Freedom of Speech in Europe?

[DaFinn]

OK, one more time. These laws were mostly put in place BY THE ALLIES (including USA) after WWII. Reason was to prevent a neo-nazi government ever gaining power again.
In most coutnries which have them, these laws are not enforced. Only coutries actually enforcing it are Austria and Germany (and Israel).

AND, the laws say "PUBLIC DENIAL" which does NOT PREVENT FREEDOM OF SPEACH! You can deny holocaust as your own opinion to your friends all you want!!! Public denial means publishing books about it or making public speeches etc! As long as you don't try to shove that idea down other peoples throat, youll be just fine!

AND USA LARGELY INFLUENCED IN GETTING THESE LAWS IN PLACE, so all you Americans can stop that "holier than though" act right now!

 

[Aimster]

You know if this took place in some other country and the person was sent to jail for denying the religion of Islam ..

boom 1000x threads about it on atot

 

[B00ne]

Everyone gets the same treatment - if a Muslim publically denies the holocaust it would get him to the courts too 😉

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
- it is not controlled by the government like in Europe where films are routinely banned for ridiculous reasons.

Since this is new to me (I live in Europe) could you mention a few movies that have been banned? Just to know what kind of movies we are talking about...

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: asadasif


?Holocaust denial? laws violate ancient and universal standards of justice. They criminalize even factual or truthful statements that ?play down? or ?whitewash? the Holocaust. They are selective and one-sided. In countries where they are on the books, the Holocaust is the only chapter of history that cannot be freely discussed. They inhibit historical inquiry and restrict free speech. They are a disgrace, and should be repealed.

QFT.[/quote]

There is nothing true about this statement. Holocaust can be freely discussed, historic inquiry is not restricted. Just dont go running around teaching your students the Nazis were all buddy with everyone and facsism is all about fuzzy warm feeling for each other.

BTW, a holocaust denier would not discuss the holocaust anyway, you forgot it didnt happen, so there is nothing to discuss, right....

 

[Mardeth]

Originally posted by: UglyCasanova
It's about freedom to hold an opinion. How the fvck can they make a law outlawing an opinion? It's beyond me...

No its not. You can say as muh as you want "I dont believe that the holocaust happend" and youll be just fine. Going on the streets shouting the same message and spreading fliers and what not might get you arrested... And I think rightfully so.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
- it is not controlled by the government like in Europe where films are routinely banned for ridiculous reasons.

Since this is new to me (I live in Europe) could you mention a few movies that have been banned? Just to know what kind of movies we are talking about...

All sorts of movies have been banned in various countries. Some get unbanned after some years. Dirty Harry, A Clockwork Orange, The Life of Brian and other Monty Python films, Natural Born Killers, Lion of the Desert, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and The Battle of Algiers are what I can name off the top of my head.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Aimster
You know if this took place in some other country and the person was sent to jail for denying the religion of Islam ..

boom 1000x threads about it on atot

If said person were in an Islamic country and publicly denied that Mohammed was the prophet of Allah, he would be lucky to get jail time. More likely, he would be dismembered by rioting crowds, shot, beheaded, had fatwas declared against him, or worse.

 

[0roo0roo]

he picks on this because defending muslim outrage over cartoons is not possible. this is a small gripe based on historical circumstances. its not a matter of ideology, but history.

you don't even want to get into muslims and apostasy. its death to the infidel on that one too. they are in direct conflict with the declaration of universal human rights on that matter.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
All sorts of movies have been banned in various countries.

Including America, right. 😉
Lots of books too

One off the top of the list

Conspiracy of Silence is a 56 minute documentary film detailing an alleged child sex scandal that involved many children from Nebraska institution, Boys Town and Lawrence King, or Lawrence "Larry" King. The organized child sex parties implicated the Reagan and Bush White House during the 1980s. King was the ringleader of the sex ring which had links to other fellow political conservatives in Washington D.C. including Republican lobbyist Craig Spence, Sen. Elizabeth Dole's staff, along with members of the financial elite of Nebraska.

However, the documentary was never aired. This is because Congress threatened more restrictive television laws. Most copies of the finished product were destroyed by parties unknown, but a mostly completed work print of the documentary was sent anonymously to former State Senator Nebraska attorney John DeCamp a year after all copies were supposedly destroyed.

Conspiracy of Silence

Banned films

List of banned books

 

[1EZduzit]

I was looking through the ban lists out of curisosity and see that Fahrenheit 9/11 is banned in Kuwait.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I was looking through the ban lists out of curisosity and see that Fahrenheit 9/11 is banned in Kuwait.

Wonder who pulled that string eh ? 😉

Out of curiosity, I tried to find a copy of Disney's Song of the South. No go from Amazon U.S.
but can be imported from parts unknown from Amazon Canada for $250 :Q but still *out of stock*

Although the film has been re-released several times (most recently in 1986 in the United States), Disney has avoided making it available on home video tape or DVD in the United States of America because the frame story was deemed racist by studio management. Film critic Roger Ebert has supported this position, noting that most Disney films become a part of the consciousness of American children, who take films more literally than do adults. The film has been released on video in various European and Asian countries. In the U.S., only excerpts from the animated segments have ever appeared in Disney's television shows.

