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Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
13,719
1,851
126
So? What does that have to do with anything? It's your revaluation about the merged character we aren't supposed to know about that causes a problem. Duh.


o_O Are you seriously that dense?


There's no way you could possibly think I had an issue with consolidation. You said that a certain outcome would fit if a certain character we aren't supposed to know about were merged with this character, which strongly reinforces a certain possible outcome for a question we had about the character we know. SCREW. YOU.


...and then you totally derped and said it that a merge with a character I can name and DO know would explain something BIG. Being vague with the irrelevant source character's names is not the same as being vague with the strong possibilities you are suggesting for another character.


Has it not been made perfectly clear to you that those are exactly the details we do not want?! SCREW OFF.
You two should get a room.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,044
351
136
I don't think she's doing it intentionally, i think she's just misinterpreting her own visions. She seemed pretty down when she realized Stannis wasn't who she thought he was.
I think she is. I think she's intentionally interpreting her visions to whatever she thinks gives her the best outcome. Didn't she only start talking about the White Walkers after the Onion knight (who's name escapes me) pleaded Stannis to listen to the message the Night's Watch sent out? (That's a real question as I believe that's the case but can't remember for sure) She also takes credit for stuff that had nothing to do with her.. such as the leaches and people dying.

She gave birth to a smoke monster that was able to fly hundreds of miles and assassinate a specific target without being detected. That alone is enough to make up for any silliness regarding visions in the flames. Clearly there's something magical going on, even if she doesn't have much control over it.
I said she had power. I don't disregard that. I just think that she's not in any communication with the LoL (if the LoL even exists) and she's just manipulating people with religion. I'll probably be shown to be wrong as it's a fantasy show, but it seems to me that there are two major religions in this world and one is being used to manipulate the masses and imprison Cersei, why not the other as well?
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
12,719
2,174
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The writers cleared some stuff up...

-Sansa and Theon survive that suicidal looking jump.
Of all the convenient plot devices this show has done, that will be the hardest to buy. There is just no rationalization on how someone could jump off that wall without at the very least getting severely, life threatening, injured.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
29,316
405
126
She gave birth to a smoke monster that was able to fly hundreds of miles and assassinate a specific target without being detected. That alone is enough to make up for any silliness regarding visions in the flames. Clearly there's something magical going on, even if she doesn't have much control over it.
Wait... did the smoke monster really travel that far? I thought Davos ferried Melisandre to a cave that was close to Renly's camp.

EDIT:

Of all the convenient plot devices this show has done, that will be the hardest to buy. There is just no rationalization on how someone could jump off that wall without at the very least getting severely, life threatening, injured.
Especially if you consider that the snow had been melting. At least in my experience from living in snowy climates, when snow begins to melt, the piles that remain also tend to be really hard because of an icy layer forming.
 
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Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
Wait... did the smoke monster really travel that far? I thought Davos ferried Melisandre to a cave that was close to Renly's camp.

EDIT:



Especially if you consider that the snow had been melting. At least in my experience from living in snowy climates, when snow begins to melt, the piles that remain also tend to be really hard because of an icy layer forming.
They were just outside Renly's camp in boats. They met that morning on the beach.

I don't think she's misleading, she's misreading. She saw the Bolton banners fall and her on the walls on the city. She didn't see Stannis there. I bet all that still happens, just not when she thought it was going to.
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,243
110
116
They were just outside Renly's camp in boats. They met that morning on the beach.

I don't think she's misleading, she's misreading. She saw the Bolton banners fall and her on the walls on the city. She didn't see Stannis there. I bet all that still happens, just not when she thought it was going to.
I've been thinking the same thing for a long time. Seemed too convenient and unlike the show that it would all work out like that vision.

KT
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
314
126
Of all the convenient plot devices this show has done, that will be the hardest to buy. There is just no rationalization on how someone could jump off that wall without at the very least getting severely, life threatening, injured.
I thought they went to where they did because they knew it was a place to survive. Like as kids or something they would jump off into an abnormally large snowbank on that side. Seems Theon knew what he was doing.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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Wait... did the smoke monster really travel that far? I thought Davos ferried Melisandre to a cave that was close to Renly's camp.
Oh, well never mind then. A smoke monster that travels great distances to perform stealth assassinations is impressive. But if it's only got a 500 yard radius, well who needs it?
 

Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,665
21
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I keep hearing mentioning of resurrections. Though the only person really resurrected was the Mountain but he was never really dead. Either John Snow survives is is dead.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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I keep hearing mentioning of resurrections. Though the only person really resurrected was the Mountain but he was never really dead. Either John Snow survives is is dead.
Beric Dondarrion? He gets cloven in twain by The Hound, gets resurrected by Thoros of Myr and then explains that he's been resurrected in the same manner six times.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
Beric Dondarrion? He gets cloven in twain by The Hound, gets resurrected by Thoros of Myr and then explains that he's been resurrected in the same manner six times.
And Thoros if Myr was a red priest. Add that and the "kill the boy, become the man" line and it's a possible theory.
 

Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,207
65
91
Ivan Chisov was flying his Soviet bomber during World War II when several German planes swept in and turned his flying machine into a falling-while-on-fire machine. Chisov bailed out, but, not wanting to be a conspicuous target for a passing Nazi pilot while he slowly parachuted to earth, decided to wait to pull his chute until he was closer to the ground. What he didn't realize, though, was that bailing out in the extremely thin atmosphere at 22,000 feet would cause him to black out due to the lack of oxygen.

"I fall, I black out, I wake up in pain. Just like my Saturday nights."

Yes, it helped that he was flying over that ice-encrusted, snow-blanketed winter wonderland known as the Soviet Union, and he smacked down on an angled, snow-covered slope. But being unconscious actually helps people survive free falls, as the body is relaxed when it hits the ground (you can enjoy the same benefits by being "drunk, on drugs, suicidal or crazy, according to top experts in the field"). Nearby Soviet ground forces rushed to pick up what was left of him and were shocked to find Chisov injured but still alive. In three months he was back in the air.

Then, during the same war, a British pilot named Nicholas Alkemade went through an arguably more impressive version of the same thing. German fighters turned his bomber into a flaming inferno, and the fire destroyed his parachute. He realized that he faced either jumping into the black void or burning to death in his flying metal coffin. Picking door number 1, Alkemade did a backward somersault out of his cockpit and, of course, promptly passed out due to immediate lack of oxygen. He never got the chance to pull his ripcord.

There was no gentle slope waiting for him below, but there was a forest full of pine trees. Instead of getting impaled on a tree limb, he passed through layers of branches that slapped him all the way down, slowing his fall bit by bit. Once he made it all the way through the trees, he landed in a huge snowdrift that cushioned his fall further.

Alkemade awoke in the snow and discovered that his injuries were nothing more than a cut over his eye and a sprained ankle. The Germans quickly captured him, but became suspicious when they heard his story, thinking that they were really in custody of an Allied spy. After all, what kind of superman can fall from the sky and survive without even deploying his parachute?

Further Nazi investigation discovered his plane and confirmed his story. The Germans were so impressed that Alkemade had jumped without his chute that they gave him a certificate, and he became something of a celebrity while living out the war in a POW camp.


http://www.cracked.com/article_19996_5-insane-falls-you-wont-believe-people-survived_p2.html
 

mistercrabby

Senior member
Mar 9, 2013
963
51
91
Fucking... Jon... Snow. D::'( Duuuuuude. What a scene. Guy after guy going "for the Watch" and that sound of the blade going in. Fuckin hell.
So, if why not just keep the tunnel door shut and thereby screw over John Snow AND perhaps more important, keep the wildling hoard on the other side of the wall?? Letting them through and then killing John, the only person with a chance to keep the wildlings form massacring the watch and a good portion of the North.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
So, if why not just keep the tunnel door shut and thereby screw over John Snow AND perhaps more important, keep the wildling hoard on the other side of the wall?? Letting them through and then killing John, the only person with a chance to keep the wildlings form massacring the watch and a good portion of the North.
Yeah, this doesn't make sense...

