Former Russian Terrorist Tragedy Thread

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Klixxer
Nazi germany used racial profiling in an attempt to purify the aryan race, what can you use racial profiling for if you believe deep down that all races are equal?

I don't believe that proponents of racial profiling believe in inherent superiority or inferiority of people only due to race. I thought it was more due to social or cultural reasons as backed by statistics.

You are going to such extremes with a very big slippery slope where any sort of racial profiling is akin to racial purification.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Would you idiots like the Pope of Islam to make a speech condemning it?

Again, why do the 1.4 billion Muslims in the world need to apologize for the actions of a few terrorists?

Yeah, I don't understand what these people are asking for..every single Muslim in the entire world protesting against this? I'm sure that many leaders are against these auctions; they just don't make the news as much.

Thats exactly what I want.

you need to understand the importance of muslim religous leaders speaking out against these atrocities, if all this terrorist crap is done so in the name of religion, then these terrorists would begin to lose some of that 1.4 billion support.

as it stands now, I don't think that is the case. I think there are many muslims out there supporting this crap, I think that until you get the muslim leadership to publicly condemn these acts there will continue to be more muslims in support, rather than against these terrorists.

yes there needs to be speeches, LOTS of them. imho

And al-Jazeera needs to cover those speeches, which they now do not. If they existed, which they do not.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Would you idiots like the Pope of Islam to make a speech condemning it?

Again, why do the 1.4 billion Muslims in the world need to apologize for the actions of a few terrorists?

Yeah, I don't understand what these people are asking for..every single Muslim in the entire world protesting against this? I'm sure that many leaders are against these auctions; they just don't make the news as much.

Thats exactly what I want.

you need to understand the importance of muslim religous leaders speaking out against these atrocities, if all this terrorist crap is done so in the name of religion, then these terrorists would begin to lose some of that 1.4 billion support.

as it stands now, I don't think that is the case. I think there are many muslims out there supporting this crap, I think that until you get the muslim leadership to publicly condemn these acts there will continue to be more muslims in support, rather than against these terrorists.

yes there needs to be speeches, LOTS of them. imho

And al-Jazeera needs to cover those speeches, which they now do not. If they existed, which they do not.

exactly, and to joeschmoe muslim that makes this all perfectly acceptable in the fight against the infidel nations.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Would you idiots like the Pope of Islam to make a speech condemning it?

Again, why do the 1.4 billion Muslims in the world need to apologize for the actions of a few terrorists?

Yeah, I don't understand what these people are asking for..every single Muslim in the entire world protesting against this? I'm sure that many leaders are against these auctions; they just don't make the news as much.

Thats exactly what I want.

you need to understand the importance of muslim religous leaders speaking out against these atrocities, if all this terrorist crap is done so in the name of religion, then these terrorists would begin to lose some of that 1.4 billion support.

as it stands now, I don't think that is the case. I think there are many muslims out there supporting this crap, I think that until you get the muslim leadership to publicly condemn these acts there will continue to be more muslims in support, rather than against these terrorists.

yes there needs to be speeches, LOTS of them. imho

Why condemn their acts if you feel it has no connection to your religion? Do Christians think the IRA bombed and killed because God told them, or because they wanted freedom?

Religion isn't being suppressed in Chechnya, last time I checked.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Klixxer
Nazi germany used racial profiling in an attempt to purify the aryan race, what can you use racial profiling for if you believe deep down that all races are equal?

I don't believe that proponents of racial profiling believe in inherent superiority or inferiority of people only due to race. I thought it was more due to social or cultural reasons as backed by statistics.

You are going to such extremes with a very big slippery slope where any sort of racial profiling is akin to racial purification.

Ah, so it is so it can be used to label different ethnicities? I am sorry but i don't see a difference.

Obviously you haven't understood a word i have said so far, it is not a slippery slope, a racial profiling system will be used for WHAT? To strip arab-semites of some rights? To make sure they are more closely watched?

If you aren't going to use it to control people, what ARE you going to use it for? It is not about a fvcking slippery slope, it is what it is going to be used for from the start, not what it could be used for in a future slippery slope kind of way.

No, christ. I said that was what the NAZIS used it for, not what it would be used for today, i NEVER EVER said it was akin to racial purification, just that that what it WAS used for.

So, what is the racial profiling system meant to do in the US 2004?

I am against ALL racial profiling of ALL kinds, always have been and always will be, that is my stance.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Would you idiots like the Pope of Islam to make a speech condemning it?

