Frontline: Cell Tower Deaths

[dmcowen674]

You really didn't watch the video did you? Very experienced people were just as guilty. It has nothing to do with "workers with no experience", it has to do with the climbers actively disregarding safety guidelines. I swear, people will alleviate anyone of personal responsibility to blame companies for anything.

So that is your justification for $10hr?

 

[Away]

So that is your justification for $10hr?

Don't take the job if you aren't willing to work for $10 per hour. It's not like they were lied to about the wage or something.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by dmcowen674
So that is your justification for $10hr?

Don't take the job if you aren't willing to work for $10 per hour. It's not like they were lied to about the wage or something.

So high paying jobs are plentiful?

Where?

 

[Away]

So high paying jobs are plentiful?

Where?

Again, don't take the job if you aren't willing to do it for the offered wage. There are other blue collar jobs out there that are safer and pay the same amount if not a bit more. Logistics and transportation jobs for example. If they truly want a higher paying job, get an education so you can work in a better field. I have known quite a few people who have worked a blue collar job and gone to school at the same time so it is possible.

 

[Craig234]

It's the same old issue.

The owners always have the same interests: minimize their costs. Pay less, spend less on safety, etc.

Sometimes things can artifically incent them to do better - unions forcing higher wages, fines and lawsuits making a lack of safety costly.

People would do well to understand the history of these issues and how if they can, workers get their wages and safety way too low by the owners.

And it's the same debate; those who want decent things for workers on one side, and the ignorant apologists for owners saying 'if you don't like it don't do it' on the others.

CurrentTV and other channels have some good documentaries how bad this gets - such as workers getting sulfur from a volcano, walking through zones of poisonous gas, carrying very heavy loads up rocky cliffs where they fall hundreds of feet - for almost nothing, because it's that or starve.

It's immoral what 'the right' fights for on issues like this - blame the workers.

It's because the companies, under competitive pressure, push hard for cutting costs to the point of going too far; and the success of right-wing propaganda to elect the sort of whore politicians who will vote for any 'pro-business laws' to not do anything to improve the situation.

It comes down to voters who are idiots easily duped into voting for the bad guys because the advertising for them is well funded, defeating democracy.

 

[xj0hnx]

So that is your justification for $10hr?

What are you talking about? Some of them make $10 an hour, the entry level position, and not all companies only start at $10 an hour, many pay a LOT more. It's just more hyperbole and lies from you.

 

[Train]

It's immoral what 'the right' fights for on issues like this - blame the workers

Uhh yeah, you basically embody what everyone in this thread is complaining about. Idiots who can't face consequences.

Nowhere did any of the carriers ask them to ignore safety rules to cut costs. The workers did it themselves or were clowning around.

 

[Train]

Give us an example.

::crickets::

 

[xj0hnx]

It's immoral what 'the right' fights for on issues like this - blame the workers.

What's "immoral" is your constant partisan bullshit. The simple fact is that the workers in this case are the ones that choose not to tie off, and use their safety gear, period. Even if the caries CEO personally came down and dropped off all brand new safety equipment, it does not good if the workers don't use it.

 

[Train]

What's "immoral" is your constant partisan bullshit. The simple fact is that the workers in this case are the ones that choose not to tie off, and use their safety gear, period. Even if the caries CEO personally came down and dropped off all brand new safety equipment, it does not good if the workers don't use it.

Don't bother, he didnt watch the video, and likely won't. But I did think it was ridiculous when they interviewed the one OSHA inspector who investigated a death and said the workers had brand new safety gear in their trucks still in the unopened bags they came in.

 

[Dominato3r]

They pay ~200 to a 'tuxor" (sp? watched it this morning can't recall the name), who then highers a contractor, who then hires a subcontracter, etc. There's multiple levels of companies it goes through. At the end the worker gets paid $10/hour for an extremely dangerous job and the carriers cannot be held liable because there's multiple layers of contractors who take that burden upon themselves for these lucrative contracts.

 

[umbrella39]

I laughed when I read the title. Don't worry liberal ladies, some government agency or union will come along and protect these people, and make sure they make much more than the company can afford. Then the companies will go out of business and unemployment will go up. It's the new american way, don't you know.

I laugh when people like you bend over and take it with a smile. Bite pillows all you want.

 

[Craig234]

Don't bother, he didnt watch the video...

See, this is a good example of reality slapping you in the face, and you not getting a clue.

I watched a good part of the video before I posted, so your judgement about that, like the rest of the issue, is wrong.

But your saying crap you make up that's wrong won't stop because it's shown wrong.

That's the thing poor judgement causes. Clueless.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

That's the thing poor judgement causes. Clueless.

It also happens to cause death when applied to heights.

 

[PokerGuy]

If you think $10 is not enough to justify the risks associated with climbing the towers, don't take the job. If you do want to take the job, how about actually following safety instructions and not free-climbing (it's strictly prohibited for a reason). As an added bonus, try not to smoke dope before climbing up. How hard is this to grasp: supply and demand dictates the amount paid for a service. If they can find enough people to do the job for $10, then that's what they need to pay. Duh.

It never fails to amaze how dimlibs seek out ways to blame everyone other than those responsible for everything that happens.

 

[xj0hnx]

If you think $10 is not enough to justify the risks associated with climbing the towers, don't take the job. If you do want to take the job, how about actually following safety instructions and not free-climbing (it's strictly prohibited for a reason). As an added bonus, try not to smoke dope before climbing up. How hard is this to grasp: supply and demand dictates the amount paid for a service. If they can find enough people to do the job for $10, then that's what they need to pay. Duh.

