Budmantom
Lifer
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: dderidex
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
well here's the issue with that...let's say that 51% of the people want to be in a HOA. What does that do to the 49%? Do we have to form seperate states? Different cities? HOA's restrict our given rights of free exercise reducing the available space for the rest of us. Without an HOA you can still have neighborhood meetings and take legal action and so on, but nobodies rights are inherently infringed. See what I mean?
You seem to have a misunderstanding of HOAs.
They don't *spring up* out of nowhere.
A community is planned out, the developer thinks "Hmmm...I want these buildings to have some common qualities and presentation" and so writes out a series of CC&Rs (Codes, Covenants, and Restrictions).
The homeowners or sub-contractors who come in and build in those lots are then bound to those CC&Rs and an HOA is formed to make sure people stick to them.
In other words, there is never that '51% vs 49%' split you are dreaming up. 100% of people in an HOA agreed to be members of that HOA. If they didn't, they wouldn't have bought property in that development. You can't buy a lot not knowing about an HOA that holds CC&Rs over it! Ineed, we just bought a house in an HOA. There are pages and PAGES and PAGES of contract details to make SURE that you KNOW you will be held to various CC&Rs.
I suppose it's technically possible for an HOA to form in a development that didn't have one before, but it can't be forced on you once you already own the land. If you want to vote yourself into it, you can, but you can't be forced.
And that's the key. You can't be forced to join an HOA. Either, it already exists and you are joining it, or one is being proposed and you vote to join it. Those are the only ways you can go from "not being part of an HOA" to "being part of an HOA".
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Yes I do have the right to junk up my yard, providing it doesn't represent a health hazard to the community. What I do on my property is my own business, providing I act within the bounds of overall law. Yes, I can grow nothing but weeds...some weeds are not only lovely but provide useful products that can be used. My home is MY HOME, not theirs. It's absolute.
It doesn't work that way. You have rights as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others.
You can't "pick and choose" WHICH rights of others you can infringe on or which are too much.
You say "providing it doesn't represent a health hazard to the community" - who are you to decide that ONLY if it provides a 'health hazard' it's wrong? What about damage to their property value? Why do you agree that it's wrong of you to do something only if it effects someone else's health but not their financial state?
LOL - well, I'm glad that nearly all American's aren't so short-sighted, or this country would be in a world of hurt.This is not a socialist society, nor a commune...we act on the basis of the individual here in America, not the whole...that's why I still live here.
After all, what good does it do to ME as an INDIVIDUAL to pay school taxes? I have no kids, nor will ever have them. What good does it do to ME as an INDIVIDUAL to pay taxes at ALL? I don't drive, have no personal need for a military, etc.
We act on the basis of the WHOLE here in America, with SOME consideration to the individual. But if you don't think "the group" comes first, you're dreaming.
Perhaps I have them confused with something else. My sisters family moved into a new development (they were the first or second family moved in) and after they were there about a month a group came knocking saying they were forming something that I thought was a HOA. My sisters family said no way, but after another month or two were presented a little booklet saying that they had been formed by popular agreement of the development (something like 80% of the residents). It layed out rules and responsibilities to live in that area. Turned into a HUGE legal battle over some stuff and caused hideous repurcussions. In the end it came down in favor of the group though, and now they're moving because they've lost all legal battles over being ruled by others. We've also had people campaigning for it here, where they go door to door periodically and try to get everyone on board to form one. So far nothing has ever come of it though. Perhaps it's a different type of thing though, more a neighborhood association or something, I'm not really sure because I'd never be involved in one.
It DOES work that way. I have no responsibility to you beyond not hurting you. You can't alter my life so you can get richer. CAN NOT. Money is nothing and you CAN NOT force someone to live their life according to others pursuit of it. I can't DIRECTLY harm you. I can't destroy or steal your property, etc. If I choose to have a purple and pink polka dot house, you have exactly ZERO choice in the matter...ESPECIALLY if I was there first. Might not be the laws interpretation of it, but it's the one I'll fight to the death over. Financial state DOES NOT EXIST. Money IS NOT REAL. It is a social construct without actual existence. Only real things exist. If PERCEPTION is the fulcrum of a things reality, then it is not real. You perceive financial state as existing, so it does for you. I don't agree, so it doesn't for me. You say I can't deny your financial state, yet you demand the right to deny my views on it...why do you get what you want and I don't? Popular consent? Hell, by popular consent slavery was wonderful, as was having sex with 13 year olds at one point. Popular opinion does not dictate fact nor reality...these things exist without human consent. That's what makes them real. Money = fiction. My house however, is VERY real. It's shelter, it's home. It's MINE absolute and total. What I do with it and/or on it, is MY CHOICE and no one elses. Again, may not be popular, may not be legal, but it's RIGHT and it's what I'll do.
America IS about individuals, hence the bill of rights. The nation was formed specifically so that people could have rights that the government could not take away. Free speech is NOT good for the whole, but it's the RIGHT of the individual...PERIOD. This nation is absolutely, totally, 100% in every way about the INDIVIDUAL and NOT the group. It's only socialist pollution of our ideals that have spread that kind of filth thinking.
Again, my opinion...you don't have to have it or agree with it...but understand you also won't pressure me into changing it. And if you infringe on it, you'd better be prepared for absolute all out total war.
Looks like somebody forgot their medication....
Tom
