Forza 3 Game Night. Bring it, part deux!

[Lotheron]

Hey, if you wanted to do a "Sports Cars" enduro with Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, Aston Martin, Corvette, Dodge Viper, etc I'd be all over it.

We need to get some input from others though.

I say we do either ALMS or WTCC type series.

 

[Hopeless]

Been runing more in career, doing A class weekend races.

I tried the 2010 Audi R8 5.2 FSI quattro & I really don't like this thingl. It runs good but it doesn't like to slow down & it's even worse than the exige when breaking while turning. I was going to buy better brakes but there aren't any. I did buy one of the lightweight options & put racing tires on it which helped some but still not all that great.

Finally gained a few more levels and got the 2009 Mercedes SL 65 AMG Black Series. I bought one of the lightweight options & put street tires on it. It handles & brakes a whole lot better than that Audi. It doesn't have quite as high of a speed rating but it's way nicer to drive. It still has a few points that I can play with for some more minor upgrades, just haven't decided what else I want to use.

 

[ivan2]

i have no problem running sports cars but you might be disappointed to know that in most cases everyone will be running lambos...

 

[Lotheron]

i have no problem running sports cars but you might be disappointed to know that in most cases everyone will be running lambos...

I for one would run something else just to prove something else can be ran

 

[Kabob]

I say we do either ALMS or WTCC type series.

ALMS/LMS/FIA GT GT2 class (all pretty much the same cars) would get my vote.

Aston Martin DB9 Coupe
Audi R8/R8 5.2
BMW E46 M3/E92 M3/M3 GTR
Corvette C5 Z06/C6 Z06
Viper Competition Coupe/GTS ACR/SRT10 ACR
Ferrari 360/360CS/F430/458 Italia
Ford GT/Mustang GT
Lamborghini Gallardo/Gallardo Superleggera/Murcielago/Murcielago LP640
Lotus Exige Cup 240
Panoz Esperante GTLM
Porsche 996 GT3/997 GT3/997 GT3 RS
Saleen S281E

RWD only (swaps for the AWD cars)
No super/turbochargers
A600 - S650 PI start?

i have no problem running sports cars but you might be disappointed to know that in most cases everyone will be running lambos...

RWD only would hopefully rectify that.

 

[Lotheron]

[...]
RWD only (swaps for the AWD cars)
No super/turbochargers
A600 - S650 PI start?
[...]

I completely agree with all of these. NA FTW!

Should we have HP/Weight requirements as well?

 

[Kabob]

Yeah, HP/weight limits would probably be smart.

 

[ivan2]

RWD only would hopefully rectify that.

u have no idea... the no force induction part might actually rectify that, however, i run blown ferraris (2nd stage turbo on my 360CS) and blown lambo > blown ferrari. the other cars i will ever want to run on the list is 355C/360CS, i think I had a pretty good ford GT but i think the 360CS will beat it in capable hand (the thing has no wing).

 

[Supermercado]

You guys know way more about these cars than I do but the ALMS cars we're talking about here would get my vote, as well. RWD only and HP/weight limits to hopefully balance everything out as well as possible.

 

[Lotheron]

Yeah, HP/weight limits would probably be smart.

We could even drop a PI requirement if we specify all the rules within ranges such as:

RWD
No forced induction
Downforce limit (in lbs)
HP limit
Minimum Weight
Max tire Width
Tire tread compound

 

[Kabob]

u have no idea... the no force induction part might actually rectify that, however, i run blown ferraris (2nd stage turbo on my 360CS) and blown lambo > blown ferrari. the other cars i will ever want to run on the list is 355C/360CS, i think I had a pretty good ford GT but i think the 360CS will beat it in capable hand (the thing has no wing).

No force induction allowed, RWD only, hp cap/min weight limit. How would that work for balancing things out? It's never going to be completely even. We can add a mandatory Forza aero parts rule but we'd have to axe a few of the cars.

An idea...as good as changing the PI level based on you finish resetting your car/tune every week (for those of us who suck at tuning) is tough. I offer another idea.

Everyone starts and stays at, say, A600. No changing up or down for the season. Axe Qualifying.

Based on how you finished the previous week we start in reverse order with, say, a 3 second rolloff delay for the following race. So you finish 2nd on Week 1. On week 2 you start in 7th and 3 second rolloff delay between cars is going to even things out ALOT (as you've got to wait 21 seconds to start the race). I dunno, just an idea I had...plus as I mentioned I suck at tuning.

 

[Supermercado]

I think that's an idea worth looking at and testing, Ty. I can build a decent car for a track (sometimes) but I'm not good at tuning, either, and just rely on a calculator to do it for me. I'm 100% for limiting the cars so that they're as even as is possible, and would entertain Lotheron's idea of removing a PI restriction so long as it fits the specs. That might make it interesting when it comes to building cars for different tracks. It might makes things more flexible. The only possible issue that immediately comes to mind with the rolloff delay is that it's very "what have you done for me lately?" Which may or may not be a bad thing. I generally do okay but last season I was horrible at Tsukuba so the following week, under your possible plan, I'd start out front and have a good shot at gaining some points back. More so than probably a wimpy +5 PI would ever get me. I think we should start nailing down some requirements for a test race and see how it works.

