Fox News basic math via their graphics

[Fenixgoon]

Ah yes, taking a page from nVidia & AMD.

:biggrin::biggrin::thumbsup::thumbsup:

all depends on the scale, OP.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

So is politifact too right leaning for you? http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...5/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/

Your position is basically that Under Pressure and Ice Ice Baby are the same song because they share the same riffs.

What were you saying about a bubble?

You did read the part where it says the major concepts are the same right?

Was it a copy/paste of the GOP proposal? Of course not.

Are the majority of the major concepts of both bills the same? Yes.

404 no bubble found.

 

[TerryMathews]

You did read the part where it says the major concepts are the same right?

Was it a copy/paste of the GOP proposal? Of course not.

Are the majority of the major concepts of both bills the same? Yes.

404 no bubble found.

Did you read the part from politifact's analysis?

That said, the Senate plan from 1993 was*not identical*to the health care law that passed in 2010. The Republican bill did not expand Medicaid as Obamacare does, and it did have medical malpractice tort reform, which the current law does not. In contrast to the current employer mandate, the Chafee bill required employers to offer insurance, but they were under no obligation to help pay for it.

These are major differences between the bills. Your position seems to be that Motorweek and Top Gear are the same because they're both shows about cars.

 

[dank69]

Did you read the part from politifact's analysis?



These are major differences between the bills. Your position seems to be that Motorweek and Top Gear are the same because they're both shows about cars.

Classifying those as "major differences" is retarded. First of all, the first two "differences" are additions, as in, they don't change any part of the original, they just add to it. The last one could also be classified as an addition, since it merely expanded the original requirement.

 

[nageov3t]

I'll never understand why Democrats bring up the fact that ACA/Obamacare originated in a Republican think tank.

that's more of a reason to criticize it, not less.

 

[TerryMathews]

Classifying those as "major differences" is retarded. First of all, the first two "differences" are additions, as in, they don't change any part of the original, they just add to it. The last one could also be classified as an addition, since it merely expanded the original requirement.

I personally view tort reform as a major difference. Do you not agree that malpractice lawsuits and the related insurances are one of the large drivers of increasing health care expenses?

ETA: or did you fail to read it correctly? Chaffee bill had tort reform, Obamacare does not. That would be a subtraction, not an addition.

 

[TerryMathews]

I'll never understand why Democrats bring up the fact that ACA/Obamacare originated in a Republican think tank.

that's more of a reason to criticize it, not less.

Simple. They don't want to own it when it fails.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I'll never understand why Democrats bring up the fact that ACA/Obamacare originated in a Republican think tank.

that's more of a reason to criticize it, not less.

I can only think of two possiblities why the hacks here constantly reguritate this inane talking point:

1) The Republicans used to be for it and are now only against it because they're the party of "NO".
2) Or it's their way of saying ACA wasn't their stupid idea, it was actually the Republicans stupid idea in the first place!

From the horses mouth.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news...individual-mandate-reform-heritage/52951140/1

 

[dank69]

...

From the horses mouth.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news...individual-mandate-reform-heritage/52951140/1

Lol, as if giving a tax break for carrying insurance is different than applying a tax penalty if you don't. And the other "huge" difference is that they wanted everyone to get insurance, not for their own good, but for everyone else's own good. Therefore, not the same.

 

[TerryMathews]

Lol, as if giving a tax break for carrying insurance is different than applying a tax penalty if you don't. And the other "huge" difference is that they wanted everyone to get insurance, not for their own good, but for everyone else's own good. Therefore, not the same.

Tort reform?

 

[dank69]

I personally view tort reform as a major difference. Do you not agree that malpractice lawsuits and the related insurances are one of the large drivers of increasing health care expenses?

Many threads on this forum have discussed this subject and the evidence presented seems to indicate that tort reform would not make a significant change. Of course, significant is relative. The number I found after a quick google was ~54B over 10 years, which while it seems like a lot, compared to overall spending on healthcare it is not.

ETA: or did you fail to read it correctly? Chaffee bill had tort reform, Obamacare does not. That would be a subtraction, not an addition.

I didn't read it, I read your quote. For some reason I was thinking that Obamacare did include tort reform, but it does not. So yes, that would be a subtraction. I still think using that as justification as to why the two are different is a huge stretch. Tort reform is a separate issue IMO and you don't need one in order to have the other.

 

[dank69]

I'll never understand why Democrats bring up the fact that ACA/Obamacare originated in a Republican think tank.

that's more of a reason to criticize it, not less.

It's not used as a reason to avoid criticism of Obamacare. It is a criticism of Republicans.

 

[TerryMathews]

Many threads on this forum have discussed this subject and the evidence presented seems to indicate that tort reform would not make a significant change. Of course, significant is relative. The number I found after a quick google was ~54B over 10 years, which while it seems like a lot, compared to overall spending on healthcare it is not.



I didn't read it, I read your quote. For some reason I was thinking that Obamacare did include tort reform, but it does not. So yes, that would be a subtraction. I still think using that as justification as to why the two are different is a huge stretch. Tort reform is a separate issue IMO and you don't need one in order to have the other.

Regardless of your feelings about tort reform, it is a significant difference. Especially when you consider that the bill is named the "Affordable Care Act" yet it doesnt include a feature from the bill it is "supposedly" based off of that would have actually made health care more affordable.

And yet you talk about me making a huge stretch.

