Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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Apr 5, 2005
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As soon as that scene started and they showed Arya walking in with Litle Finger on the side with that fucking smirk I want to slap off his face every time I see him, I went to my wife "Little Finger is not making it out of here alive he has been played." It was pretty obvious to me that was coming.

The actor that lays him just really bothers me. I have not liked him since I first saw him as the major on The Wire.
He plays great assholes.
 
Aug 17, 2000
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So, I'm wondering how they're going to handle Bronn now that Jamie left. The whole reason Bronn and Podric when off to a get a drink is that either Jerome Flynn or Lena Headey has it written into their contract that they'll never have to appear in a scene with the other. I guess they had a relationship that ended badly in real life.
 
Jul 12, 2006
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So, I'm wondering how they're going to handle Bronn now that Jamie left. The whole reason Bronn and Podric when off to a get a drink is that either Jerome Flynn or Lena Headey has it written into their contract that they'll never have to appear in a scene with the other. I guess they had a relationship that ended badly in real life.
Bronn already said that his involvement ends when dragons show up and set fire to whoever he's fighting for. He's either going to head north and fight with Danny (unlikely, because he probably doesn't want to bother with the dead people), or head off to his castle and nail his lady some more.
 

brainhulk

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2007
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I feel Littlefinger should have had a better ending. Something more exciting, more confusion on his part, and more suffering.
He has been a major character since the beginning and Aiden Gillen's performance was excellent.
Alas with the rush to end things, it was not to be.
 

PJFrylar

Senior member
Apr 17, 2016
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Little Finger did admit to throwing Lysa out the moon door. He admitted to murder.
Sansa also personally witnessed that, which is why he didn't bother lying about it and just admitted it.
 
Jul 12, 2006
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Little Finger did admit to throwing Lysa out the moon door. He admitted to murder.
It's not about him admitting to the crime, it's about the one who sentences the accused carrying out the sentence. It's a big deal in the north and was a very central part of the very first episode when Ned beheaded the Nightswatchmen that fled his duty, and Ned insisted that Bran be present to understand the duty of all Lords of the North. It came up again when Robb lopped off the head of old man Carstark for murdering the young Lannister kids that they held captive.

In this criticism, Sansa should have been the one to carry out Littlefinger's sentence, as it is her sworn duty. However, I think that her aim will be to do things differently than the previous Starks, and either this is one of those things (I don't really buy it, actually), or it is just weak writing to give us a little moment of vengeance (more likely).
 
Apr 19, 2001
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It's not about him admitting to the crime, it's about the one who sentences the accused carrying out the sentence. It's a big deal in the north and was a very central part of the very first episode when Ned beheaded the Nightswatchmen that fled his duty, and Ned insisted that Bran be present to understand the duty of all Lords of the North. It came up again when Robb lopped off the head of old man Carstark for murdering the young Lannister kids that they held captive.

In this criticism, Sansa should have been the one to carry out Littlefinger's sentence, as it is her sworn duty. However, I think that her aim will be to do things differently than the previous Starks, and either this is one of those things (I don't really buy it, actually), or it is just weak writing to give us a little moment of vengeance (more likely).
It's more of a bow to reality. Stop trying to read so much nuance into something simple. Has Sansa even held a sword for a single second during the entire series? There's no way it's believable to have her be able to pick up a giant broadsword or axe and start lopping off heads just because Ned did things that way. It's not her "sworn duty" to personally perform executions.
 

Spjut

Senior member
Apr 9, 2011
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No, it was never about giving the dead a way to break the wall, .there were other ways for the Night's King to get south. The pieces were in place to have the Wall's magic fail due to Bran passing under it or to have the sea freeze and the dead simply walk around the side of it. The journey north was about Dany losing a dragon and the Night's King getting one. That was the whole purpose of the mission, to balance dragon power.
I would so much have preferred for the NK to attempt to pass the Wall in any of those ways, and Jon just having a small defensive force to hold them off, and sends ravens requesting help.

The dragon dying in an actual battle at the wall would have been so much better. As it is now, Cersei didn't give a shit about the wight (which everyone already knew) and it looks like it just resulted in her seeing an opportunity to invade the North. And it also looks like the the Wall would have stopped the NK if he didn't get that dragon.

Cersei's scheming is the only plot I liked in this episode. She showed she's still the same character from the previous seasons.
 

