[Fudzilla] New Nintendo Wii2 for 2012 using AMD R700 GPU

[RussianSensation]

R700 is atleast 2.5x more powerful than the xenos chip in the 360.

More like 4-5x. Post #19.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Crap, sorry I typed it wrong I guess. What I meant was I have a Dreamcast sitting in front of me and between it and the xbox/ps2 ,it was debatable, but the Dreamcast in my opinion was better then the gamecube.

I believe the best graphical game I played on the Gamecube was Resident Evil 4, but most of its releases were junk besides a few good games that you have mentioned.

ps2/Xbox had tons of games that were released for both systems and when compared vs each other I would say xbox had the edge graphically.

I believe Dreamcast had sports games that put both the xbox and ps2 to shame, even though it was out before the xbox/ps2. Most other games for this system were just great and with the backing of more 3rd party game developers, less piracy,and a dvd rom instead of a cgrom, I think it would have been a great long lasting system.

I got what you were saying just fine, but it didn't really matter. And why are you changing the argument? First you challenge the power of the Gamecube and then you switch to say it had crappy games. Just own up and admit you were completely wrong. I can see your deflection from a mile away.

But if you want to go down the software path, it's pretty clear you don't even have any idea what games came out for the Gamecube to even make a judgment call.

Dreamcast sports games? 2K sports games? There were 2K sports games released for every console, and the PS2 had most of them.

I believe the best graphical game I played on the Gamecube was Resident Evil 4, but most of its releases were junk besides a few good games that you have mentioned.

This statement is pretty worthless. Most of the releases for any console are junk.

 

[happy medium]

nvm
......

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Why do you get so angry when I simply state my opinion?

I think the gamecube overall as a console sucked. My kids liked it a little .

In 2002 the Dreamcast had the best sports games on the market, even better than the PS2.

I've owned every console since the Atari 2600 except the playstation 3, so that gives me a little experience with consoles, at least enough to form a opinion.

Angry? I'm calling out your statements. You said the Dreamcast was more powerful, you were dead wrong, and then you started talking about the games. What does your opinions about the games have to do with how powerful the systems are? That is a rhetorical question, but I'll answer it anyway. It has nothing to do with the topic. It's a red herring, and it's so easy to see.

Now there really is no point in talking about the software with you, which is what constitutes a console. You haven't demonstrated any familiarity with the actual software released. Right now it appears you're just making statements and claims out of pure ignorance, since your only statement on the matter implies almost every GCN game was junk. Owning the consoles mean nothing in and of itself when we're talking about the games.

2002? Now you're changing your argument again. We were talking about sports games over the entire life of the systems. The PS2 by far has the most and the best. The next year, 2003, 2K Sports games all went multiplatform and weren't made for the Dreamcast.

 

[happy medium]

Angry? I'm calling out your statements

nvm,,..

 

[happy medium]

Owning the consoles mean nothing in and of itself when we're talking about the games.

nvm...

 

[cusideabelincoln]

You mean my opinions don't you?

You've made erroneous factual statements. And all of your opinion statements really haven't been backed up with any kind of argument, evidence, or body of work.

So you think I bought every console made since 1978 and never bought a game?
Talk about ignorance?

I think its best you argue with yourself.
good day.

And now you're putting words into my mouth? Talk about logical fallacies.

So far you are the only one here to demonstrate ignorance, and the ability to use the word "ignorant" inappropriately. The simple fact you own a console does not mean you bothered to play a (relatively) significant portion of the games released for that console. You've only mentioned one game you've played - Resident Evil 4. For all we know you could have not played or researched other great games. The fact you said most, and implied almost all, the games were junk leads us to believe you probably have a pretty limited experience with GCN games, hence where your ignorance comes into play. You're really not giving us much to work with here.

And really, it's quite lovely you only quote ONE SENTENCE out of my entire post. Do I even need to say how pointless it is to debate when things are taken out of context? DOH!

What you're doing is pretty obvious. Just knock it off and stick with the conversation at hand.

