FVCKING Hate the Homeowners Association

[bsobel]

I wonder why the HOA didn't appeal? The judge went over the line a little there, you can't arbitrarily void terms in signed contracts. CC&Rs *have* gone to court before, and the law has always upheld them. It's a contract.

Actually thats not true, the terms can not be in violation of state or federal laws. As an example, here in California there are still alot of local 'convenants' that were written back in the 30-40's which disallow a home to be sold to a non-white person. Clearly that is illegal (sadly, it wasn't then), that portion of the contracts, while still included many of these can't or won't be ammeded (don't know why on the won't) and still have to be accepted by the new buyers. In these cases there is additional paperwork which basically says 'this part of the covenants' are not enforcable.

Another example is satellite dishses. Many HOA's banned them, congress passed a law (think it was the satellite viewers act) which specifically states it surplants any and all local restrictions and requirements (e.g. doesn't matter what your HOA says, congress wins).

As for this case, he paraphrased what must have been a very long ordeal, I'm sure there is more to the story than we've heard (not suggesting it's not true, just we don't know the actual details of the ruling). Of course, the giving consent and then removing it was a big big no-no, I'd guess the case hinged on that.

Bill

 

[Anubis]

MANUFACTURED HOME!?!?

OMFG, PLEASE tell me nobody here lives in a manufactured home!

So utterly bottom-of-the-low-class! You have *no* idea what those attrocities due to surrounding property value. How many people here enjoy losing 10s of thousands of dollars a year? Gods, they should be banned EVERYWHERE.

you do realize that manufactured home does not mean a trailer or double wide

you can get a VERY NICE 2-3 story house that is a prefab.. ann they do is assemble the walls and roof onsite, then do the interior and stuff, its actualy a really inexpensive way to get a nice house

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: dderidex

Originally posted by: kranky
My parents were moving from PA to NC and were building a home there. The HOA had to approve all the plans, and they did approve them. After my parents sunk most of their life savings into buying the home (it was a manufactured home), the HOA decided they don't allow manufactured homes and revoked the approval. So at this point, they owned a lot and a house, but they couldn't put the house up.

MANUFACTURED HOME!?!?

OMFG, PLEASE tell me nobody here lives in a manufactured home!

So utterly bottom-of-the-low-class! You have *no* idea what those attrocities due to surrounding property value. How many people here enjoy losing 10s of thousands of dollars a year? Gods, they should be banned EVERYWHERE.

Originally posted by: kranky
After two more court cases, a judge ruled the HOA was way out of line and he voided all the covenants (HOA rules).

Great. They got their house built, but it only cost them most of their life savings. And many of their neighbors won't speak to them because somehow it's my parents' fault that all the covenants were ruled unenforceable.

I wonder why the HOA didn't appeal? The judge went over the line a little there, you can't arbitrarily void terms in signed contracts.

CC&Rs *have* gone to court before, and the law has always upheld them. It's a contract. You sign it, not under coercion, it's binding. This particular judge must have had a problem with HOAs before in the past, but HE exceeded his authority, so an appeal would have overturned his decision.

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
A home is not an investment, it's a HOME. It's more sacred that any holy text you can produce. It's private, it's personal, it belongs 100% to the person that owns it. It's theirs. Your land is yours, it's like your own little nation. You are lord of your manor. King of your castle. You are absolute within your borders.

While I know that's not the 'legal' definition, or even the popular one, it's how I view it and how I will live it. Don't like it, put on some gloves and try to force me to change...I defend my beliefs to the bitter end.

LOL. I'm sorry, that IS funny.

'Your own little nation'? And what do you get with that? 'King of your castle'!? How tacky! As if you were somehow aloof from society and the world around you when at home! I bet you even run around the house naked, too, don't you! How crass!

Originally posted by: dman
And I have the same opinions as the OP of this thread... if you want to keep a crappy lawn and cars on blocks and to paint your house florescent colors, please leave. I don't hate you, or your way of living, I only care about it's impact to my property value... and that's why I live in a place where there are rules about that sort of thing. Clearly some of you have made wiser investment choices than I... like that '32 Chevy that needs a little body work you have half covered up over there or that gallon bucket of paint you got, who cares what color it is, was only $5! 😉

I kid, but, for some of you who have those folks as neighbors, not so funny.