Again, why do the 1.4 billion Muslims in the world need to apologize for the actions of a few terrorists?

Yeah, I don't understand what these people are asking for..every single Muslim in the entire world protesting against this? I'm sure that many leaders are against these auctions; they just don't make the news as much.

Thats exactly what I want.

you need to understand the importance of muslim religous leaders speaking out against these atrocities, if all this terrorist crap is done so in the name of religion, then these terrorists would begin to lose some of that 1.4 billion support.

as it stands now, I don't think that is the case. I think there are many muslims out there supporting this crap, I think that until you get the muslim leadership to publicly condemn these acts there will continue to be more muslims in support, rather than against these terrorists.

yes there needs to be speeches, LOTS of them. imho

Has the pope EVER condemned the IRA?

I want EVERY catholic to do what you want every muslim to do. Is that fair enough for you?

thats not what I want, read again.

And I cannot speak for what the Pope has condemned or not condemned regarding the IRA, I dont think you can either unless for some wierd reason you know for a fact he hasn't.

But what I can ask is this, what have we heard from Muslim nations regarding these latest attacks? Who is speaking out in opposition to the latest and greatest from our muslim faithful?

I haven't heard or seen anything yet.

You would think that a religion that is hell bent on not being associated with these fundamentalists would be all over the media claiming no part in this chaos, and denouncing the groups responsible.

Hasnt happened yet. But maybe we just aren't given that perspective here in the US (given the slant our media is feeding us these days)

IF there is some sort of Pope figure for the muslim faith, and IF I was that figure, I would be all over this course of action. I would be the first one denouncing these fundamentalists..

hasnt happened yet tho..

 

[CanOWorms]

I am against ALL racial profiling of ALL kinds, always have been and always will be, that is my stance.

That's a lie and you know it. Your ardent support for Slovenia's barbaric actions is proof enough that your stance is an imaginary one.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Klixxer
Ah, so it is so it can be used to label different ethnicities? I am sorry but i don't see a difference.

Obviously you haven't understood a word i have said so far, it is not a slippery slope, a racial profiling system will be used for WHAT? To strip arab-semites of some rights? To make sure they are more closely watched?

I'm not exactly a proponent for racial profiling so I wouldn't know what most people want it for...but I would guess it would be to prevent crime and such. I don't think any rights will really be stripped away. What rights are exactly being stripped away? I thought they would just place a little extra attention on whoever fits the profile for that specific area.

Why are you only talking about arab-semites? There is more to racial profiling than just this one focus area. If you're saying that racial profiling against only one group in only one focus area while nothing else is being done is wrong, then that's OK.

If you aren't going to use it to control people, what ARE you going to use it for? It is not about a fvcking slippery slope, it is what it is going to be used for from the start, not what it could be used for in a future slippery slope kind of way.

I would assume that it is to reduce crimes or catch criminals, not about genocide like you seem to suggest.

No, christ. I said that was what the NAZIS used it for, not what it would be used for today, i NEVER EVER said it was akin to racial purification, just that that what it WAS used for.

OK, but that doesn't mean that racial profiling is directly and only related to Nazi Germany.

By that same logic, Affirmative Action uses racial profiling and that isn't anything like a genocide.

So, what is the racial profiling system meant to do in the US 2004?

Probalby to reduce crime and catch criminals more effectively.

I am against ALL racial profiling of ALL kinds, always have been and always will be, that is my stance.

I would probably be against it as any situation that I would support is not going to be feasible in a flawed world.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Would you idiots like the Pope of Islam to make a speech condemning it?

Again, why do the 1.4 billion Muslims in the world need to apologize for the actions of a few terrorists?

Yeah, I don't understand what these people are asking for..every single Muslim in the entire world protesting against this? I'm sure that many leaders are against these auctions; they just don't make the news as much.

Thats exactly what I want.

you need to understand the importance of muslim religous leaders speaking out against these atrocities, if all this terrorist crap is done so in the name of religion, then these terrorists would begin to lose some of that 1.4 billion support.

as it stands now, I don't think that is the case. I think there are many muslims out there supporting this crap, I think that until you get the muslim leadership to publicly condemn these acts there will continue to be more muslims in support, rather than against these terrorists.

yes there needs to be speeches, LOTS of them. imho

Why condemn their acts if you feel it has no connection to your religion? Do Christians think the IRA bombed and killed because God told them, or because they wanted freedom?

