Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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brainhulk

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2007
9,418
453
126
The Raven travels through time and space through the trees, I suspect he values them above all else.

My theory is Bran with his Greensight sees all the destruction men throughout history wrought upon the land and trees, and decides they are good for nothing. All they do is endlessly wage war, destroy stuff, and multiply. Rinse, repeat.

Bran is a very powerful treehugger that wants to say bye bye to stupid humans.
 

Bird222

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,650
132
106
Can someone explain the Bran is the Night King theory, in terms of his motivation to end the world of men? If it is Bran, why is he pissed off?
In addition, can someone explain why the children of the forest created the White Walkers?
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,207
216
106
In addition, can someone explain why the children of the forest created the White Walkers?
I believe they were created to fight the First Men, who were killing the children of the forest (or destroying their forests, something like that).
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
9,871
4,032
136
I agree that some version of showing the time elapse and the struggle, building characters (including personality of the white walkers as not being in a hurry), etc. would have been much better. But it also wouldn't have taken all that to massively patch those big holes.
Nope. Something else would have been better than what was done.
 

z1ggy

Diamond Member
May 17, 2008
9,945
56
91
In addition, can someone explain why the children of the forest created the White Walkers?
As others said... they made WW's as help/defense against First Men.

We are shown scenes of Leaf shoving the dragon glass (if I recall?) dagger into a First Man as he's tied to the tree, becoming Night King.
 

Bird222

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,650
132
106
As others said... they made WW's as help/defense against First Men.

We are shown scenes of Leaf shoving the dragon glass (if I recall?) dagger into a First Man as he's tied to the tree, becoming Night King.
But then didn't they have to team up with the first men to defeat the WW's?
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
1,993
126
The knowledge to make Valyrian steel has been lost. Guessing process requires dragon fire.

People can work with Valyrian steel but they need to melt existing Valyrian steel to do so. They can't make it.
Wait, wait, wait! I've got a new theory!

Okay, let's say making Valyrian steel required some arcane knowledge, a master smith and dragon fire. Or maybe dragon fire and the blood of a king. They've got that. Jon has an affinity with dragons, he's friends with Sam who might have learned some crazy shit at the Citadel and it no doubt heading back north to reunite with Jon and Gendry will be there with them. I can't figure out why Gendry is back, but it damn sure wasn't for him to run to The Wall. He's got to actually do something important, maybe that's it. Jon, the dragons, Sam and Gendry team up and rediscover the secret of making Valyrian steel. They crank out a bunch of weapons and that's how they win against the Night's King.

Or if you want to get really screwy, Gendry is friends with Arya too. They create a Valyrian steel weapon for her to use and she assassinates the Night's King using her Faceless Man training. Valar Morgulhis, even undead men must die.
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,686
1,897
126
I loved the idea of just about every bad@ss on the show ranging north of the wall, but their objective made no sense. Why does Cersei need to see a wight when she has her own Clegane zombie?

Also, we are officially into red shirt territory. Jon Snow's plot armor now surrounds the Hound, Gendry, horny ginger and Ser Jorah Friendzone. Thoros never stood a chance, which means Beric is as good as dead, unless he passes his power to someone else as he does in the book.

Once Jon and Dany connected on the ground, how hard would it have been to tell her to concentrate all three dragons on the Night King?

Also, how many times do we need to see Jon Snow staring at insurmountable odds only to get the Tolkien giant eagles rescue?

I think Bran is the Night King. I hope we get Cleganebowl next week, with Sandor fittingly killing his brother using fire.

Time for Arya to spring her trap on Littlefinger.
 

Bird222

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,650
132
106
Wait, wait, wait! I've got a new theory!

Okay, let's say making Valyrian steel required some arcane knowledge, a master smith and dragon fire. Or maybe dragon fire and the blood of a king. They've got that. Jon has an affinity with dragons, he's friends with Sam who might have learned some crazy shit at the Citadel and it no doubt heading back north to reunite with Jon and Gendry will be there with them. I can't figure out why Gendry is back, but it damn sure wasn't for him to run to The Wall. He's got to actually do something important, maybe that's it. Jon, the dragons, Sam and Gendry team up and rediscover the secret of making Valyrian steel. They crank out a bunch of weapons and that's how they win against the Night's King.