See, that's what I meant by my 'hicks' comment.

I seriously think a lot of the posters in this thread I really WOULDN'T want living in my neighborhood. Dunno bout the rest of you, but property IS an investment to me. I don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars to just throw around without care. I put that much money into something, it had BETTER go up in value, NOT down.

Wow - ever hear of the term "elitest prick"? I think it aptly describes you 😉

Agreed.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I love my homeowners assoc. When the moron down the street parks his busted up POS 20 year old Mercedes on the corner for 10 days I can call and complain to someone. :thumbsup:

 

[ShotgunSteven]

There is a "planned neighborhood" (I believe that is the proper term) down in Washington state that is across Puget Sound from Seattle. Every house was built from a limited selection of blueprints, so there is some uniformity to the home designs. There is a golf course that runs through the place that was also put in by the developers. It's the type of place where you have to sign your life away to move in.

One small thing. My folks own a little five acre plot smack dab in the center of the whole thing. It also happens to be on the top of the highest point in the whole area. So among all these uniform houses with their uniform colors, immaculate lawns, and two-income families with their 1.5 kids, there is a five acre plot of trees, brush, and whatever other wild stuff will grow there. Washington state law says they have to provide access for them, as well. 😀

If that weren't bad enough, a timber company offered my folks some money for the chance to clear-cut the place. If the HOA folks were ticked off by the wilderness before, you can imagine how they were pulling their hair out when the logging vehicles came. 😀

They still own it, and the developers still keep sending lowball offers. I imagine the place is looking rather hideous right now in it's half-grown state. I imagine the busybody HOA types like the OP mentioned probably come close to having a coronary every time they are in the area. 😉

 

[MithShrike]

My friend is president of her local HOA and she just doesn't give a sh!t. Unfortunately she lives in a different community than I do and our HOA is a bunch of nazis.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: dderidex
Random Bitching And Whining

Wow - ever hear of the term "elitest prick"? I think it aptly describes you 😉

Agreed.

Thirded.

On a totally unrelated note, say, rbloedow, I have four extra bags of industrial-strength road salt. How about I carry them over?

Oops, they had holes in them. Double oops, I accidentally crossed over dderidex's lawn ... ten or twelve times ... jumping up and down vigorously ...

Hey, at least your grass will be nice and short, right?

- M4H

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Quite simply the argument is bunk. Nice homes, HOA or not , stay nice. Cheap homes, which lend themsevles to rentals and/or lower income, become crappy over time HOA or not.

Well, it seem to be portrayed as if you don't have an HOA this is what you'll get. Certainly not true, but there are plenty of cases where people have wound up with bad neighbors who affected their home values. The best example in the OC was from HB a few years ago, still a funny
story. See truth is, some people are just nuts.

Bill

p.s. PrinceofWands, serious question(s). How old are you and do you own a home?

I was wondering this about PrinceofWands as well. I kid around when speaking of shotgunning someone for making me mad, or for pillaging small villages, but somehow I've never got the idea he's kidding. Please, tell me you are joking around, POW -- please.

 

[dderidex]

Originally posted by: maziwanka
dderidex, i hope you caught the part where kranky said the HOA originally approved his family's plan of erecting a manufactured home in the neighborhood. it was absolutely horrendous that the HOA tried to reverse their decision AFTER the house had been purchased assuming the family had the HOA's approval.

i'm guessing you did catch that but your remarks imply that you're a fvcking prick. the family was unfairly treated and the HOA should be held accountable for his family's legal fees.

I'd put good money the HOA never actually approved a 'manufactured home' if it was against their CC&Rs (which it apparently was). I can see one of two things having happened:

1) The homeowners were not clear on what they were putting in - specifically, that it was a manufactured home. Maybe they just provided square foot information, number of beds, baths, general layout, etc without SAYING that it was 'manufactured', which would have been against the CC&Rs. IOW, they knew the CC&Rs prohibited manufactured homes, but went ahead anyway without mentioning that, essentially deceiving the HOA (intentionally or not)

2) The homeowners got into contact with someone they thought was able to speak for the HOA (maybe just the realtor?) and who said something to the effect of "I'm sure where wouldn't be a problem with that" without ACTUALLY applying to the HOA to put the manufactured home in.