Religion isn't being suppressed in Chechnya, last time I checked.

because last time I checked, western opinion of muslim religion is going down the tubes.

Ask France, Ask Russia.

So lets say the Muslim community does not wish to claim responsiblility for these fundamentalist because they feel that there is no assocation, thats BS. Look at all those people that were cheering and screaming ALLA IS GREAT back on 9/11

there is a connection to that religion and the actions of the fundamentalists...whether muslims accept that or not....

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Would you idiots like the Pope of Islam to make a speech condemning it?

Again, why do the 1.4 billion Muslims in the world need to apologize for the actions of a few terrorists?

Yeah, I don't understand what these people are asking for..every single Muslim in the entire world protesting against this? I'm sure that many leaders are against these auctions; they just don't make the news as much.

Thats exactly what I want.

you need to understand the importance of muslim religous leaders speaking out against these atrocities, if all this terrorist crap is done so in the name of religion, then these terrorists would begin to lose some of that 1.4 billion support.

as it stands now, I don't think that is the case. I think there are many muslims out there supporting this crap, I think that until you get the muslim leadership to publicly condemn these acts there will continue to be more muslims in support, rather than against these terrorists.

yes there needs to be speeches, LOTS of them. imho

Has the pope EVER condemned the IRA?

I want EVERY catholic to do what you want every muslim to do. Is that fair enough for you?

thats not what I want, read again.

And I cannot speak for what the Pope has condemned or not condemned regarding the IRA, I dont think you can either unless for some wierd reason you know for a fact he hasn't.

But what I can ask is this, what have we heard from Muslim nations regarding these latest attacks? Who is speaking out in opposition to the latest and greatest from our muslim faithful?

I haven't heard or seen anything yet.

You would think that a religion that is hell bent on not being associated with these fundamentalists would be all over the media claiming no part in this chaos, and denouncing the groups responsible.

Hasnt happened yet. But maybe we just aren't given that perspective here in the US (given the slant our media is feeding us these days)

IF there is some sort of Pope figure for the muslim faith, and IF I was that figure, I would be all over this course of action. I would be the first one denouncing these fundamentalists..

hasnt happened yet tho..

1. i know for a fact he hasn't, neither has ANY prominent member of the catholic church.

You are trying so hard to claim that muslims are somehow responsible for other muslims actions, well guess WHAT, they are NOT, not any more than all catholics are responsible for the actions of the IRA, i have NEVER heard any outrage from ANYONE on this board regarding that.

Muslims are individuals, just like catholics are individuals, judge them as individuals, not as a whole.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Would you idiots like the Pope of Islam to make a speech condemning it?

Again, why do the 1.4 billion Muslims in the world need to apologize for the actions of a few terrorists?

Yeah, I don't understand what these people are asking for..every single Muslim in the entire world protesting against this? I'm sure that many leaders are against these auctions; they just don't make the news as much.

Thats exactly what I want.

you need to understand the importance of muslim religous leaders speaking out against these atrocities, if all this terrorist crap is done so in the name of religion, then these terrorists would begin to lose some of that 1.4 billion support.

as it stands now, I don't think that is the case. I think there are many muslims out there supporting this crap, I think that until you get the muslim leadership to publicly condemn these acts there will continue to be more muslims in support, rather than against these terrorists.

yes there needs to be speeches, LOTS of them. imho

Why condemn their acts if you feel it has no connection to your religion? Do Christians think the IRA bombed and killed because God told them, or because they wanted freedom?

Religion isn't being suppressed in Chechnya, last time I checked.

because last time I checked, western opinion of muslim religion is going down the tubes.

Ask France, Ask Russia.

So lets say the Muslim community does not wish to claim responsiblility for these fundamentalist because they feel that there is no assocation, thats BS. Look at all those people that were cheering and screaming ALLA IS GREAT back on 9/11

there is a connection to that religion and the actions of the fundamentalists...whether muslims accept that or not....

You think Russia cares if they are muslim, catholics, protestants or jews? trust me, they don't.

Fundamentalists of all religions should hold hands and fly kites in a thunderstorm, that would solve the ENTIRE problem, not just the problem with the muslims.

But oh, eh, then the US wouldn't have a president anymore so. hmmm.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Klixxer
1. i know for a fact he hasn't, neither has ANY prominent member of the catholic church.

Are you sure?

