FX-9830P Throttling

[J4D]

Ok, so I've decided to make this account and make my first forum post ever because I couldn't find any other post about this.

Before I get into it, here are my specs :

Laptop: ASUS R510IU-LSFX
CPU: FX-9830P
GPU: RX 460
RAM: 8GB DDR4

So I know about the FX-8800P and others power throttling in games due to the 15W TDP limit, but I have an FX-9830P which has a 35W TDP, 3.0GHZ stock clock, and 3.7GHz boost clock. Ok, here's the problem. In games, the clock speed jumps between 2.19GHz and 2.6GHz and (rarely) sometimes hits 2.8GHz, but usually, it's down in the 2.1 - 2.3 GHz range in games. This is a problem because it causes major stuttering in my games. The RX 460 is capable of playing all of my daily games (Fortnite, World of Tanks, Killing Floor 2, Miscreated) but the CPU sits at 2.19 - 2.6Ghz in those games and causes stuttering and low frame rate, which is not what I expected. For example in the calm areas of Fortnite like the edges of the map, I get an easy 40-60 FPS with no dips, but god forbid I go into a town area or get into a fight, the smooth framerate goes away and gets replaced with a stuttering mess, which is worse than the old laptop that I "upgraded" from.

I recently upgraded from the MSI-GX60 that had an A10-5750M and a Radeon 7970M. According to cpu.userbenchmark, the FX-9830P was supposed to have given me a massive boost over the old A10, and the RX 460 is also slightly better than the 7970M:
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-FX-9830P-APU-2016-MBR-vs-AMD-A10-5750M-APU/m215072vsm3779

But instead, because of the throttling, the performance is almost like it. I've already checked thermals on the CPU and the max temperature in games is at 76C. I've tried undervolting using AmdMsrTweaker and K15TK but they didn't make a difference. AMD Overdrive is not supported, AMD PSCheck doesn't install, I've already tried using the updated drivers from AMD, and the stock drivers from the ASUS website, and I'm using the dedicated graphics in games and have the High Performance profile set in Windows Power Options. It looks like it's power throttling because in-game the CPU is at the reduced clocks, but as soon as you close the games or minimize them, the clocks jump right back up to normal speed, which also scratches out the possibility of thermal throttling. When loading pages on chrome the CPU speed dips down to 2.19GHz but as soon as the pages finish loading it shoots back up to around 3.5GHz. When playing less CPU heavy games my CPU uses Turbo Boost the entire time and never dips below 3GHz, but when playing CPU Intensive games like State of Decay, Halo Wars 2, or Dying Light, the CPU rarely gets to and above 3GHz and makes the games pretty much unplayable while my GPU chills at 40-60% usage, which sucks because wouldn't these games demand higher clocks to run smoothly? Instead, the opposite happens, and the speed plummets. I haven't tested using this laptop with Unity3D yet, and hope the same doesn't happen there

I don't understand why this would be happening as the TDP of this CPU is at 35W, which is the same as the 5750M, which I've managed the lock the speed of that processor to 3.2GHz. It's not at 15W, the same as the ULV Intel processors and the FX-9800P/8800P, so the fact that it's downclocking baffles me. Although I haven't looked at it for a long time, the downclocking seems to be connected to the integrated GPU, and when the speed of the iGPU gets high, the processor downclocks, but why would the iGPU be used if I'm using the dedicated card for games? Yet again I haven't monitored it for a long time so I don't know for sure if that's the cause.

Wondering if anyone can help me because this is VERY frustrating, feels like I bought a downgrade instead of an upgrade :'(

 

[VirtualLarry]

When loading pages on chrome the CPU speed dips down to 2.19GHz but as soon as the pages finish loading it shoots back up to around 3.5GHz.

It's because of CPU-GPU TDP sharing. You sure that you're running on the dGPU, and not the iGPU? Even so, the AMD drivers probably throttle down the CPU when the dGPU is under load as well.

Edit: Have you verified using a tool that your APU is in fact configured for a real 35W TDP? Just because the specs list that as the TDP, doesn't mean that it's configured that way.

 

[J4D]

It's because of CPU-GPU TDP sharing. You sure that you're running on the dGPU, and not the iGPU? Even so, the AMD drivers probably throttle down the CPU when the dGPU is under load as well.

Edit: Have you verified using a tool that your APU is in fact configured for a real 35W TDP? Just because the specs list that as the TDP, doesn't mean that it's configured that way.

I've looked in CPU-Z and it says that my TDP is 35W. And that's strange? So you're telling me that my CPU shares the TDP with the dedicates GPU? But then that wouldnt exactly make sense since when I stress the dedicated gpu with furmark my CPU sits at 3.5GHz the entire time. The throttling seems to only happen in CPU heavy games or when the CPU's iGPU is at a high clock speed, I'm wondering if reducing the clock speed of iGPU could help, but I haven't found any software to do so.