DrunkenSano

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2008
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As soon as that scene started and they showed Arya walking in with Litle Finger on the side with that fucking smirk I want to slap off his face every time I see him, I went to my wife "Little Finger is not making it out of here alive he has been played." It was pretty obvious to me that was coming.

The actor that lays him just really bothers me. I have not liked him since I first saw him as the major on The Wire.
Yeah, pretty sure most people saw it coming.

Would be awesome if it was a reverse honey pot. Arya knows that Little Finger was trying to honey pot her and has already plotted this with Sansa, and they end up killing Little Finger. They just need the proof to show the Vale lords so they don't lose the men from there.
The story had to go in this direction, with the White Walkers coming. If there were no White Walkers, I can see the writers pushing Littlefinger's agenda more. With White Walkers, the story can't have Littlefinger running wild since he'll fuck up the north, probably end up selling the Starks out to the Lannisters somehow, then there would be no one to defend against the Night King and it'd be an easy victory for the White Walkers.
 

Spjut

Senior member
Apr 9, 2011
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Little Finger did admit to throwing Lysa out the moon door. He admitted to murder.
That was also cheap. Why the hell would Littlefinger admit murder so easily? The real Littlefinger would have denied everything.
Littlefinger's underlings had an easy time just accepting the words of Starks. They should have let Bran say some things only his underlings knew about, so his underlings knew he was talking the truth.
 

Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
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That was also cheap. Why the hell would Littlefinger admit murder so easily? The real Littlefinger would have denied everything.
Littlefinger's underlings had an easy time just accepting the words of Starks. They should have let Bran say some things only his underlings knew about, so his underlings knew he was talking the truth.
Littlefinger's underlings despised him. Remember, the one who refused his order directly was one that he clashed with before insinuating himself in to their house.

He also knew Bran could see, and knew that he'd not win the denial game when they'd trust Bran over him. He assumed that pleading would work and that Sansa was weak enough to give in to that.
 
Apr 19, 2001
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And it also looks like the the Wall would have stopped the NK if he didn't get that dragon.
You understand this isn't real, right?

The Wall would never have stopped the NK. The Wall couldn't possibly stop the NK. From scene 1 of episode 1 or page 1 of book 1 the NK was 100% sure to make it past the Wall because that's what every single second of this has been leading to. They could have included a magic artifact that vaporized ice. The NK's touch of Bran could dispel the wards. The sea could freeze so that the dead could walk around it or they could have written 1000 other ways to do it into the story. They used the dragon method because the show is turning into Michael Bay does fantasy. The showrunners are way too in love with their special effects and have no interest in a coherent storyline.

From the very first second they showed the dragons in battle it was completely clear that they were overpowered and needed to be nerfed,. If Dany had three and nobody else had any there was no endgame story. The NK could have had a billion wights and Cersei could have hired every mercenary alive and Dany would still win easily. The NK getting a dragon WAS NOT about giving him a way to bypass the Wall, it was about giving him a weapon to use in the end game because otherwise the armies of the dead had no chance.
 

Spjut

Senior member
Apr 9, 2011
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Littlefinger's underlings despised him. Remember, the one who refused his order directly was one that he clashed with before insinuating himself in to their house.

He also knew Bran could see, and knew that he'd not win the denial game when they'd trust Bran over him. He assumed that pleading would work and that Sansa was weak enough to give in to that.
He and the other underlings had still followed him up until that scene. The show makes it seem they required very little actual proof to suddenly go against LF, and the strongest proof was provided by LF just going out of his character and plead instead of denying.
The problem is that we never saw Bran convince any of his underlings that he could see everything that has happened. The judge was a Stark and the same person who was witness to Lysa's murder. The testimony about LF betraying Ned came from Bran Stark. They should have shown something that would have given the underlings reason to trust an all-Stark jury.
 
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Spjut

Senior member
Apr 9, 2011
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You understand this isn't real, right?

The Wall would never have stopped the NK. The Wall couldn't possibly stop the NK. From scene 1 of episode 1 or page 1 of book 1 the NK was 100% sure to make it past the Wall because that's what every single second of this has been leading to. They could have included a magic artifact that vaporized ice. The NK's touch of Bran could dispel the wards. The sea could freeze so that the dead could walk around it or they could have written 1000 other ways to do it into the story. They used the dragon method because the show is turning into Michael Bay does fantasy. The showrunners are way too in love with their special effects and have no interest in a coherent storyline.