The Splash Mountain attractions at Disneyland and Walt Disney World feature the animated characters and songs from this film. Some deem this as strange, as many of the young attendees to the parks have never had an opportunity to view the film.

James Baskett, the leading black actor in the film, was reportedly unable to attend the premiere in Atlanta, Georgia as no hotel within reach of the theater would rent him a room.

Song of the South

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Tango

Actually in many ways freedom of speech is MORE wide in Europe than in the US, expecially about works of Art. Ask yourself why so many european movies are 20 minutes shorter in their US distribution. Sex scenes get cut, along with scenes considered "disturbing for common morality". Talk to somebody who works in the movie industry and he will tell you what they need to cope with in order to avoid ultra restrictive ratings on their movies. Same happens in the advertising industry. Have a walk in paris and you will see 90% of the Ads having partial or total nudity. In New York you don't see any.

I am in complete disagreement. Many films have been banned in Europe. What you are talking about is a voluntary film rating imposed by the movie industry itself - it is not controlled by the government like in Europe where films are routinely banned for ridiculous reasons. Movie ratings in the US are not an issue of freedom of speech. Banned movies in Europe are an issue of freedom of speech. The list of banned movies in Europe is large. A movie would only be banned in the US if it had something like child pornography or some other legal complication. Many films have bans based on content in several European countries.

Not only are movies routinely banned in Europe, but now artists are threatended with death (Theo Van Gogh, Mohammed cartoons, etc.). But that's not a freedom of speech issue with the government until they ban it.

Hate speech, holocaust denial, banned films, etc. are all big restrictions on freedom of speech in various European countries. It is utterly ridiculous to claim that freedom of speech is more wide in Europe when the government has imposed so many restrictions. In some countries insulting the monarch is illegal, too.

Hey, we already discussed this. I made a poin about freedom of speech in the ARTS. And I didn't say BAN, I said CUT. They movie industry in the US cuts badly many productions because some scenes would result in extremely restrictive ratings. In some cases (Irreversible, RomanceX, some of Pasolini) the US cut version was 20 minutes shorter than the original, that is 20% of the content. The US have problems with sex, even when used for artistic or communication purposes. I never said movies were never banned in Europe. Of course they were, like in any other place in the world. But just as I do not talk about McCarthy when I talk about the US, I don't talk about fascism when I talk about the EU countries. Right now the american society have a more restrictive position on what should appear on a movie theatre screen than the european one. That's it. Child pornography is banned in the US and Europe alike, and for a reason. I was just talking about much softer things, like complete nudity in ballet, opera and theater productions, explicit sex scenes (Catherine Breillat was considered pornography in the US for example, and was instead distributed in normal movie theaters in Europe), or nudity in advertising.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Aimster
You know if this took place in some other country and the person was sent to jail for denying the religion of Islam ..

boom 1000x threads about it on atot

If said person were in an Islamic country and publicly denied that Mohammed was the prophet of Allah, he would be lucky to get jail time. More likely, he would be dismembered by rioting crowds, shot, beheaded, had fatwas declared against him, or worse.

& if the said person was in Israel and denied the Holocaust he would get beaten to death as well.

What is your point? That's right you don't have one.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Aimster
You know if this took place in some other country and the person was sent to jail for denying the religion of Islam ..

boom 1000x threads about it on atot

For the last f-ing time... there is a difference between the FACT of Holocaust and the BELIEF of Islam.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Aimster
You know if this took place in some other country and the person was sent to jail for denying the religion of Islam ..

boom 1000x threads about it on atot

For the last f-ing time... there is a difference between the FACT of Holocaust and the BELIEF of Islam.

Who the hell are you trying to lecturing? You are not smarter than I. I didn't say there was a difference now did I. Reading comprehension for the win.

If I went to Israel and made fun of Jews I wouldn't get punched or beaten up? Is that what you are trying to say? I think not. Common sense for the win.

Plenty of wins above. Follow them and you too can be a winner.

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
- it is not controlled by the government like in Europe where films are routinely banned for ridiculous reasons.

Since this is new to me (I live in Europe) could you mention a few movies that have been banned? Just to know what kind of movies we are talking about...

All sorts of movies have been banned in various countries. Some get unbanned after some years. Dirty Harry, A Clockwork Orange, The Life of Brian and other Monty Python films, Natural Born Killers, Lion of the Desert, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and The Battle of Algiers are what I can name off the top of my head.

A Clockwork Orange and Natural Born Killers were initially banned in Ireland. The Life of Brian was banned in Ireland for eight years, and in Norway for 1 year. Dirty Harry was banned for 1 year in Finland.
The Texas Chain Saw Massacre was banned is Ireland and Sweden. Both countries eventually released it as 18+. The Battle of Algiers was banned in France between 1965 and 1971. Today, however, no film is banned in any of the EU countries.