 

[dank69]

Regardless of your feelings about tort reform, it is a significant difference. Especially when you consider that the bill is named the "Affordable Care Act" yet it doesnt include a feature from the bill it is "supposedly" based off of that would have actually made health care more affordable.

And yet you talk about me making a huge stretch.

The argument is that Obamacare is based on the plan from the Heritage Foundation, not that the two plans are identical. So far you've proved that the two are not identical. Congrats. Oh, tort reform removed, medicaid expanded, employers not only required to offer insurance but also required to help pay for it, TOTALLY DIFFERENT. I bought a new car and riced it up. It is now no longer based on the original car. Makes perfect conservative sense.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Lol, as if giving a tax break for carrying insurance is different than applying a tax penalty if you don't. And the other "huge" difference is that they wanted everyone to get insurance, not for their own good, but for everyone else's own good. Therefore, not the same.

The mandate is about the only similarity between the two, and even at that, the Heritage plan never supported a nonqualified mandate. The Heritage plan was radically different from ACA in most every way possible...it was limited to catastrophic coverage only, had minimal regulation of insurers, it greatly diminished the federal role in Medicaid (it did not expand it to historic levels), and it destroyed Medicare and replaced it with a voucher system. To say ACA is based on the Heritage Plan is a bald-faced lie. Don't be an idiot....or is this asking too much?

 

[TerryMathews]

The argument is that Obamacare is based on the plan from the Heritage Foundation, not that the two plans are identical. So far you've proved that the two are not identical. Congrats. Oh, tort reform removed, medicaid expanded, employers not only required to offer insurance but also required to help pay for it, TOTALLY DIFFERENT. I bought a new car and riced it up. It is now no longer based on the original car. Makes perfect conservative sense.

We should make a list of the things that are the same. I believe it would be shorter.

 

[dank69]

The mandate is about the only similarity between the two, and even at that, the Heritage plan never supported a nonqualified mandate. The Heritage plan was radically different from ACA in most every way possible...it was limited to catastrophic coverage only, had minimal regulation of insurers, it greatly diminished the federal role in Medicaid (it did not expand it to historic levels), and it destroyed Medicare and replaced it with a voucher system. To say ACA is based on the Heritage Plan is a bald-faced lie. Don't be an idiot....or is this asking too much?

The politifact link above explains why claiming that the ACA == Hertage plan is "half true" and not a "bald-faced lie." It is half true because it was based on the Heritage plan, but there are many differences. You guys just don't understand the concept of one thing being based on another thing. That doesn't mean there aren't changes. Now, what were you saying about being an idiot?

 

[dank69]

We should make a list of the things that are the same. I believe it would be shorter.

Of course you "believe that" without checking the evidence first. Form beliefs and then find evidence to back it up is the core skill required to be a conservative after all. Regardless, you could change 99% and still technically be based on the original.

 

[TerryMathews]

Of course you "believe that" without checking the evidence first. Form beliefs and then find evidence to back it up is the core skill required to be a conservative after all. Regardless, you could change 99% and still technically be based on the original.

So now we are at the Ship of Theseus, and the dishonesty train just keeps a rollin.

The bottom line is this is a law passed solely by Democrats who coopted a few ideas from a Heritage plan that was never even brought to a vote. There are significant structural differences between those two proposals.

This is President Obama's crowning achievement. Why are you so desperate to take it away from him?

(We both know its a crown of thorns...)

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

The politifact link above explains why claiming that the ACA == Hertage plan is "half true" and not a "bald-faced lie." It is half true because it was based on the Heritage plan, but there are many differences. You guys just don't understand the concept of one thing being based on another thing. That doesn't mean there aren't changes. Now, what were you saying about being an idiot?

Please list the similarities.

Also, please tell me why you want to believe that ACA was based on the Heritage Plan. Why is this particular meme so important to you?

 

[Zaap]

I can only think of two possiblities why the hacks here constantly reguritate this inane talking point:

The main reason: they're hacks.

 

[dank69]

So now we are at the Ship of Theseus, and the dishonesty train just keeps a rollin.

The bottom line is this is a law passed solely by Democrats who coopted a few ideas from a Heritage plan that was never even brought to a vote. There are significant structural differences between those two proposals.

This is President Obama's crowning achievement. Why are you so desperate to take it away from him?

(We both know its a crown of thorns...)

From your own link:

There were some significant differences but in a side-by-side comparison, the similarities dominate.

Keep pretending that all liberals believe Obama is perfect just because we refuse to believe all the lies coming from the right-wing.

Please list the similarities.

Also, please tell me why you want to believe that ACA was based on the Heritage Plan. Why is this particular meme so important to you?

See above. I wasn't the one who started the debate about whether or not the ACA was based on the Heritage's plan. I am just correcting the conservative lies.

 

[HomerJS]

Please list the similarities.

Also, please tell me why you want to believe that ACA was based on the Heritage Plan. Why is this particular meme so important to you?

The individual mandate is a direct lift from Heritage

 

[TerryMathews]

The individual mandate is a direct lift from Heritage

No.

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2013/12/the-aca-v-the-heritage-plan-a-comparison-in-chart-form

I'm struggling to find the link I'm really looking for, but if you sit down and read Chaffee bill and PPACA, both what you are required to carry and the enforcement mechanism are different.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

The individual mandate is a direct lift from Heritage

Nope...completely different mechanisms. What else do you think was a "direct lift" from the Heritage plan? And why is it important to you that Obamacare was based on the Heritage plan when it clearly was not? I don't get this. Can a liberal here that's reasonably objective please explain this to me?