 

[happy medium]

nvm

 

[Aristotelian]

Are deals such as this one considered a "big win"? I'm using a phrase that gets bandied about when Nvidia has scored some deals. The Wii was a lot of fun, and reasonably innovative. It was the one console I've used at friend's places that felt 'inclusive'. Even partners wanted to get up and play tennis by swinging the stick and what not. I wonder what they have in store for Wii2. Maybe I'll get my dream of a real 'update' for f-zero (snes).

 

[zebrax2]

The thing Nintendo is lacking right now is mind-share. However that could easily fixed by releasing a more powerful console than the current gen specially when the other competitors are ~2 years away from releasing theirs and advertisements.

If crysis is playable on 1080p with 4870 then what more if developers start optimizing the game to the graphic cards architecture.

BTW whats with the "nvm" edits in the thread? Its getting hard to follow the discussions simply because the reply that should be there is gone

 

[Aristotelian]

The thing Nintendo is lacking right now is mind-share. However that could easily fixed by releasing a more powerful console than the current gen specially when the other competitors are ~2 years away from releasing theirs and advertisements.

If crysis is playable on 1080p with 4870 then what more if developers start optimizing the game to the graphic cards architecture.

BTW whats with the "nvm" edits in the thread? Its getting hard to follow the discussions simply because the reply that should be there is gone

Almost every single 'nvm' (if not all of them) have been quoted and proven false by Cusideabelincoln. I think the edits were an attempt to drop that line of debate.

 

[wahdangun]

yeah sega was my favorite console company, shame the dreamcast was such a failure to them, I have a fond memory playing online games phantasy star, and I still have genesis its the best console I ever have

 

[cotak13]

Are deals such as this one considered a "big win"? I'm using a phrase that gets bandied about when Nvidia has scored some deals. The Wii was a lot of fun, and reasonably innovative. It was the one console I've used at friend's places that felt 'inclusive'. Even partners wanted to get up and play tennis by swinging the stick and what not. I wonder what they have in store for Wii2. Maybe I'll get my dream of a real 'update' for f-zero (snes).

If true of course they are big wins. You are basically getting a assured line of income for in the case of the last wii 5 years running now. And in the case of the xbox 360 6 years now and if rumors are correct another 2 years to go. All for a fixed 1 time sales and 1 time development cost plus various lifetime support cost, which should much lower relative to development costs.

It's likely one of the most profitable product any part vendor can get involve with. I mean compare to the PC where the OEM can switch out your part at the drop of a hat.

It's not a big brand recognition win though since most people have no idea what's inside a console.

 

[yottabit]

I really think it's going to be a lot less powerful than you guys are hoping. I would think based on the current business model Nintendo is using it's going to be a heavily cut down and CHEAP GPU, that will let the Wii2 run games similar to what it's already playing (cartoony graphics) in 1080p and finally have full HD support. I don't think it's likely that Nintendo will risk jeaopardizing the Wii brand by going after the throats of Xbox and PS3 for the "hardcore" games. I almost see it as if theres room for a second console in Nintendo's lineup. And it's not like they'll be able to easily port all the games cross-platform since the Wii's controller setup is completely different. Kinect and Move games perhaps, but not ones that rely on the far more advanced Xbox 360 and PS3 controllers.

It would be an interesting change of events if Nintendo took advantage of the comfort Sony and Microsoft are enjoying refusing to further their hardware. I've heard that by releasing Kinect and Move they were effectively pushing back the launch dates of their next consoles. I just don't think the Wii brand is going to be used to that end. Look at DS vs. PSP, Wii vs PS3 and Xbox360, and even Gamecube vs. PS2, Nintendo has been going for branding and functionality rather than raw power. And it makes great business sense- selling cheaper to manufacture parts for a similar price.

 

[Grooveriding]

To address just one of your points. I expect the wii2 to have newly designed controllers like every new console they put out does.

 

[DeathReborn]

To address just one of your points. I expect the wii2 to have newly designed controllers like every new console they put out does.

If they do I really hope they stop with the asymetric analogue stick locations. Their N64/GC controllers were both unmitigated disasters in my opinion.

 

[Nintendesert]

If they do I really hope they stop with the asymetric analogue stick locations. Their N64/GC controllers were both unmitigated disasters in my opinion.

The N64 was revolutionary and one of the best controllers ever released for a console. I loved how well it felt and played at the time.