Of course, since most people here seem to be happy with their understanding that all HOAs are evil and no good will ever come of any of them, nobody seems to have tried to have any other understanding of the problem than what the original poster put down.

I mean, seriously, does anybody here REALLY think the HOA officially approved something against its own CC&Rs? Why would they do that? It doesn't make sense! More likely, the homeowners goofed and didn't want to own up responsibility to it and tried to put the blame on the HOA.

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I love my homeowners assoc. When the moron down the street parks his busted up POS 20 year old Mercedes on the corner for 10 days I can call and complain to someone. :thumbsup:

Agreed.

Houses are close together here, if you can't FORCE people to keep their property value up - too many people WON'T. And that effects me.

Isn't that the most basic description of rights? You have freedoms until they infringe on someone else's?

I don't understand how so many people here have no problem with burning trash in their yards, piling up cards in their yards, letting their grass grow, etc, then claim it's "within their rights".

Well, why don't you go run and yell "Fire" in a crowded theater next! After all, YOUR rights apparently trump everyone else's and they need to learn to just deal with your personal lower standards, right?

 

[bsobel]

I mean, seriously, does anybody here REALLY think the HOA officially approved something against its own CC&Rs? Why would they do that? It doesn't make sense! More likely, the homeowners goofed and didn't want to own up responsibility to it and tried to put the blame on the HOA.

Well, I think your speculating as much as everyone else. The fact that a court agreed (and the HOA didn't appear to appeal) seems to suggest it wasn't as simple as you've said.

 

[Anonemous]

Originally posted by: lastrhino
I would think the last thing you want to do is to make enimies of your association or your neighbors. Keep it cool, and don't give them an excuse to make living in your new home/neighborhood unplesant in the long run.

makes it sound like the mafia or something... hoa's are scary... paying them for your protection... 🙂

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: bsobel

Quite simply the argument is bunk. Nice homes, HOA or not , stay nice. Cheap homes, which lend themsevles to rentals and/or lower income, become crappy over time HOA or not.

Well, it seem to be portrayed as if you don't have an HOA this is what you'll get. Certainly not true, but there are plenty of cases where people have wound up with bad neighbors who affected their home values. The best example in the OC was from HB a few years ago, still a funny
story. See truth is, some people are just nuts.

Bill

p.s. PrinceofWands, serious question(s). How old are you and do you own a home?

I was wondering this about PrinceofWands as well. I kid around when speaking of shotgunning someone for making me mad, or for pillaging small villages, but somehow I've never got the idea he's kidding. Please, tell me you are joking around, POW -- please.

I'm 33. Been in the military, have a child, am back in school for a masters in teaching, and fortunately I never had to pay for a home because I inherited the family home (though I've had various rental houses and apartments over the years). I bring that all up because the standard arguments I hear are: get a job, grow older, join the military, have a kid, get your own place or get an education. I've done all that thanks.

I am planning expansions to it however, by buying the little 30k place next door, razing it and building a 2 car garage and shop with additional rooms overhead, allowing me to convert the existing one car attached garage to an extended living room area. Been drawing out plans for it for about 10 years now. Total cost of the project will be about 70k (since I'll do most of the work myself) and result in a 3200sq' residence on just under an acre, with the appraised value rising from 102k to 155k...in other words, it's a HORRIBLE investment...but it's not supposed to be an investment, it's supposed to be a HOME. In fact, if the Lowes project goes in across the highway my property value will plummet 20%. In truth, I'd LOVE that because my taxes would be reduced (not to mention the kickback Lowes would have to pay us), and I don't EVER plan on selling my house. Why would I care at all how much my property was worth, other than to figure my taxes??? A home is to live in, to leave to your children...it's a place of peace and joy and serenity away from towns and strangers. That's all it is and all it should EVER be.