Or if you want to get really screwy, Gendry is friends with Arya too. They create a Valyrian steel weapon for her to use and she assassinates the Night's King using her Faceless Man training. Valar Morgulhis, even undead men must die.
Makes a lot of sense.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
306
126
If NK doesn't kill one in the air, the dragon doesn't fall through the ice. if the dragon doesn't fall through the ice then the other dragons and catch that dragon on fire making sure that he is not resurrected.
 

Artorias

Golden Member
Feb 8, 2014
1,634
806
136
The writing on this show has gone way down. I still enjoy the show for its production values an cinematography but its lost the magic of the first four seasons.

The entire trip north was absurd, it was only done so they could give the Night King an Ice Dragon.

Were they really doing it to get Cersei to help with the Night King? I cant believe they couldn't have had Tyrion explain how bat shit insane she is and is basically the Mad Queen.

I guess they could show the general population what the real threat it is, but why the hell not do that seasons ago?

GRRM wasn't going to ever finish the books before the shows end, and he should have been executive producer the whole way. I cant believe he really approves with how the show is being written.
 

Artorias

Golden Member
Feb 8, 2014
1,634
806
136
is he still allowed to write an episode a season? i think it would be amusing if he wrote the finale. hey he's not busy anyway.
My hope is that he does all of the writing for the least season, at least they could salvage the last few years. I know there is not much chance of that happening though.

Also these 7 episodes a season is total crap. There is too much fast traveling and not enough breathing room for the characters to develop.

Some of the characters on the show haven't seen each other in years and all we get are 5 min sequences of them meeting up. For example the Tyrion and Jamie meet up was such a wasted opportunity, if this was written like the first three years we would have had an award winning acting performance from these actors. Are they trying to get Jamie on the redemption arc or not? They don't seem to be trying at all to convey that.
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
9,871
4,032
136
Except that's out of character. Not that the show cares about such things, they clearly morph Cersei, Sansa and Arya's behavior to whatever suits the writers whim at the time, but that would be yet another foolish inconsistency introduced for no reason. The dead have never showed the slightest sign of patience, of being eternal, of waiting out humanity via siege. Every single time the dead have attacked it's been a mad rush, a frenzy to maim and mangle. They don't have patience and they don't understand or care about casualties on their side. They go 100% until destroyed or until the living are dead. And there's no need to get away from that.

Interchange has is completely right. Strand them on that little island with some food and some firewood and show the passage of time. Day 1 they're fine, day 2 they're suffering, day 3 they're really hurting and discuss how long it might take for rescue if Dany comes via dragon. Day 4 they resort to eating their dead and are discussing how they can go out in a blaze of glory to take as many undead with them and most importantly make sure they're not turned to join the undead army. They discuss killing each other, drowning, burning themselves, etc to see what would be best. It would be plenty of creepy, it fixes the time problems, it's a MUCH better scene, it keeps everyone in character and it would take literally 2 minutes of screen time.
I don't know I necessary agree with that. The WWs have spent the better part of 7 seasons pissing about beyond the wall, meanwhile Gendry jogged his ass back to Eastwatch in 37 minutes. What have they been doing since Hardhome, other than letting Men organize a defense over the last 2 seasons? Certainly not moving with strategic urgency. LOL.


In actual seriousness, what is the level of autonomy of the wights from the WW? They are obviously bound servants, but have the books/show made clear how much the NK controls them?
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
1,993
126
Also, we are officially into red shirt territory. Jon Snow's plot armor now surrounds the Hound, Gendry, horny ginger and Ser Jorah Friendzone. Thoros never stood a chance, which means Beric is as good as dead, unless he passes his power to someone else as he does in the book.
I don't think any of those guys are safe even if they surround Jon. As much as I want to see the CleganeBowl or Sandor reunite with Arya both of those are longshots now. Gregor has been so invisible that plotline seems to be dead. Tormund is expendable, he might die saving Brienne (hope he gets some first) and Jorah might die saving Dany (there's no way he's getting some) . That leaves Gendry, there's a reason he's back, but once he accomplishes whatever that is he's probably toast. Jon is the only one of that group who's guaranteed to be alive until the last episode.
 

tommo123

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2005
2,617
47
91
What's interesting about Bran and the NK is that the NK was able to see him. This means either Bran and the NK have similar abilities, or Bran was physically there somehow.

