand what your saying, but how much do you think he writes now based on when he was working on his first book? Maybe its just a wild guess but even with plot lines and everything in between i just can't imagine books taking 2+ years if they are working dilligently on them.

Now i understand with success comes comfort, and maybe desire goes down because keeping the ball rolling is a lot harder when you have millions waiting to see where it goes.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
13,662
1,771
126
How are those? Not sure if i want to tackle the wheel of time, the Malazan, the farseer series or what next.
Malazan is a really enjoyable series, but very "meaty" for lack of a better term. Took me a while to get through each book, due to having to go back a lot and refer to previous events and parallel plot lines.

In terms of quality, I'd say:

Malazan > Farseer > Wheel of Time

But it might be a good idea to knock out the 12 Farseer books first. You could easily finish those in less than half the time of either of the other two series.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
60,240
3,148
126
I wonder if George would ever consider just letting HBO tie things off for him. It's already been stated that he left blueprints for what to do in the event he wasn't around when they get to the end of the currently published material. With the production value and attention that HBO gives to their series, it's not outlandish to think that he could work hand in hand for the screenplay of a final two seasons and just go "direct to video" so to speak with it. We don't need to be bothered with 300 pages of describing the meals people were eating and all of the other fluff that happens in many of his books.
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
3,510
0
0
Cry more, bottom line as they get money they get lazy, but way to keep making excuses.
When i purchase something that is started as a series, i expect the series to continue on in a timely matter, especially if its successful and they are getting rich off it.
Sorry, who's crying again?

I get that you're impatient but you need to wake the fuck up. It's just a book and a series. If you're getting pissy that he's not writing fast enough then don't buy the books. If the TV series isn't getting to-air ready quickly enough for you then don't watch it. The point here is nobody's forcing anything either way and nor should they be. Nobody is entitled to anything. It's just a fucking book/TV show. Grow up.
Ok cool, because you just tried to reverse roles on me. If GoT ended today I wouldn't give 2 fucks. You and others I've seen here, otoh, would probably cry yourself to sleep and keep whining on these boards. He's writing more and he's taking his time. We get that you don't like it but he's not entitled to hurry his ass up just like you're not entitled to buy his next book.



I wonder if George would ever consider just letting HBO tie things off for him. It's already been stated that he left blueprints for what to do in the event he wasn't around when they get to the end of the currently published material.
It's been said the series would finish with a proper ending as Martin has already told them what will happen in the event he winds up pushing up daisies. What that entails in respect to tying the show and book together, though, is another matter I'd suppose.
 

Ashenor

Golden Member
May 9, 2012
1,227
0
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Sorry, who's crying again?



Ok cool, because you just tried to reverse roles on me. If GoT ended today I wouldn't give 2 fucks. You and others I've seen here, otoh, would probably cry yourself to sleep and keep whining on these boards. He's writing more and he's taking his time. We get that you don't like it but he's not entitled to hurry his ass up just like you're not entitled to buy his next book.





It's been said the series would finish with a proper ending as Martin has already told them what will happen in the event he winds up pushing up daisies. What that entails in respect to tying the show and book together, though, is another matter I'd suppose.

Impressive quoting yourself, you are the TO of the boards here.

Trust me i don't lose sleep over it, but i still think he just got rich, fatter, and lazy.
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
8,336
342
126
Sucks most only care about getting their next two books more than the dude's life.
Wow i actually agree with you for once. People are really obnoxious about fantasy series. They act like they are somehow entitled to a book every year and if they don't get it and it's not perfect they somehow got ripped off. I think the 3 lord of the rings books took over a decade to write, and you know what I'm glad he took his time. No matter how long it takes to write a book, if it's good it was worth it. It reminds me of a Bill Hicks quote:

"Thank you. How you doing folks? Me too. You gotta bear with me, I'm very tired, very tired of traveling, and very tired of doing comedy, and very tired of staring out at your vacant faces looking back at me, wanting me to fill your empty lives with humor you couldn't possibly think of yourselves. Good evening."

It's the trade off of being a successful writer.

Is it justified? who knows?

However, most aspiring writers would kill to have a fraction of George R.R. Martin's or Stephen King's success.

I think what happened to Robert Jordan woke ASOI&F fans up to a very real possibility.

If I had written Stephen King one of those hurry up and finish this series letters yeah it would sting, however, his charitable contributions to local Fire Stations and Libraries is laudable no matter what my opinion of him as a writer is.

Would I write a letter to an author that was just "finish this series asap. mmmk?"

No, I haven't written any fan letters to anyone either though.

I'm free to grumble about having to wait for the conclusion of a very good series, considering the reality of a possibility that Mr. Martin himself has acknowledged by providing the series producers with an outline of the rest of the books go.
 

Ashenor

Golden Member
May 9, 2012
1,227
0
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We should get a group of people together here and write a book series. We will all promise not to get fat and lazy and we can pump out 3 books a year and sell a bizzilion books a year!

Who is with me??
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,214
215
106
We don't need to be bothered with 300 pages of describing the meals people were eating and all of the other fluff that happens in many of his books.
lol, if I had a dime for every time he mentioned someone/someplace/something smelling like shit, I'd be a millionaire.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,860
0
71
I think the 3 lord of the rings books took over a decade to write, and you know what I'm glad he took his time. No matter how long it takes to write a book, if it's good it was worth it.
It took twelve years to write, but he wrote it all first and then released it. In fact, Tolkien wanted the whole thing in a single book but the publisher split it into the three we know to make it easier on the reader.

I'm split. On the one hand, pressuring an author to finish a series because you want it to end before they do results in Stephen King's The Dark Tower happening. The quality of the last three books was not what it was for the first four. Though you could likely also make the case that he was sober for the last three and that had a factor. On the other hand, you buy into a series with the assumption the author is going to make his best effort to finish said series. Otherwise you wouldn't start in the first place and give them your money.
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,541
16
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New cast members for season 3, which has already started filming:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpSDSgChsaI

Diana Rigg as Lady Olenna Tyrell
Mackenzie Crook as Orell
Clive Russell as Bryndon “The Blackfish” Tully
Nathalie Emannuel as Missandei
Kerry Ingram as Shireen Baratheon
Paul Kaye as Thoros of Myr
Thomas Brodie-Sangster as Jojen Reed
Ellie Kendrick as Meera Reed
Richard Dormer as Beric Dondarrion
Kristofer Hivju as Tormund Giantsbane
Philip McGinley as Anguy
Tara Fitzgerald as Selyse Baratheon
Tobias Menzies as Edmure Tully
Anton Lesser as Qyburn
 

steve wilson

Senior member
Sep 18, 2004
837
0
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Would absolutely love him to finish the books, but he is not obligated to do so and he does not owe it to anyone. It is his life to lead as he pleases and at his age he might not have all that long left. 64 years old ... he could live another 40 years... but after 70 generally peoples health declines.

I wish he would let someone else finish the books if he dies...but he has said no :(
 

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