If you wanted to kill Jon Snow because he's helping the wildlings you'd just not let them back in. Letting them in, then killing Jon means you still have to deal with the wildlings, who just followed Jon to the wall. While I'm sure they don't really care about him much, they at least broke bread with him. They might be a little pissed that the one guy saying it's safe to cross the wall is now dead.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,570
2
0
So, if why not just keep the tunnel door shut and thereby screw over John Snow AND perhaps more important, keep the wildling hoard on the other side of the wall?? Letting them through and then killing John, the only person with a chance to keep the wildlings form massacring the watch and a good portion of the North.
It's definitely irrational, I'm thinking it's a "death before dishonor" complex. I also imagine Sir Allister didn't choose to do it lightly. He probably didn't think Jon would be coming back, and when he did Allister was conflicted and didn't know how to react.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,762
342
126
It seemed ceremonial; as though this is the 'proper' means of disposing of a bad lord-commander. It seems clear that when it comes to the lord-commander you don't question him, you don't disobey him, but sometimes you do have to shank him: for the watch.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,440
8
81
So, if why not just keep the tunnel door shut and thereby screw over John Snow AND perhaps more important, keep the wildling hoard on the other side of the wall?? Letting them through and then killing John, the only person with a chance to keep the wildlings form massacring the watch and a good portion of the North.
Only a small mutineer party was shown. It was nowhere close to a majority of the watch. Had Alliser Thorne tried to deny Jon's order there's a good chance someone else who still supported Jon enough to not support mutiny would have overridden him. Then Thorne would have been killed.

There's also a risk that if Jon and the wildlings couldn't get in through the gates they could make it back to their ships and sail around the wall. With the help of the wildlings Jon would have been able to easily retake Castle Black from the other side.
 
Feb 6, 2007
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Speaking of irrational, how on Earth did Jon Snow and the Wildlings end up on the wrong side of the wall at Castle Black when they left Hardhome on boats? Did they sail down to Eastwatch, abandon their boats and walk along the wrong side of the wall for a few hundred miles, all while assuming the army of the undead is hot on their heels? Do you think anyone was like "ummm, can we just go another 10 miles south and put the wall between us and the White Walkers before we head for Castle Black?" And then Jon was like, "No, this makes for better drama. I want to share a long gaze with Ser Alliser." And then he purposely made them wait until Alliser was actually up on the wall to present themselves, because Jon Snow was kind of a dick?
 

Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,207
65
91
I can't believe that after hearing the tale of the White Walker raising all the non decapitated dead from either side and the imminent threat they pose that the entire Watch wasn't shaking in their boots and looking for any source for solutions. Yeah, great time to kill your leader over long standing grievances of banding together with the Wildings.

If Jon didn't communicate what he saw and how they barely escaped well shame on him.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
26,178
678
126
And Thoros of Myr was a red priest. Add that and the "kill the boy, become the man" line and it's a possible theory.
again, the red priestess has stated she doesn't have that power.

it would be a STUPID deus ex machina if all of a sudden she developed it just in time to save John snow's life.

then again why did she return to the Wall instead of, say, where THoros was?

oh god.. I now see this as possible:

she devoted herself in helping stannis in the name of the LoL. she received x magical powers.
now she devoted herself into helping John Snow. her old powers got replaced by new powers. (ie: resurrection)

powers given by LoL are based on the person you're helping in his name.
 
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Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,440
8
81
If Jon didn't communicate what he saw and how they barely escaped well shame on him.
As absurd as this is I could see it fitting his character.

When the leaders at Hardhome asked what happened to Mance Rayder Jon simply said he shot him with an arrow. He was nearly killed on the spot and needed Tormund of all people to explain the context. Jon should have known how stupid it was to not clearly explain things but he couldn't because of his pride, honor, and guilt. He may be similar struggling to say anything about what happened outside of the fact that he failed them by not saving as many as he could have.

He also could have been busy all day dealing with the wildlings and Sam's request and hadn't gotten around to calling the meeting yet. This is assuming that the mutiny happened the night after he returned.
 

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