 

[J4D]

The specs list the TDP of the FX-9830P as being configurable from 25W-45W. Mine is set at 35W, which also seems to be what other laptops have their set at. But I've only seen one other thread with this problem. And that was on Tom's Hardware forums.

 

[amd6502]

I've looked in CPU-Z and it says that my TDP is 35W. And that's strange? So you're telling me that my CPU shares the TDP with the dedicates GPU? But then that wouldnt exactly make sense since when I stress the dedicated gpu with furmark my CPU sits at 3.5GHz the entire time. The throttling seems to only happen in CPU heavy games or when the CPU's iGPU is at a high clock speed, I'm wondering if reducing the clock speed of iGPU could help, but I haven't found any software to do so.

No, power from the discrete GPU should not throttle the apu.

I think Larry is saying that maybe the iGPU is inadvertently being used rather than the discrete card (rx-460). So, make sure that the RX 460 is actually being used by the game (rather than the internal R7 graphics). Maybe there's even a way to disable iGPU from bios setup.

Thermal throttling is a possibility though. Also, the top boost frequencies are probably for single core load, temps allowing. I'd expect it to sustain 3ghz though (except in hotter climate conditions, then thermal throttling might prevent it unless you're in air conditioned room), and guessing it will regularly hit 3.2-3.5 on partial load.

I would also check that the windows power profile is set to performance, or balanced (with the max frequencies unlimited at 100%, under the advanced settings cpu sub-menu).

 

[J4D]

Just ran, Furmark and CPU Burner at the same time, my CPU temp reached 86.6 degrees, which is the highest I've ever seen it, and it STILL didn't drop below 3GHz, so that throws thermal throttling out the window, so something else must be happening. https://ibb.co/dMY12J

EDIT: I was able to recreate the throttling by running furmark with the iGPU, now I just need to figure out what Is using it while gaming.

 

[Jackie60]

I assume in Windows you’ve selected maximum performance in the power settings and this throttling occurs when on mains plugged in power not the battery?

 

[J4D]

I assume in Windows you’ve selected maximum performance in the power settings and this throttling occurs when on mains plugged in power not the battery?

Yep already done all of that. I seem to have narrowed it down to the iGPU being used by the dwm process while gaming in windowed mode. It makes the iGPU consistently be at 25% usage while gaming, which seems to throttle back cpu performance.

 

[Zstream]

Turn off aero and all other useless desktop effects.

 

[ao_ika_red]

Excavator core is not supported on AOD.
76°C is also very high for APU.
Have you tried using some laptop cooler or something?
Bristol Ridge laptop is known for poor cooling performance because it shares its platform with Carrizo-L and Stoney Ridge APU which have lower TDP.

 

[dark zero]

Is the iGPU which makes Crossfire on the games even if you don't want to.

 

[LTC8K6]

Can't the IGP be disabled in BIOS?

 

[ao_ika_red]

Just ran, Furmark and CPU Burner at the same time, my CPU temp reached 86.6 degrees, which is the highest I've ever seen it, and it STILL didn't drop below 3GHz, so that throws thermal throttling out the window, so something else must be happening. https://ibb.co/dMY12J

EDIT: I was able to recreate the throttling by running furmark with the iGPU, now I just need to figure out what Is using it while gaming.

After reading this, I also want to consider about memory bandwidth bottleneck because I suffered this once on my Athlon while running PrimeGrid's 321LLR app which really hard on memory. I had to settle on 3 GHz even though its temp was just below 50°C.

 

[J4D]

After closing all other windows that might use the iGPU like task manager and chrome while gaming and running games in full-screen mode to further reduce the iGPU usage from DWM, I've gotten the iGPU usage down to 5-8% while gaming. The CPU in games now is usually at either 3.495 GHz or 2.995 GHz with some drops to 2.195 GHz for a second or two. The CPU speed never drops below 3GHz for an extended period of time in all of my games except for Fortnite, which likes to jump between 2.19GHz and 3.495GHz very rapidly. I've also never seen the CPU usage at 100% consistently in any of the games that I've played, although I am yet to test my most CPU intensive games in "Miscreated", "Dying Light", and "Battlefield 1". In the games where the CPU doesn't drop below 3GHz the GPU (RX 460) is at 100% and reaches its thermal limit at 75C so it throttles by reducing its core clock, usually by about 120MHz, so I've tried undervolting it and am going to apply aftermarket thermal paste soon to help with temps. And no, I can't disable the iGPU in bios @LTC8K6, there's actually no options for anything in there besides secure boot, boot order, and bios flashing. I would love to use my dedicated GPU for everything but I don't think that's possible.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

I think there's some old mis-conceptions in this thread. Most likely, you're not going to be able to disable the iGPU in the BIOS. Mobile GPUs have been almost entirely Mux-less designs for nearly 7-8 years. That means the system is engineered so that the iGPU is the display source all the time, and only switches between whether or not the iGPU is doing the rendering. You're not going to be able to disable that in the BIOS.