The Pope in a speech with an appeal to the IRA:

On my knees I beg you to turn away from the paths of violence and to return to the ways of peace....Violence only delays the day of justice....Further violence in Ireland will only drag down to ruin the land you claim to love and the values you claim to cherish. In the name of God I beg you....

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Klixxer
Ah, so it is so it can be used to label different ethnicities? I am sorry but i don't see a difference.

Obviously you haven't understood a word i have said so far, it is not a slippery slope, a racial profiling system will be used for WHAT? To strip arab-semites of some rights? To make sure they are more closely watched?

I'm not exactly a proponent for racial profiling so I wouldn't know what most people want it for...but I would guess it would be to prevent crime and such. I don't think any rights will really be stripped away. What rights are exactly being stripped away? I thought they would just place a little extra attention on whoever fits the profile for that specific area.

Why are you only talking about arab-semites? There is more to racial profiling than just this one focus area. If you're saying that racial profiling against only one group in only one focus area while nothing else is being done is wrong, then that's OK.

If you aren't going to use it to control people, what ARE you going to use it for? It is not about a fvcking slippery slope, it is what it is going to be used for from the start, not what it could be used for in a future slippery slope kind of way.

I would assume that it is to reduce crimes or catch criminals, not about genocide like you seem to suggest.

No, christ. I said that was what the NAZIS used it for, not what it would be used for today, i NEVER EVER said it was akin to racial purification, just that that what it WAS used for.

OK, but that doesn't mean that racial profiling is directly and only related to Nazi Germany.

By that same logic, Affirmative Action uses racial profiling and that isn't anything like a genocide.

So, what is the racial profiling system meant to do in the US 2004?

Probalby to reduce crime and catch criminals more effectively.

I am against ALL racial profiling of ALL kinds, always have been and always will be, that is my stance.

I would probably be against it as any situation that I would support is not going to be feasible in a flawed world.

No, no, no, no, no sweeping generalizations, how is it going to affect different races effectively? Isn't it about criminals of ALL races being caught and not just from some races? Are there no non-semitic fundamentalist muslims?

Chances are they would crash the next plane while long time respected Semite muslims would be held and questioned.

Kinda like if you want to sneak up on someone in the dark, you do not dress in white. The system can't be used for anything but to target specific groups because of race.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Klixxer
1. i know for a fact he hasn't, neither has ANY prominent member of the catholic church.

Are you sure?

The Pope in a speech with an appeal to the IRA:

On my knees I beg you to turn away from the paths of violence and to return to the ways of peace....Violence only delays the day of justice....Further violence in Ireland will only drag down to ruin the land you claim to love and the values you claim to cherish. In the name of God I beg you....

but but... it's a fact!

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Klixxer
1. i know for a fact he hasn't, neither has ANY prominent member of the catholic church.

Are you sure?

The Pope in a speech with an appeal to the IRA:

On my knees I beg you to turn away from the paths of violence and to return to the ways of peace....Violence only delays the day of justice....Further violence in Ireland will only drag down to ruin the land you claim to love and the values you claim to cherish. In the name of God I beg you....

Sometimes i should keep my big mouth shut it seems, i haven't seen this, ever, i looked but didn't find it.

Link?

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Klixxer
No, no, no, no, no sweeping generalizations, how is it going to affect different races effectively? Isn't it about criminals of ALL races being caught and not just from some races? Are there no non-semitic fundamentalist muslims?

Chances are they would crash the next plane while long time respected Semite muslims would be held and questioned.

Kinda like if you want to sneak up on someone in the dark, you do not dress in white. The system can't be used for anything but to target specific groups because of race.

Yes, I would guess that it's about criminals of all races being caught and the chances of the criminal's race/ethnicity/culture/whatever to increase the chance of the capture. You seem to be hung up on thinking that racial profiling can only be related to Muslims. Why? Again, if you're trying to say that only having one racial profiling against only one type of people (many if not most of which that will be profiled as it is right now probably aren't even semite-Muslim) then I agree with you. However, you seem to believe that racial profiling can only target semite-Muslims. I disagree. If there was to be racial profiling done, then I would also want them to evaluate all situations that aren't even related to terrorism.

There are non-semitic fundamentalist Muslims, but that doesn't mean that they should not go through any stringent security measure either, just like any other person.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Klixxer
1. i know for a fact he hasn't, neither has ANY prominent member of the catholic church.

Are you sure?