As the US has a problem with sex, Europe has (and even more so in the past) a problem with violence.

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

All sorts of movies have been banned in various countries. Some get unbanned after some years. Dirty Harry, A Clockwork Orange, The Life of Brian and other Monty Python films, Natural Born Killers, Lion of the Desert, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and The Battle of Algiers are what I can name off the top of my head.

I dont know where those movies have been banned but not here - at least not that I am aware of.

 

[imported_Tango]

Anyway, my point was just about some sensible topics and images that get special treatment in the US as well. Imagine these advertising panels in american streets if you can:

Puma Brasil, released in France, Italy and Spain as well:
http://www.lozoodiverona.it/images/Spot%20-%20Puma%20Brasil.jpg

Gucci, Italy:
http://www.racingmix.com/temp/march03/gucci.jpg

Herve Lewis pictures for Aubade France, amazing photographer... also note the quotes 🙂

http://membres.lycos.fr/ibr4u/aubade/Herve_Lewis/livrecata.JPG
http://www.lapanse.com/pages/images/pub...ade_calendrier_2003/aubade_dec2003.jpg
http://webchantier.free.fr/pubancien/confection/aubade.jpg
http://www.topwalls.com/misc/aubade/aubade4.jpg

Monica Bellucci in GQ's 2001 campaign, Italy:
http://www.trailerland.com/images/Monica/Monica_Bellucci_029.jpg

Versace, Italy:
http://adsoftheworld.com/files/images/versace_3.preview.JPG

Ziegler, Germany form the creative genius of advertising's enfant terrible Jung von Matt:

http://adsoftheworld.com/media/print/ziegler_womans_prefect_dream
http://adsoftheworld.com/media/print/ziegler_mans_perfect_dream

Diesel, Italy:
http://adsoftheworld.com/files/images/diesel.preview.jpg

Sisley, Italy, amazing work by Terry Richardson:
http://db.riskwaters.com/data/bjp/080904/expo.gif
http://www.labcom.ubi.pt/jornadas_pubcomunicacao/imagens/Sisley.jpg
http://images.qianlong.com/mmsource/images/2004/06/08/ysty040608009.jpg
http://img.adme.ru/2004/09/29/1642/sisley01_11.jpg
http://www.vipintv.com/riviste/richards...ryRichardsonSisley_AW_2003_2004-06.jpg
http://img.adme.ru/2004/09/29/1642/sisley01_8.jpg
http://www.zonazero.ru/raznoe/sisley!.jpg

And of course, the Godfather of provocative advertising Oliviero Toscani, Italy:
http://images.virgilio.it/n_canali/foto...ressiv😵liviero/432844538f7ac_big.jpg
http://images-srv.leonardo.it/progettiweb/wordsofnoa/foto/img_431819b200029_middlea.jpg
http://clarence.supereva.com//contents/...cabili/003toscani/images/benetton2.jpg
http://www.xs4all.nl/~maxb/benetton.jpg

The list could go on almost forever...

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Aimster
If I went to Israel and made fun of Jews I wouldn't get punched or beaten up?

I love ethnic jokes... and religious jokes. I don't mind people making fun of Jews, or anyone else for that matter.

If you went to Israel and made fun of Jews, you might get beaten up... depending on the kind of people you address... however - you're unlikely to have your head cut off with a knife, while someone else films the procedure.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
All sorts of movies have been banned in various countries.

Including America, right. 😉
Lots of books too

Like I said, the movies that would be banned in the US in modern times were because of a court order not based upon content (unless it had something like child pornography). Thanks for proving my point.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Out of curiosity, I tried to find a copy of Disney's Song of the South. No go from Amazon U.S.
but can be imported from parts unknown from Amazon Canada for $250 :Q but still *out of stock*

Are you implying that it is banned? It is not. Disney can make its own decisions on its products. They don't have a Queen that can order them to produce a product.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Tango
Anyway, my point was just about some sensible topics and images that get special treatment in the US as well. Imagine these advertising panels in american streets if you can

Freedom of speech in advertising is limited in these regards in the US. However, they are not banned 100%. They could still be shown in non-public places, magazines, etc. Films have been completely banned in Europe.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Aimster
If I went to Israel and made fun of Jews I wouldn't get punched or beaten up?

I love ethnic jokes... and religious jokes. I don't mind people making fun of Jews, or anyone else for that matter.

If you went to Israel and made fun of Jews, you might get beaten up... depending on the kind of people you address... however - you're unlikely to have your head cut off with a knife, while someone else films the procedure.

If I went to Israel and I stood there making fun of Jews, chances are I would die.

If I went to the middle of the U.S and I made fun of Christianity chances are I would die.

Some people take their faith seriously and will go to extreme measures to protect it. You might take it as a joke, but I guarantee you not everyone takes it as a joke. You are probably not a really religious man.

Care to show me who was kidnapped and had their head cut off for making fun of the religion of Islam?

 

[piasabird]

So are you saying everyone that insults a religion should go to jail or what. Jay Lenno and others would be in serious danger if that was the case.

We have to be realistic.