 

[Anarchist420]

So the Dreamcast was more powerful than the PS2, GCN, and Xbox?

It was less powerful than all 3, but it had a superior feature set to all 3. VQ texture compression is better than DXT/S3TC, only the DC and PS2 had 32 bit depth precision, with the DC's depth testing even being floating point.
The GC had worse filtering than the DC, and the GC also couldn't even do 24 bit color. It was only RGBA6.

Where the DC was lacking was in horsepower (the SH4/vector graphics engine should've been ~550 MHz and maybe had more bandwidth and RAM. It also would've been sweet if the PVR CLX2 had been clocked maybe 15-25% and had 12MB or 16 MB of VRAM to work with).

You do realize that both AMD and nVidia have had issues with shimmering textures? At one point, there was a huge outcry about how bad nVidia's shimmering texture issue was compared to AMD. Not that AMD hasn't had their own shares of such issues.

Do you know who forced Sega out of the console wars? Sega. Management and other decision makers ran that once proud company into the ground with one mistake after another. I owned a Dreamcast and thought it a shame that it died prematurely but let's all put the proper blame where it belongs. And if you think Sega got their crap together after that...look at the state of the company today and look at what they've done. Quite frankly, I'm not impressed.

Apparently AMD's graphics chips are so inferior that they can't compete at 1080p resolution. Let's all petition AMD to shut down their video card division and stop wasting shareholder's money cause they simply can't compete with nVidia. Let's also write Microsoft and tell them that the AMD GPU in their Xbox 360 sucks and is noncompetitive and should be scrapped ASAP.

Nintendo's Wii is "underpowered" because Nintendo chose to make it that way. Not because AMD could not provide them a more powerful GPU. Relatively speaking, the previous Nintendo consoles were in the same range as other consoles released during their respective generations. It was only the with the Wii where we saw a huge disparity in hardware power. Obviously I'm excluding portable consoles where Nintendo has always been relatively underpowered compared to competitors.

Nvidia's shimmering problems have been gone on HQ since the 2006 with the 8800 GTX.

Yes, I realize that bad management forced Sega out. But, really, Nintendo benefited from business decisions I personally think they really should have suffered from.

Don't make me laugh. Rogue Squadron, Metroid Prime... and hell even Soul Calibur 2 shined on the Gamecube.

Every multiplatform game to release was determined to look best on Xbox, followed closely be the Gamecube, and then the PS2 brings up the rear.

The Dreamcast is not more powerful than the Gamecube, and you don't know what you're talking about if you think the PS2 and Xbox were comparable.

The Xbox version usually looked the best, but PS2 versions usually looked better than the GC versions because of less artifacts (prince of persia for example), although the GC versions had better, larger, vibrant textures (RE4). The PS2's GS had more depth buffer precision, better programmability (I'd say the vector units in the EE were better than the GC's fixed function T&L unit), and a full 32 bit RGBA buffer compared to the PoSGCube.

 

[Blitzvogel]

The Xbox version usually looked the best, but PS2 versions usually looked better than the GC versions because of less artifacts (prince of persia for example), although the GC versions had better, larger, vibrant textures (RE4). The PS2's GS had more depth buffer precision, better programmability (I'd say the vector units in the EE were better than the GC's fixed function T&L unit), and a full 32 bit RGBA buffer compared to the PoSGCube.

I bet the Vector Units in the EE were probably better than the vertex units in XGPU. They were certainly more flexible in practice since they had to be able to do so much more.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Yes, I realize that bad management forced Sega out. But, really, Nintendo benefited from business decisions I personally think they really should have suffered from.

The Xbox version usually looked the best, but PS2 versions usually looked better than the GC versions because of less artifacts (prince of persia for example), although the GC versions had better, larger, vibrant textures (RE4). The PS2's GS had more depth buffer precision, better programmability (I'd say the vector units in the EE were better than the GC's fixed function T&L unit), and a full 32 bit RGBA buffer compared to the PoSGCube.

Is there some kind of negative bias here? I see no need for it.