I'm a very simple person, with VERY deeply held beliefs and ideals. I am NOT socially adjusted in any modern sense. I'd fit much better a thousand years ago than I do today. But now is when I am, so we're all just going to have to learn to live with that. I honestly would defend my right to run my own home to the death. If that offends you, tough. I honestly don't care. I would NEVER harm someone that wasn't trampling my rights or threatening me (or someone else in my care), I would NEVER profit from anothers misfortunes, nor attempt to tell them how to live, nor wish to rule over them in any way. I just want to be left alone to live simply and justly. What it really comes down to is, "Run your own life and stay out of mine, and we'll get along just fine."

 

[bsobel]

I'm a very simple person, with VERY deeply held beliefs and ideals. I am NOT socially adjusted in any modern sense. I'd fit much better a thousand years ago than I do today. But now is when I am, so we're all just going to have to learn to live with that. I honestly would defend my right to run my own home to the death. If that offends you, tough. I honestly don't care. I would NEVER harm someone that wasn't trampling my rights or threatening me (or someone else in my care), I would NEVER profit from anothers misfortunes, nor attempt to tell them how to live, nor wish to rule over them in any way. I just want to be left alone to live simply and justly. What it really comes down to is, "Run your own life and stay out of mine, and we'll get along just fine."

Nothing in that offends me, it's all perfectly reasonable. I was just curious after your post:

Homeowners associations should be 100% outlawed. I see no benefit of them, they're fascist organizations. If you're STUPID enough to move in somewhere that allows them, well, not much for it I guess but to bend over. In truth, I wouldn't really listen to them anyway, and would be very likely willing to break the law in EXTREME ways in order to devastate a$$holes that belong to them and try to make life difficult. I don't think I'd have any moral dilemnas with burning down the houses of every association member while they were out. Then I'd come over while they were balling on the streets and tell them, "Hey I'm sorry, but your home is no longer asthetically pleasing, I'll have to ask you to move." Then I'd walk away laughing hysterically about his pain. I'm normally a pretty compassionate guy, but theese organizations make me want to puke. [q/]

I guess my only point is those people who move into area with HOA's are doing so voluntarily, so to me they have as much right to make that decision as you do to not live in an area with one.

I take your comments much more to heart knowing you own a home and understand the issue (good and bad)

Bill

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: bsobel

I'm a very simple person, with VERY deeply held beliefs and ideals. I am NOT socially adjusted in any modern sense. I'd fit much better a thousand years ago than I do today. But now is when I am, so we're all just going to have to learn to live with that. I honestly would defend my right to run my own home to the death. If that offends you, tough. I honestly don't care. I would NEVER harm someone that wasn't trampling my rights or threatening me (or someone else in my care), I would NEVER profit from anothers misfortunes, nor attempt to tell them how to live, nor wish to rule over them in any way. I just want to be left alone to live simply and justly. What it really comes down to is, "Run your own life and stay out of mine, and we'll get along just fine."

Nothing in that offends me, it's all perfectly reasonable. I was just curious after your post:

Homeowners associations should be 100% outlawed. I see no benefit of them, they're fascist organizations. If you're STUPID enough to move in somewhere that allows them, well, not much for it I guess but to bend over. In truth, I wouldn't really listen to them anyway, and would be very likely willing to break the law in EXTREME ways in order to devastate a$$holes that belong to them and try to make life difficult. I don't think I'd have any moral dilemnas with burning down the houses of every association member while they were out. Then I'd come over while they were balling on the streets and tell them, "Hey I'm sorry, but your home is no longer asthetically pleasing, I'll have to ask you to move." Then I'd walk away laughing hysterically about his pain. I'm normally a pretty compassionate guy, but theese organizations make me want to puke. [q/]

I guess my only point is those people who move into area with HOA's are doing so voluntarily, so to me they have as much right to make that decision as you do to not live in an area with one.

