Game design question

[Rakehellion]

In video games where you have health regeneration, it's always on, but after you use stamina, there's usually a brief cooldown period before it starts regenerating again. Why is this?

 

[cmdrdredd]

can you give an example? I'm not sure what you mean by stamina

 

[purbeast0]

i think he's talking about running like in cod.

there is always a "cooldown" period with health too, you have to be "safe" for a while before you start to regen. at least in pretty much every game i've played that has this mechanic, that is how it is.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Yeah ok then. Think about Halo, you have regenerating shields but you have to not get hit for a while for them to regen

 

[purbeast0]

Yeah ok then. Think about Halo, you have regenerating shields but you have to not get hit for a while for them to regen

same with cod, gears, uncharted, last of us, tomb raider, etc. no shields but you have to wait a bit before it regens.

actually in halo you didn't have regenerating health for some of them, just regenerating shields. i think halo 2 is the only one that had regenerating both. don't remember how 4 was in that regard.

 

[Rakehellion]

Demon's Souls and Monster Hunter had instantaneous health regeneration.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Demon's Souls and Monster Hunter had instantaneous health regeneration.

Then how do you ever die? You have to stand still and not get hit right? That's the same thing.

 

[Rakehellion]

What?

 

[exdeath]

In video games where you have health regeneration, it's always on, but after you use stamina, there's usually a brief cooldown period before it starts regenerating again. Why is this?

To simulate having to cease activity completely to catch your breath before getting ready to go again.

IRL you don't run till you're blue in the face, stop, then immediately recover and run again just because you stopped for a second. There is a recovery delay before stamina returns.

 

[Rakehellion]

To simulate having to cease activity completely to catch your breath before getting ready to go again.

IRL you don't run till you're blue in the face, stop, then immediately recover and run again just because you stopped for a second. There is a recovery delay before stamina returns.

In real life, you breathe all the time and your stamina is replenished constantly. This is a balance issue.

 

[smackababy]

In real life, you breathe all the time and your stamina is replenished constantly. This is a balance issue.

Have you ever done any real intense activity? You are not constantly replenishing your stamina. The bar is to simulate that muscles have a limit as to how much they can do, and until you have stopped using them (or reduced the stress a great deal), they will not recover.

If you do not believe me, go outside and sprint your absolute hardest. Then, once you reach the limit of your endurance, sprint your hardest again. You won't be able to run nearly as fast or as far. Now, allow yourself to recover and your heart rate to drop, then do it again. You will be closer to the original sprint.

 

[purbeast0]

In real life, you breathe all the time and your stamina is replenished constantly. This is a balance issue.

not sure if serious...

 

[smackababy]

not sure if serious...

Maybe he is Wolverine! Super healing would be a great thing to have at the gym. By the time you load more weight on the bar, you've fully recovered and are ready to break them muscles down again!

And he said Demon's Souls had instantly regenerating health...

 

[exdeath]

In real life, you breathe all the time and your stamina is replenished constantly. This is a balance issue.

Maybe you never heard of high intensity interval training in the anaerobic zone at 100% max heart rate and max O2 capacity.

Do 700-900 watts on a spin bike at max resistance for 30 seconds.

Oh, you can't do it forever and feel like you're gonna die?

Yeah that's how the stamina bar works. You can't run around at 100% max heart rate non stop carrying 80 lbs of gear all the time, you need to rest and recover in between intervals.

 

[Arkaign]

Maybe you never heard of high intensity interval training in the anaerobic zone at 100% max heart rate and max O2 capacity.

Do 700-900 watts on a spin bike at max resistance for 30 seconds.

Oh, you can't do it forever and feel like you're gonna die?

Yeah that's how the stamina bar works. You can't run around at 100% max heart rate non stop carrying 80 lbs of gear all the time, you need to rest and recover in between intervals.

Hahah, you've given me flashbacks of the Insanity training. That dude is ludicrously awesome. He's all talking and inspiring while doing all that crap, and the people around him are collapsing and looking like they're going to die.

 

[Rakehellion]

Have you ever done any real intense activity? You are not constantly replenishing your stamina. The bar is to simulate that muscles have a limit as to how much they can do, and until you have stopped using them (or reduced the stress a great deal), they will not recover.

Muscles take days to heal. And that's not the same as replenishing oxygen in the body. As far as catching your breath, that's constant. You can take a brisk walk for hours on end.

Maybe you never heard of high intensity interval training in the anaerobic zone at 100% max heart rate and max O2 capacity.

Do 700-900 watts on a spin bike at max resistance for 30 seconds.

Oh, you can't do it forever and feel like you're gonna die?