It takes fairly big leaps to assume Bran is essentially just time traveling into the past over and over, but given the evidence and some of the stories, it's possible.

It's possible that the ultimate goal of the NK is not to kill everybody in Westeros; in fact far from it. This i my own theory, but I think the NK is actually trying to kill Bran, and Bran alone. Everybody else is just a causality of this end goal. If Bran = NK, then if the NK can kill bran, then the NK could never exist in the first place and thus mankind is saved.

Hmmmmm although that assumes Bran did something during history to mess up and have somebody turned into the night king to begin with. Again... leap of a story.
maybe he warged in but lost himself for a time (as they warned against staying warged for too long), did some heinous crap and later on took control again. now to undo all that it doesn't matter how many people the NK kills since if he can kill bran then it's all undone anyway.
 

tommo123

Platinum Member
Sep 25, 2005
2,617
47
91
My hope is that he does all of the writing for the least season, at least they could salvage the last few years. I know there is not much chance of that happening though.

Also these 7 episodes a season is total crap. There is too much fast traveling and not enough breathing room for the characters to develop.

Some of the characters on the show haven't seen each other in years and all we get are 5 min sequences of them meeting up. For example the Tyrion and Jamie meet up was such a wasted opportunity, if this was written like the first three years we would have had an award winning acting performance from these actors. Are they trying to get Jamie on the redemption arc or not? They don't seem to be trying at all to convey that.
how can he possibly be redeemed? nothing he does (bar killing bran assuming the NK theories hold) will undo what is done. if you're thinking in terms of his personality then he's already been changed. i watched early eps yest. where he fights sean bean and the personality change is drastic from the jamie we have now. i doubt the current jamie would push a little boy out a window to his death while smiling.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
106,662
21,780
146
My hope is that he does all of the writing for the least season, at least they could salvage the last few years. I know there is not much chance of that happening though.

Also these 7 episodes a season is total crap. There is too much fast traveling and not enough breathing room for the characters to develop.

Some of the characters on the show haven't seen each other in years and all we get are 5 min sequences of them meeting up. For example the Tyrion and Jamie meet up was such a wasted opportunity, if this was written like the first three years we would have had an award winning acting performance from these actors. Are they trying to get Jamie on the redemption arc or not? They don't seem to be trying at all to convey that.
The previous 6 seasons weren't enough time for the characters to develop? We still need that more of that?

please.

We're well into the third act and we're hitting the falling action here. IF these characters aren't yet developed, then they need to get off the train. Stuff has to happen at some point, might as well be at the end, right?

I'm sure RR Martin doesn't give a shit about how things turn out in the show. $$$$$$$$$ :D
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
106,662
21,780
146
I don't think any of those guys are safe even if they surround Jon. As much as I want to see the CleganeBowl or Sandor reunite with Arya both of those are longshots now. Gregor has been so invisible that plotline seems to be dead. Tormund is expendable, he might die saving Brienne (hope he gets some first) and Jorah might die saving Dany (there's no way he's getting some) . That leaves Gendry, there's a reason he's back, but once he accomplishes whatever that is he's probably toast. Jon is the only one of that group who's guaranteed to be alive until the last episode.
well, the penultimate episode, at least. ;)
 

z1ggy

Diamond Member
May 17, 2008
9,945
56
91
For all you guys complaining about the fast travel... these are ~60 min episodes, and there's only what.. 8 total episodes this season? They have so much going on at once (so many story lines and info to fit in) that if they didn't fast travel, episodes would be massively longer, and there would be many more episodes in turn.

For Gendry's run... Obviously it wasn't just a couple minute run, or even just 30 minutes. He likely ran for hours to get back to the wall as fast as possibly (as evident by his collapse, similar to the Marathon story).

I don't know the proposed distance between dragonstone and where the crew is on that little island, but it's probably reasonable to assume it took a few DAYS to have Danny show up. Why would we need the writers to somehow convey this with a huge dialogic or otherwise? Any reasonable person who is a fan and knows the landscape realizes it's a pretty far distance, and the ravens probably max out around 20mph and the dragons maybe 40mph? Either way, they didn't just get there in a few hours, and I think that's pretty obvious.
 
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