But disregarding that...

http://insider.ign.com/articles/440/440847p4.html

GameCube, although we expected it to fall "somewhere in the middle" between the PlayStation 2 and Xbox as it often does,

For the final visual verdict, we keep being led back to the GameCube. The Xbox has superior lighting. It has more polygons. It should look better. Problem is, it really doesn't. These upgrades are subtle and don't have a sweeping effect. What we see is the brighter, more colorful worlds and seemingly more detailed textures in the GameCube version. And though everything we know says the Xbox version should look better, our eyes tell us otherwise.

We give the edge to GameCube then; it's clearer, more vibrant worlds show off the game in flying colors -- literally. Xbox is a definite recommend right behind it -- especially if you prefer the polygons over the overall coloring and clarity differences.

All three versions support only 480p progressive scan. No widescreen.

Winner Ranking:
1. GameCube
2. Xbox
3. PlayStation 2

Difference between 1 and 2: minor
Difference between 2 and 3: medium

The other systems (PS2, DC) may have a feature advantage, or flexibility, but without the horsepower to back them up the end result isn't necessarily better.

 

[RussianSensation]

Their N64/GC controllers were both unmitigated disasters in my opinion.

N64 was one of the most comfortable controllers imo. PS3 imo is one of the laziest designs ever (basically a PS2 controller). PS4 will probably look exactly the same as the PS3 controller (feels way too small in your hands). Xbox360 is pretty good though.

 

[Mopetar]

Their N64/GC controllers were both unmitigated disasters in my opinion.

The N64 controller wasn't the most elegant design, but it definitely influenced the design of other controllers.

Also, I would say the GC controller is probably the best designed of any controller. It fits incredibly well in the hands and the button layout is superb.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

N64 was one of the most comfortable controllers imo. PS3 imo is one of the laziest designs ever (basically a PS2 controller). PS4 will probably look exactly the same as the PS3 controller (feels way too small in your hands). Xbox360 is pretty good though.

-Never liked the PS controller, the left thumbstick is in the wrong place. Its great for fighters or anything else that really needs that D-Pad (almost nothing nowadays) but otherwise it just sucks. The Xbox 360 controller is more or less controller perfection given what most people play (its TERRIBLE for fighting games though).

 

[akugami]

Nvidia's shimmering problems have been gone on HQ since the 2006 with the 8800 GTX.

The shimmering is currently noticeable only in a few games at this time and barely noticeable in most of those few games. I'd call the shimmering as it currently exists at this time to be largely a nonfactor.

Sometimes ATI has had the edge in image quality, sometimes nVidia. ATI and nVidia are equal in the image quality department at this time outside of a few isolated issues for each company. One could easily point to cases where ATI trumps nVidia in IQ today.

Yes, I realize that bad management forced Sega out. But, really, Nintendo benefited from business decisions I personally think they really should have suffered from.

Ok. But your claim was that Nintendo releasing a console in 2012 feels like a repeat of the situation with Sega and their early release of the Dreamcast. I'm pointing out why outside of the respective companies releasing their consoles a year to two earlier than the competition the situations are nothing alike. Mainly it has to do with the financial straits of both Sega and Nintendo. Sega was running itself into the ground and outside of the Virtual Boy Nintendo has never seen a console it hasn't made a decent amount of money on.

You are entitled to your opinions but they are just that, opinions. Your feelings about a company has no bearing on whether that company is well run. Sega was mishandled during the Saturn and Dreamcast period while Nintendo, even as it was losing market share, was for the most part a well run business that turned a profit every year. Your opinion has no bearing on the fact that Sega and Nintendo are releasing their respective consoles in completely different business environments. Where the Dreamcast as I've previously said was a "do or die" situation for Sega, Nintendo can release a clunker and still would not be in any danger of being forced out of the console market.

Having said all of that, I'll say that I believe Nintendo made some boneheaded moves that allowed Sony's PS1 to succeed. Just like Sony made some boneheaded moves that left it going from unquestionable king of the consoles during the PS2 era to just another competitor during the PS3.

 

[RussianSensation]

-Never liked the PS controller, the left thumbstick is in the wrong place.

Not only are the thumbsticks too close and at the same level, making it very uncomfortable to use, but the feel of the grip on top of them and the "force of feedback" (or resistance) from them is way off. PS controller is one of the worst in that regard imo. It's a shame Sony hasn't bothered redesigning the controller for 10 years!