To the OP's point, notebookcheck already acknowledged that the system appears to throttle itself in their review, so this may not be able to be fixed. That stated, if you are running the latest BIOS on the laptop, several people have reported that you can run the latest and greatest AMD Drivers on the system, so I'd recommend getting the latest Adrenaline drivers in place and see if the performance improves.

 

[LTC8K6]

I have little experience with laptops and was unaware that the IGP couldn't be disabled, so I learned something.

 

[J4D]

I think there's some old mis-conceptions in this thread. Most likely, you're not going to be able to disable the iGPU in the BIOS. Mobile GPUs have been almost entirely Mux-less designs for nearly 7-8 years. That means the system is engineered so that the iGPU is the display source all the time, and only switches between whether or not the iGPU is doing the rendering. You're not going to be able to disable that in the BIOS.

To the OP's point, notebookcheck already acknowledged that the system appears to throttle itself in their review, so this may not be able to be fixed. That stated, if you are running the latest BIOS on the laptop, several people have reported that you can run the latest and greatest AMD Drivers on the system, so I'd recommend getting the latest Adrenaline drivers in place and see if the performance improves.

I do have the latest drivers. Also, which review said that the CPU throttles? Before purchasing this laptop I looked online at notebookcheck and at cpu.userbenchmark for any signs of throttling but I didnt find any.

EDIT : Never mind I found it.

 

[J4D]

Just when I thought I figured something out, I find out that I was wrong. Downloaded and installed Battlefield 4, played a few matches, noticed that my CPU was at 2.195GHZ the entire time and wouldn't move, even though the usage was at around 72% in task manager with some spikes. I went through every single setting and the experience felt almost the same for each one because of the intense bottlenecking from the throttling. Was getting around 25-30fps on Ultra, with such inconsistent frame times and LOTS of stuttering. I dont know what to do anymore, this is very frustrating since this is a good cpu that's being throttled for reasons that I dont know or understand.

 

[NostaSeronx]

What is your OS Build?

June 12, 2018—KB4284835 <-- This killed performance for the FX-9800P in the laptop I use.

---
Bristol Ridge and Stoney Ridge are both on an Automotive process. So, the temperatures aren't bad, the PMU still uses Carrizo's safeguards. Even though the process can support up to 125 degrees Celsius.

 

[J4D]

What is your OS Build?

June 12, 2018—KB4284835 <-- This killed performance for the FX-9800P in the laptop I use.

---
Bristol Ridge and Stoney Ridge are both on an Automotive process. So, the temperatures aren't bad, the PMU still uses Carrizo's safeguards. Even though the process can support up to 125 degrees Celsius.

I'm on build 17134.112, Is there anything that I can do at all?

 

[NostaSeronx]

I'm on build 17134.112, Is there anything that I can do at all?

Do the this, before you do the below...
https://www.asus.com/us/supportonly/R510IU/HelpDesk_BIOS/
Make sure you are on that BIOS version.

To see if you are on that version: Win+R -> msinfo32 -> under processor should be BIOS number and date.

---
The below #1:
Do this: Uninstall - KB4284835
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...t-a-windows-update-from-reinstalling-in-windo
Hide KB4284835, so Windows Update doesn't update.

If that doesn't improve anything then just unhide it and reinstall that update.
---
The below #2:
The other way is selecting it based on power source/high performance:
https://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/DH-017.aspx
---
Other case is that it is throttling from single channel?

 

[The Stilt]

How are the clocks in pure CPU workloads, i.e. what's your CB15 nT score for example?

 

[J4D]

In the CPU test in Cinebench 15, the CPU clock stays at 3.48 GHz the entire time and never drops.

CPU Score is 272 which is the same as an AMD A10-6800K, which performs smoothly in Battlefield 1 and 4 without any stuttering at all.

In the Open GL test, the CPU was at 2.91 GHz or higher most of the time with a few drops to 2.40Ghz, but the CPU usage didnt exceed 50% and the GPU usage didnt exceed 45% usage.

OpenGL score is 34.60 FPS, which is lower than a GT 650M? That's weird. Since in the games I've tested, my GPU performance is below the desktop variant of the RX 460 since I have a mobile version.

 

[dark zero]

And how about to use an external screen in order to force to use the DGPU?

 

[J4D]

Didn't work, iGPU is still being utilized, because the dedicated graphics doesn't work on its own, it's linked to the iGPU. Data has to pass through the iGPU to get to the DGPU.