I take your comments much more to heart knowing you own a home and understand the issue (good and bad)

Bill

In reality of course, I wouldn't be in that situation, so there'd never be need for such drastic action. But HOA's are seriously a pet peeve of mine that make me SOOOOOO INSANELY ANGRY it's hard to contain myself. I only get that way about subjects that deal with infringement of personal rights and freedoms really, as demonstrated in my gun rights threads, etc.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Stupid forum issues double post. 8-(

 

[bsobel]

HOA's are seriously a pet peeve of mine that make me SOOOOOO INSANELY ANGRY it's hard to contain myself. I only get that way about subjects that deal with infringement of personal rights and freedoms really, as demonstrated in my gun rights threads, etc.

Curious, do you agree that people should have the right to *volunatarily* join such a HOA? I see it much different from personal rights (e.g. gun ownership) as there we are (generally) talking about government restricting your legal rights, not someone agreeing to restrictions as part of a contract.

 

[cavemanmoron]

? whats a townhouse?

like a condo?

Whats a homeowner ass ocitation?>

ohhh like You can't paint your house anything but white,or beige?

 

[techfuzz]

Photocopy the relevant page of the HOA rules, hi-lite the afforementioned rule, and tape it to the guys door who's giving you crap.

I got a letter once from an apartment complex I lived in about a newly installed satellite dish that was 100% freestanding, not attached to the building, and on my personal deck. They were demanding I either remove it or pay them a $300 deposit. Being the good law-abiding citizen I was, I found the relevant FCC regulations outlining my rights as a satellite owner, printed out a copy, hi-lited my rights within the laws that my complex was attempting to infring upon, and dropped them off with my monthly rent and a short letter saying no I will not do either. I never heard a single peep from them again about it.

techfuzz

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Quite simply the argument is bunk. Nice homes, HOA or not , stay nice. Cheap homes, which lend themsevles to rentals and/or lower income, become crappy over time HOA or not.

Well, it seem to be portrayed as if you don't have an HOA this is what you'll get. Certainly not true, but there are plenty of cases where people have wound up with bad neighbors who affected their home values. The best example in the OC was from HB a few years ago, still a funny
story. See truth is, some people are just nuts.

Bill

p.s. PrinceofWands, serious question(s). How old are you and do you own a home?

Yeah, that's typical of your average homeowner... :roll:

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
In reality of course, I wouldn't be in that situation, so there'd never be need for such drastic action. But HOA's are seriously a pet peeve of mine that make me SOOOOOO INSANELY ANGRY it's hard to contain myself. I only get that way about subjects that deal with infringement of personal rights and freedoms really, as demonstrated in my gun rights threads, etc.

Are you insane? What on earth do HOAs have to do with gun rights? Or personal rights? Do you have a right to junk up your yard? Or let weeds infest your yard and only mow it once a year? It's not like HOAs are breaking down your door to find out if you've painted your interior walls black or if you have guns or porn in there. They might take offence to you painting your house green or digging a moat around your house though. Big freaking deal. Nobody is forcing you to buy a home in an HOA area.

 

[kranky]

Originally posted by: dderidex

Originally posted by: maziwanka
dderidex, i hope you caught the part where kranky said the HOA originally approved his family's plan of erecting a manufactured home in the neighborhood. it was absolutely horrendous that the HOA tried to reverse their decision AFTER the house had been purchased assuming the family had the HOA's approval.

i'm guessing you did catch that but your remarks imply that you're a fvcking prick. the family was unfairly treated and the HOA should be held accountable for his family's legal fees.

I'd put good money the HOA never actually approved a 'manufactured home' if it was against their CC&Rs (which it apparently was). I can see one of two things having happened:

1) The homeowners were not clear on what they were putting in - specifically, that it was a manufactured home. Maybe they just provided square foot information, number of beds, baths, general layout, etc without SAYING that it was 'manufactured', which would have been against the CC&Rs. IOW, they knew the CC&Rs prohibited manufactured homes, but went ahead anyway without mentioning that, essentially deceiving the HOA (intentionally or not)

2) The homeowners got into contact with someone they thought was able to speak for the HOA (maybe just the realtor?) and who said something to the effect of "I'm sure where wouldn't be a problem with that" without ACTUALLY applying to the HOA to put the manufactured home in.

Of course, since most people here seem to be happy with their understanding that all HOAs are evil and no good will ever come of any of them, nobody seems to have tried to have any other understanding of the problem than what the original poster put down.