From the very first second they showed the dragons in battle it was completely clear that they were overpowered and needed to be nerfed,. If Dany had three and nobody else had any there was no endgame story. The NK could have had a billion wights and Cersei could have hired every mercenary alive and Dany would still win easily. The NK getting a dragon WAS NOT about giving him a way to bypass the Wall, it was about giving him a weapon to use in the end game because otherwise the armies of the dead had no chance.
The show has never ever shown that the NK had anything that would allow him to break the wall easily. People say he could freeze the water, but we saw in the Hardhome episode that he didn't pursue them, why wouldn't he do that if he could freeze the water?
I'm not opposed to the NK getting a dragon, I'm opposed to the way he got it and how the show makes it seem like he wouldn't have any means to break the wall otherwise, other than his army fighting their way through it.
If the writers wanted to show how overpowered the dragons are, they did a bad job. Night King almost got a second dragon with his auto aim and it looks like Daenerys didn't even get a third of his army.

IIRC, in the books, the Wall is said to be enchanted by magic, and they've never said that breaking the magic means the Wall will fall down. The closest we've gotten reading about how the magic works IIRC is that Jon doesn't feel the connection with Ghost when they're on the different sides, and that Coldhands says he can't pass. On the other hand, the wights in book 1 and season 1 were able to revive on the other side and went after the Lord Commander. Also, in the book, we haven't read about the Others' actual leader yet.

However the books will handle the Wall being breached or falling down, whether be it the horn of Joramun or something else, I'm damn sure it'll make alot more sense than in the show.
 
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Apr 19, 2001
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The show has never ever shown that the NK had anything that would allow him to break the wall easily. People say he could freeze the water, but we saw in the Hardhome episode that he didn't pursue them, why wouldn't he do that if he could freeze the water?
Are you really this dense? The NK doesn't need to freeze water. Water freezes in winter. Even sea water freezes all by itself if it gets cold enough. And they already had the story elements in place to explain how the touch of the NK on Bran breaks magical wards. THEY FREAKING USED IT ALREADY. The showrunners decided to use the dragon because the special effects appeal to the monumentally stupid people who can't follow or understand the story that USED TO hold things together.

The NK needed to be given a dragon for what comes next, not to get past the Wall. Period.
 

Spjut

Senior member
Apr 9, 2011
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Are you really this dense? The NK doesn't need to freeze water. Water freezes in winter. Even sea water freezes all by itself if it gets cold enough. And they already had the story elements in place to explain how the touch of the NK on Bran breaks magical wards. THEY FREAKING USED IT ALREADY. The showrunners decided to use the dragon because the special effects appeal to the monumentally stupid people who can't follow or understand the story that USED TO hold things together.

The NK needed to be given a dragon for what comes next, not to get past the Wall. Period.
You shouldn't insult other users.

However, in Season 6, the water hadn't frozen at Hardhome. If you see the episode showing the Wall at Eastwatch, you can see that the Wall extends quite far into the sea, and the episode where Jon arrives at Eastwatch, the shore was fully free of ice.

If the NK didn't need the dragon to get past the wall, they shouldn't have given him a dragon to destroy the wall with. He should have gotten the dragon while or after breaching the wall. Because the show ultimately makes it seem like they couldn't have destroyed the wall without it, or in any way go around it.
The magical ward we saw at three eyed raven's cave was just a magical barrier. The Wall is a physical wall with magical enhancements.
 
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Jun 23, 2005
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I feel Littlefinger should have had a better ending. Something more exciting, more confusion on his part, and more suffering.
He has been a major character since the beginning and Aiden Gillen's performance was excellent.
Alas with the rush to end things, it was not to be.
His end was so abrupt this season. Only a couple of implausible scenes lead up to it and then bam. His end needed more of a slow burn built up over a couple seasons, as opposed to a couple of episodes.
 
Aug 17, 2000
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I was just reading some fan theories and someone brought up the fact the Night King's dragon is even more ominous because gives the NK mobility and he now can travel anywhere in Westeros and find piles of dead bodies from all the battles that have gone on and raise the dead to found a new army. So, it might not just be the slogging wights coming from the north, now fighting might happen on many fronts
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Clearly no one really liked Littlefinger. But he climbed the ranks at wielded power because he always made himself useful to powerful people. Of course, he also created the need for his usefulness in the first place. Perhaps he underestimated Arya from the beginning. But I think more likely he realized she was too dangerous to try to use as a pawn.
 

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