 

[ivan2]

we have to come up with a weight/hp ratio cuz max HP will balance the other cars nicely but LP640 starts at 634HP or something with no restrictor plate available, similar case with lotus and minimal weight.

mandatory aero might kill the ferraris challenge cars

should we lock in cars at the beginning or allow to use different cars for the series?

 

[Lotheron]

We would definitely have to stick with the same car, although tuning would be ok I would think as long as rules are met.

HP/weight ratio might work, however, this means that cars will have a distinct advantage/disadvantage on different tracks.

 

[Kabob]

I dunno if I like having no PI cap, but I guess we can see how it works.

 

[Lotheron]

I dunno if I like having no PI cap, but I guess we can see how it works.

That's if you actually believe that every car with the same PI is equal to each other. It could end out if there were rules set that the cars could be closer..

It can be done either way though, I'm just saying it might be hard to reach or stay at a certain PI on some cars if there are limitations based separate from PI such as HP/Weight/Aero.

 

[Kabob]

I saw we do what we did last time, you can change your car ONCE up until the 2nd or 3rd race and then you're stuck with it. I also say you build your car and are then committed to the parts on said car. You can change your tune but no swapping out parts.

The Ferrari 360 CS has aero bits, the only ones on the list that I know do not are the Porsche 996 and 997 GT3's. The RS does though.

I know that not all cars are equal at equivilent PI's but I think that overall it's the "most fair" mark that we have (if you combine it with the other rules).

 

[Lotheron]

I saw we do what we did last time, you can change your car ONCE up until the 2nd or 3rd race and then you're stuck with it. I also say you build your car and are then committed to the parts on said car. You can change your tune but no swapping out parts.

The Ferrari 360 CS has aero bits, the only ones on the list that I know do not are the Porsche 996 and 997 GT3's. The RS does though.

I know that not all cars are equal at equivilent PI's but I think that overall it's the "most fair" mark that we have (if you combine it with the other rules).

A combination would probably be best.

 

[ivan2]

i believe certain cars have advantage on certain track is given and I am willing to accept that.

but the no PI limit will make things very complicated as we are going to have to go through every car and test it's limit on tire compound and width, very troublesome.

I will rather have a PI limit. I believe the problem with the PI limit system is between 4WD and RWD where in some extreme cases (like road america) people will drive sideways on the rumble strip and still go faster than the RWD, i have not yet seen an RWD car that has become as dominant as the S5 or 4WD LP640 or the Competizione 8C, although the gallardo is coming close to that.

Ty, the 360 CS have areo upgrade but i dont think it will need it at A600. if we are committed to both car and build then u dont need to have a rule for the wing, or even the engine/weight. IMO, i am not able to come in with a wingless lambo and run you over in both road american and tsuzuka, it won't work.

 

[Kabob]

Famous, the idea is that you'll have to build a car that you can use on all tracks with only a tune swap. It's not going to be a master of every track, just as in real racing you tweak what you've got. I think making a wing mandatory will balance things out.

Then (tentatively) lets make the rules, all of this is subject to change, just need a starting ground. I'd still love input from Waldo and blowfish as they were two big players in the FM2 enduro scene.

Specs: (tentative)
PI cap: A600
Min. Weight: 2500 lbs (does that eliminate the Lotus?)
Max HP: 550 HP (maybe too high)
Drivetrain: RWD only
Aspiration: No force induction
Aero: Front and rear Forza spoiler

Car selection: (tentative)
Aston Martin DB9 Coupe
Audi R8
Audi R8 5.2
BMW E46 M3
BMW E92 M3
BMW M3 GTR
Corvette C5 Z06
Corvette C6 Z06
Viper Competition Coupe
Viper GTS ACR
Viper SRT10 ACR
Ferrari 360 Modena
Ferrari 360CS
Ferrari F430
Ferrari 458 Italia
Ford GT
Ford Mustang GT
Jaguar XKR-S
Lamborghini Gallardo
Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera
Lamborghini Murcielago
Lamborghini Murcielago LP640
Lotus Exige Cup 240
Panoz Esperante GTLM
Porsche 996 GT3
Porsche 997 GT3
Porsche 997 GT3 RS
Saleen S281E

Anything I missed? Anything that needs to be added/removed? Want to thin the car list or add to it? I want to drop the max HP limit but doing so knocks off about half the cars...

 

[ivan2]

just the technicality, the comp coupe is running too high for A600, i believe the max HP will drop both of the murcielago off the list, which I am fine with.

honest i don't see much logic to mandate the use of the wing, since we are not all running the same car. some cars just don't need the wing for most of the tracks.

 

[Kabob]

Yeah, I know a few of the cars are going to be too high PI to fit the bill as it is.

As for the wing not all cars NEED it but it will balance things out a bit.

 

[Lotheron]

I think 2500 lbs is way too low. I think 550HP and 2500 lbs will put you into deep S class territory IIRC.

 

[Kabob]

I think 2500 lbs is way too low. I think 550HP and 2500 lbs will put you into deep S class territory IIRC.

Yeah, that's true. I didn't know what a realistic power/weight was, someone give us an idea when they get home.

 

[ivan2]

we have have PI limit of 600, i think the weight is fine, it might even be a bit high for anyone wants to run the lotus.