I mean, seriously, does anybody here REALLY think the HOA officially approved something against its own CC&Rs? Why would they do that? It doesn't make sense! More likely, the homeowners goofed and didn't want to own up responsibility to it and tried to put the blame on the HOA.

Here's some more information to fill in the blanks.

Neither my parents nor I ever had any dealings with an HOA before. They had no preconceived notions about good, bad, whatever. Their realtor explained that the HOA would have to approve the plans. My parents found a home they liked and submitted the plans. The HOA approved them. Nothing in the covenants said anything about manufactured homes. My parents would be the last people on earth to deceive anyone, or not own up to their mistakes. The HOA said a couple changes would be necessary, my parents went back to the builder, and submitted revised plans.

If the HOA had asked if it was a manufactured home, my parents would certainly have told them. No one asked. They found out when the president of the HOA saw the builder's truck and realized it was a firm that dealt with manufactured homes. At that point they hurriedly rejected the already-approved plans.

The reason they lost the suit is that they were refusing to approve the plans when nothing in the covenants prohibited anything related to the home plans. It had the height, size, windows, blah, blah, blah, all according to the rules. And when the judge read the covenants, he found other rules that were in violation of some laws, and he voided the covenants. I'm sure the HOA's handling of the situation was a factor, as the judge seemed rather stunned at their behavior throughout the entire process.

Feel free to defend HOAs if you'd like, but you can't defend this situation.

 

[MichaelD]

This thread is right on track for the Top Ten Best Intelligent Argument Threads Ever award.

:thumbsup: Many good points...of course my side is more correct than the other side. 😉

I agree with this argument: Typically, in a neighborhood of $300K homes you won't have chickens in the front yard and/or cars on cinderblocks."

Agreed.

However, if I pay that much scratch for a home and I want to park my truck in the driveway (non-leaking, completely mobile truck!) then it's my business!!!

Some rules are for the best (I.E. you may not park more than 3 vehicles in the street immediately in front of your house) some are just plain idiotic.

 

[OrganizedChaos]

Originally posted by: silverpig
Here's what you do:

1. Get a bag of ammonium nitrate. Just before a forecasted rainstorm, go throw a bunch all over his lawn. He'll be mowing it every day for a week in order to keep it short.

ROFL!!!!!! i can see it now!

you: yeah, do you have any of those 40lb bags of ammonium nitrate? i need alot of it.
guy at the store: what do you need it for?
you😀on't worry about it
guy: sir, i'm really curious as to what your gunna do with 100lbs of AN
you: if you really wanna know; i got this dickhead neighbor and i'm gunna get some revenge on him.
guy: ok, wait right here i'll get it for you



911: yeah i got a guy here that...
2 hours later

news anchor: local man arrested for plotting to blow up neighbors with homemade explosives.

 

[Reel]

Homeowners Associations, in theory, are a great idea. Like so many other great ideas, however, they are very susceptible to human corruption and stupidity. People can argue that an association is great and useful and I agree that they have their uses. Unfortunately, it is likely if not inevitable that they may eventually become a tool for people to exercise their personal views. If the decisions truly are for the greater good, who is to decide that? Is it right for it to be the pretentious prick that thinks he is a big shot because he shows up to every meeting and drives expensive cars and speaks the loudest? Or is that unfair toward the person who pays their dues quietly every month and just accepts the rules handed down by the pretentious pricks hoping that they keep their best interests in mind?

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: MichaelD
This thread is right on track for the Top Ten Best Intelligent Argument Threads Ever award.

:thumbsup: Many good points...of course my side is more correct than the other side. 😉

I agree with this argument: Typically, in a neighborhood of $300K homes you won't have chickens in the front yard and/or cars on cinderblocks."

Agreed.

However, if I pay that much scratch for a home and I want to park my truck in the driveway (non-leaking, completely mobile truck!) then it's my business!!!

Some rules are for the best (I.E. you may not park more than 3 vehicles in the street immediately in front of your house) some are just plain idiotic.

:thumbsup: I have seen firsthand the effects of a HOA shunned and the effects it has on property values.