It never fails to amaze how dimlibs seek out ways to blame everyone other than those responsible for everything that happens.

y0 dawg the republicans made it so that no one can get a job paying more than $10 an hour, and everyone is so depressed about it they have to smoke the dopes to copes.

 

[Train]

See, this is a good example of reality slapping you in the face, and you not getting a clue.

I watched most of the video before I posted, so your judgement about that, like the rest of the issue, is wrong.

But your saying crap you make up that's wrong won't stop because it's shown wrong.

That's the thing poor judgement causes. Clueless.

Oh I'm sure you played the video, you just didnt watch it.

Further shown by your lack of anything else to add.

 

[roguerower]

Unless you work in construction you do not know how difficult it is to get people to follow safety rules and policies. I work for a commercial general contractor with a sizeable presence on almost every job we work and EVERY FUCKING DAY we come across people doing things un-safely even though the day before we stopped them, told them why they shouldn't do the work in that manner, and checked on them throughout the day. Every day I walk my jobsite and try to come up with a safer way of doing work. We even have a dedicated safety guy for a $30mil job. The workers either do it or don't. You can't fix stupid.

The workers decided to free climb. The only way to fix the issue is to have a dedicated presence by the overall contract holder. Anything short of that is not a fix, just lip service.

EDIT: In addition, construction is the MOST dangerous occupation in the country. In 2011 there were 578 fatalities, of which 180 were fall related. The 100 they reported between 03-08 (years might be off) is just a tip of the iceberg, but because OSHA can't fine the cell companies, they must be more evil than every other contractor who had a worker die on the job.

 

[DrPizza]

Unless you work in construction you do not know how difficult it is to get people to follow safety rules and policies. I work for a commercial general contractor with a sizeable presence on almost every job we work and EVERY FUCKING DAY we come across people doing things un-safely even though the day before we stopped them, told them why they shouldn't do the work in that manner, and checked on them throughout the day. Every day I walk my jobsite and try to come up with a safer way of doing work. We even have a dedicated safety guy for a $30mil job. The workers either do it or don't. You can't fix stupid.

The workers decided to free climb. The only way to fix the issue is to have a dedicated presence by the overall contract holder. Anything short of that is not a fix, just lip service.

The video states that the rate of deaths is 10 times that of construction workers. I know that when my son trained as a linesman, they had climbing tests. If you didn't climb properly and safely, you were done - you didn't move on, go find a different occupation.

The most important person to prevent these deaths is whoever is in charge at the site. Toward the beginning of the video, a guy was stating that someone who had died was free climbing all the time. The first time he free climbed, whoever the foreman at the site was should have given him a warning, 2nd time, fired.

And, if safety meant $$$$ to companies, I guarantee you that this would happen. The problem is that there's really no accountability - no company to turn to and sue for millions after a worker dies. Thus, with no risk to the company, who cares if guys are acting like idiots.

As roguepower pointed out - at least they're going through the job sites and pointing out and attempting to correct the problems. Quickest way to correct a lot of the problems: fire people (I personally believe in one warning first.)

 

[Craig234]

Oh I'm sure you played the video, you just didnt watch it.

Further shown by your lack of anything else to add.

And so you're dishonest as well as clueless?

It's starting to sound like you're the one who only heard what you wanted to from it.

Ya, there was a lot of the cause being workers not using safety gear -as a direct cause. But the film also showed how that was greatly increased by pressure from the people hiring the contractors, and how only holding the contractors accountable was not going to get the safety measures enforced. You seem to just have not heard any of that part.

 

[ShawnD1]

And, if safety meant $$$$ to companies, I guarantee you that this would happen. The problem is that there's really no accountability - no company to turn to and sue for millions after a worker dies. Thus, with no risk to the company, who cares if guys are acting like idiots.

Maybe the rules are different in the US, but in Canada companies care a lot about safety. Having a person get injured or die is very costly. An entire construction project can grind to a halt until the cause of the problem is known. Having a guy die could cost millions of dollars. Most companies don't screw around when it comes to safety. You might get a warning or you might get fired immediately without a warning if you're doing something dangerous.

 

[PokerGuy]

The problem is that there's really no accountability - no company to turn to and sue for millions after a worker dies. Thus, with no risk to the company, who cares if guys are acting like idiots.

Why is that a problem? Why should someone else be held accountable for people getting hurt by doing stupid things that they've been told not to do? Why should someone else be held accountable when people get hurt because they refuse to use the safety equipment provided?

Seems to me like the proper parties ARE being held accountable, the people doing the stupid things are the ones who deal with the results. Why should that be someone else's problem? Seems like more of the usual dimlib mentality where someone else is always responsible when something goes bad. Heaven forbid people be accountable for their own actions.

 

[umbrella39]

The whole concept of personal accountability is skewed when the person paying your paycheck says we need that tower done TODAY or we are going to lose our contract and you are going to lose your job knowing full well that using the proper safety equipment assures it unable to be done in to make the deadline... (no pun intended)

 

[Craig234]

Maybe the rules are different in the US, but in Canada companies care a lot about safety. Having a person get injured or die is very costly. An entire construction project can grind to a halt until the cause of the problem is known. Having a guy die could cost millions of dollars. Most companies don't screw around when it comes to safety. You might get a warning or you might get fired immediately without a warning if you're doing something dangerous.

Exactly, and this is effective at increasing safety - but it's exactly what Republicans are actually targeting with their 'regulations are the problem' propaganda.

 

[Train]

Exactly, and this is effective at increasing safety - but it's exactly what Republicans are actually targeting with their 'regulations are the problem' propaganda.

It was asked once already in this thread but was ignored, I'll ask again...

What regulations were removed here?

Anything to point the finger at someone else.