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Game of Thrones - TV Series (NO BOOK SPOILERS)

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dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
13,909
2,222
126
again, the red priestess has stated she doesn't have that power.

it would be a STUPID deus ex machina if all of a sudden she developed it just in time to save John snow's life.

then again why did she return to the Wall instead of, say, where the other servant of the LoL was? (the one who did the resurrection in season 2.)

oh god.. I now see this as possible:

she devoted herself in helping stannis in the name of the LoL. she received x magical powers.
now she devoted herself into helping John Snow. her old powers got replaced by new powers. (ie: resurrection)

powers given by LoL are based on the person you're helping in his name.
The people don't have the powers, the LoL does. The people ask him to do something and he does it based on whether he feels like it. I don't see why it would be a deus ex machine if the LoL decides he wants Jon alive.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,122
439
136
Yeah, this doesn't make sense...

If you wanted to kill Jon Snow because he's helping the wildlings you'd just not let them back in. Letting them in, then killing Jon means you still have to deal with the wildlings, who just followed Jon to the wall. While I'm sure they don't really care about him much, they at least broke bread with him. They might be a little pissed that the one guy saying it's safe to cross the wall is now dead.
I thought he mentioned during his talk with Sam (might have been elsewhere) that his approval rating was at an all time low after getting a bunch of the Night's Watched killed by the White Walkers back at the Wildings settlement. I think that was the straw that convinced the rest of them to do the deed.

again, the red priestess has stated she doesn't have that power.

it would be a STUPID deus ex machina if all of a sudden she developed it just in time to save John snow's life.

then again why did she return to the Wall instead of, say, where THoros was?

oh god.. I now see this as possible:

she devoted herself in helping stannis in the name of the LoL. she received x magical powers.
now she devoted herself into helping John Snow. her old powers got replaced by new powers. (ie: resurrection)

powers given by LoL are based on the person you're helping in his name.
I don't think she's aware of the Red Priest, at the least I don't think she's aware of where he is. Also she'd have to travel south into Bolton's area to get there so that's a huge risk vs going back to Snow and conning him (and Onion knight guy) into protecting her.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
13,909
2,222
126
As absurd as this is I could see it fitting his character.

When the leaders at Hardhome asked what happened to Mance Rayder Jon simply said he shot him with an arrow. He was nearly killed on the spot and needed Tormund of all people to explain the context. Jon should have known how stupid it was to not clearly explain things but he couldn't because of his pride, honor, and guilt. He may be similar struggling to say anything about what happened outside of the fact that he failed them by not saving as many as he could have.

He also could have been busy all day dealing with the wildlings and Sam's request and hadn't gotten around to calling the meeting yet. This is assuming that the mutiny happened the night after he returned.
Couldn't Ed have told them all about the army of ice zombies?
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,455
33
91
As absurd as this is I could see it fitting his character.

When the leaders at Hardhome asked what happened to Mance Rayder Jon simply said he shot him with an arrow. He was nearly killed on the spot and needed Tormund of all people to explain the context. Jon should have known how stupid it was to not clearly explain things but he couldn't because of his pride, honor, and guilt. He may be similar struggling to say anything about what happened outside of the fact that he failed them by not saving as many as he could have.

He also could have been busy all day dealing with the wildlings and Sam's request and hadn't gotten around to calling the meeting yet. This is assuming that the mutiny happened the night after he returned.
Honestly I find that the majority of "problems" and "drama" in the shows is simply due to characters being fuck-all at communicating. For me it really detracts from the show.
 

fuzzybabybunny

Moderator<br>Digital & Video Cameras
Moderator
Jan 2, 2006
10,455
33
91
I don't think she's aware of the Red Priest, at the least I don't think she's aware of where he is. Also she'd have to travel south into Bolton's area to get there so that's a huge risk vs going back to Snow and conning him (and Onion knight guy) into protecting her.
She is. She met the Red Priest when she was searching for Gendry in the Brothers without Banners camp. She even knows that the Red Priest resurrects people a lot.
 

Remobz

Platinum Member
Jun 9, 2005
2,490
10
81
again, the red priestess has stated she doesn't have that power.

it would be a STUPID deus ex machina if all of a sudden she developed it just in time to save John snow's life.

then again why did she return to the Wall instead of, say, where THoros was?

oh god.. I now see this as possible:

she devoted herself in helping stannis in the name of the LoL. she received x magical powers.
now she devoted herself into helping John Snow. her old powers got replaced by new powers. (ie: resurrection)

powers given by LoL are based on the person you're helping in his name.