Yeah that's how the stamina bar works. You can't run around at 100% max heart rate non stop carrying 80 lbs of gear all the time, you need to rest and recover in between intervals.

Unless you stop breathing during this workout, it still isn't how video games emulate it.

 

[Sulaco]

So...play ArmA?

I mean, it's a game. There has to be a distinct and real "cut off point" where the 'simulation' aspect only goes so far. Otherwise, it just gets silly.
Stamina bars and health regeneration (Health regen especially) are patently silly by nature. I despise health regen.

Oh, I just got shot in the face 4 times. Let me duck behind a wall for 6 seconds to get back to 100%.

I mean, that's where gameplay is right now, and we're seriously dissecting how stamina is implemented? As long as I can get shot half a dozen times, but don't have to worry because there's a piece of cover to duck behind for 7 seconds while the game miraculously heals me, I can't get too uptight over stamina bars.

 

[BrightCandle]

Arma 3 even has a mod that introduces bleeding out, so after you get shot you will get worse over time. If you run you'll make it much worse. A medkit can be used to stem the bleeding but not recover all your health. My community has a medic who with a long period of healing (about 2 minutes) can fix a problem that stops you walking and bleeding so you appear as able as everyone else (not very realistic) but you never get your full health back. People can go unconscious, they can die instantly etc etc. All in all that is far more realistic but still gamey enough to make not getting shot worthwhile and at the same time getting shot is survivable.

The stamina system is based on the weight of the gear and how long you run for. Depending on the gun/ammo load etc you can jog for many minutes but sprinting is only really for about 100 metres before you have to drop to a jog. If you jog for too long you'll start to black out. Then when you stop it takes about 60-100 seconds to recover your stamina, moving during this process will slow the recovery down depending on what it is you are doing.

That is a realistic health and stamina system, this 7 second recovery ridiculousness for health and stamina is a strange game mechanic. We used to have health packs and since the xbo360/ps3 consoles we seem to be using recharging health instead. Neither is really that great as a mechanic but then I guess its more fun to be straight back into the action than to be permanently injured for the rest of the game. But a discussion of how realistic it is...that is kind of amusing.

 

[Rakehellion]

I mean, it's a game. There has to be a distinct and real "cut off point" where the 'simulation' aspect only goes so far. Otherwise, it just gets silly.
Stamina bars and health regeneration (Health regen especially) are patently silly by nature. I despise health regen.

Okay, but I'm asking WHY? This particular balance issue is adopted by many different games, so it must be an important one with a very specific purpose. Does anyone know why it makes the game more balanced for your stamina bar to stop regenerating for half a second after you use it whereas your health and mana regen constantly?

 

[Rakehellion]

As long as I can get shot half a dozen times, but don't have to worry because there's a piece of cover to duck behind for 7 seconds while the game miraculously heals me, I can't get too uptight over stamina bars.

There are plenty of games where you get shot once and die. Play those.

This isn't a discussion about realism, it's a discussion about playability, which is just the opposite.

 

[purbeast0]

This isn't a discussion about realism, it's a discussion about playability, which is just the opposite.

and it's been answered multiple times in this thread so i'm not sure what else there really is to discuss.

 

[smackababy]

and it's been answered multiple times in this thread so i'm not sure what else there really is to discuss.

I am convinced OP has not done any actual physical activity.

OP, you can't even jog forever. Using 'stamina' in real life functions pretty similar to how a bar in a game works. You expend energy while performing some action, and when you're heart rate drops back down you regain that energy back faster. Yes you gain a slight amount while breathing during the action, however, the net gain is still negative because you are expending a lot more than you're recovering.

 

[Rakehellion]

and it's been answered multiple times in this thread so i'm not sure what else there really is to discuss.

No, I just see a lot of people missing the point.

Yes you gain a slight amount while breathing during the action, however, the net gain is still negative because you are expending a lot more than you're recovering.

It isn't a matter of net gain or loss. In real life, you can walk for hours on end. That uses stamina. Furthermore, games aren't intended to be realistic any more than would make the play experience more enjoyable.

The stamina bar was introduced in PVP games where they wanted to restrict the number of power moves you could make in a certain span of time, whereas a game like DOOM doesn't have a stamina bar. The stamina delay is like a respawn time, acting as punishment for risky behavior.

I think I've pretty much answered my own question now.

 

[purbeast0]

No, I just see a lot of people missing the point.

no, you're the only one missing the point. in your OP you ask "why is this?" and it's been explained to you why it is that way numerous times in this thread.

 

[Rakehellion]

no, you're the only one missing the point. in your OP you ask "why is this?" and it's been explained to you why it is that way numerous times in this thread.

No, something completely different from what I asked was explained.