I find this theory interesting. I still miss Jon Snow and hope this theory is the correct one.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
13,405
3,108
136
The people don't have the powers, the LoL does. The people ask him to do something and he does it based on whether he feels like it. I don't see why it would be a deus ex machine if the LoL decides he wants Jon alive.
Anyway, after burning a princess alive she has probably leveled up and has access to higher level spells.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,122
439
136
She is. She met the Red Priest when she was searching for Gendry in the Brothers without Banners camp. She even knows that the Red Priest resurrects people a lot.
Ah.. I had forgotten about that. Am I correct in thinking it's still a long way between where Stannis' army was and the BwB's Camp is? If it's even still there? I personally would think they'd want to move after the Hound left, but I could be wrong.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,770
347
126
Ah.. I had forgotten about that. Am I correct in thinking it's still a long way between where Stannis' army was and the BwB's Camp is? If it's even still there? I personally would think they'd want to move after the Hound left, but I could be wrong.
Way easier to get that other lord-commander to resurrect Jon Snow.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
again, the red priestess has stated she doesn't have that power.

it would be a STUPID deus ex machina if all of a sudden she developed it just in time to save John snow's life.

then again why did she return to the Wall instead of, say, where THoros was?

oh god.. I now see this as possible:

she devoted herself in helping stannis in the name of the LoL. she received x magical powers.
now she devoted herself into helping John Snow. her old powers got replaced by new powers. (ie: resurrection)

powers given by LoL are based on the person you're helping in his name.
Didn't Thoros also say he wasn't reviving anyone, it was the Lord of Light? Then you go on and say it's based on the person you're reviving, so does it matter she hasn't done it before? Maybe she wasn't around anyone the LoL deemed worthy of reviving. I bet Thoros didn't think he could do it, until he did.

Or maybe he's just dead. If that's the case why did Melissandra go back to the wall at all? She should have headed south away from all this mess. It feels like there's a plot reason she's back there. Is she going to get his blood off the snow? Maybe.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,643
9
81
Ah.. I had forgotten about that. Am I correct in thinking it's still a long way between where Stannis' army was and the BwB's Camp is? If it's even still there? I personally would think they'd want to move after the Hound left, but I could be wrong.
It's quite a ways away, about half the continent down. If Thoros shows up out of the blue it'd be extremely odd.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
8
81
Isn't the wall supposed to be a month's travel north of Winterfel? Sorta makes her simple ride up the Castle Black a little implausible.
Yeah it's several hundred miles away.

It can be hard to really grasp the passage of time in the show and it's easy to at least view the different stories as happening in chronological order but that's not necessarily the case.

I'm not sure if there's anything that internally contradicts there being a month between when Stannis's army fell and when Melisandre arrived at Castle Black, as awkward as this seems. Jon would have himself been gone for months between when he set sail for Hardhome and returned with the wildlings, and this happened after Stannis left the wall. So there should at least be time for those things. The only thing is this would mean Davos had not gotten word about the defeat from the ravens, but that's not necessarily something that anyone would have found fit to inform Castle Black.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
8
81
It's quite a ways away, about half the continent down. If Thoros shows up out of the blue it'd be extremely odd.
It's not nearly that far away. It's more like a fifth of the length between the wall and the southern end of the continent.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
Yeah it's several hundred miles away.

It can be hard to really grasp the passage of time in the show and it's easy to at least view the different stories as happening in chronological order but that's not necessarily the case.

I'm not sure if there's anything that internally contradicts there being a month between when Stannis's army fell and when Melisandre arrived at Castle Black, as awkward as this seems. Jon would have himself been gone for months between when he set sail for Hardhome and returned with the wildlings, and this happened after Stannis left the wall. So there should at least be time for those things. The only thing is this would mean Davos had not gotten word about the defeat from the ravens, but that's not necessarily something that anyone would have found fit to inform Castle Black.
distances are wonky in GoT, presumably because George RR Martin just didn't really put much thought into it.

looking at a map, the road from King's Landing to Winterfell would take like months to travel by horse... in the show, it's depicted as like, maybe a week's travel.
 

Jeeebus

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2006
9,126
798
126
Didn't Thoros also say he wasn't reviving anyone, it was the Lord of Light? Then you go on and say it's based on the person you're reviving, so does it matter she hasn't done it before? Maybe she wasn't around anyone the LoL deemed worthy of reviving. I bet Thoros didn't think he could do it, until he did.
Melisandre meets Thoros

Yes you are correct. Thoros goes on about how he stopped believing and only uttered the words (which all priests presumably know) because Beric was his friend. The LoL then said fuck it, revived. Thoros did not present it as any sort of special knowledge or training, so she could easily do the same (assuming it is the will of the LoL).
 

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