The Pope in a speech with an appeal to the IRA:

On my knees I beg you to turn away from the paths of violence and to return to the ways of peace....Violence only delays the day of justice....Further violence in Ireland will only drag down to ruin the land you claim to love and the values you claim to cherish. In the name of God I beg you....

Sometimes i should keep my big mouth shut it seems, i haven't seen this, ever, i looked but didn't find it.

Link?

You obviously did not search very well. A simple Google search would result in the Pope as well as other Catholic officials asking to stop the violence.

http://www.americancatholic.or...lII/2-Ireland-1979.asp

A better BBC artile:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisda...id_3926000/3926755.stm

He was loudly applauded at Drogheda when he said, in a direct address to the consciences of both terrorists and politicians: "I appeal to you in language of passionate pleading.

"On my knees I beg you to turn away from the paths of violence and return to the ways of peace."

He continued: "To Catholics, to Protestants, my message is peace and love. May no Irish Protestant think the Pope is an enemy, a danger or a threat."

He also called on Ireland's youth not to engage in violence: "I appeal to young people who may have become caught up in organisations engaged in violence.

"I say to you, with all the love I have for you, with all the trust I have in young people: Do not listen to voices which speak the language of hatred, revenge, retaliation."

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Klixxer
No, no, no, no, no sweeping generalizations, how is it going to affect different races effectively? Isn't it about criminals of ALL races being caught and not just from some races? Are there no non-semitic fundamentalist muslims?

Chances are they would crash the next plane while long time respected Semite muslims would be held and questioned.

Kinda like if you want to sneak up on someone in the dark, you do not dress in white. The system can't be used for anything but to target specific groups because of race.

Yes, I would guess that it's about criminals of all races being caught and the chances of the criminal's race/ethnicity/culture/whatever to increase the chance of the capture. You seem to be hung up on thinking that racial profiling can only be related to Muslims. Why? Again, if you're trying to say that only having one racial profiling against only one type of people (many if not most of which that will be profiled as it is right now probably aren't even semite-Muslim) then I agree with you. However, you seem to believe that racial profiling can only target semite-Muslims. I disagree. If there was to be racial profiling done, then I would also want them to evaluate all situations that aren't even related to terrorism.

There are non-semitic fundamentalist Muslims, but that doesn't mean that they should not go through any stringent security measure either, just like any other person.

Why? ummm, because it is being used that way today, that is why.

Racial profiling IS a fact in the US and has been for several years now, let's not beat around the bush (pun not intended) about that fact.

I base it on the present facts, nothing more, nothing less.

So if you are going to use racial profiling but treat everyone equally, then tell me, what IS the point of racial profiling?

And no sweepeing generalizations, i want an exact use and an explanation how you figure it would be of any use if everyone shall be treated equally.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Klixxer
Why? ummm, because it is being used that way today, that is why.

Racial profiling IS a fact in the US and has been for several years now, let's not beat around the bush (pun not intended) about that fact.

I base it on the present facts, nothing more, nothing less.

So if you are going to use racial profiling but treat everyone equally, then tell me, what IS the point of racial profiling?

And no sweepeing generalizations, i want an exact use and an explanation how you figure it would be of any use if everyone shall be treated equally.

Racial profiling is a fact in much of the world, US and Europe included. It has been like this forever, since the beginning of mankind..so why are you acting as if it can only be directed at only one group of people?

Read more carefully. Everyone's rights will be treated equally, but depending on the situation and the statistics, you would look at certain people a little more closely.

You seem to think that only one kind of person can be targetted in any racial profiling program. You're wrong.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Klixxer
1. i know for a fact he hasn't, neither has ANY prominent member of the catholic church.

Are you sure?

The Pope in a speech with an appeal to the IRA:

On my knees I beg you to turn away from the paths of violence and to return to the ways of peace....Violence only delays the day of justice....Further violence in Ireland will only drag down to ruin the land you claim to love and the values you claim to cherish. In the name of God I beg you....

Sometimes i should keep my big mouth shut it seems, i haven't seen this, ever, i looked but didn't find it.

Link?

You obviously did not search very well. A simple Google search would result in the Pope as well as other Catholic officials asking to stop the violence.

http://www.americancatholic.or...lII/2-Ireland-1979.asp

A better BBC artile:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisda...id_3926000/3926755.stm

He was loudly applauded at Drogheda when he said, in a direct address to the consciences of both terrorists and politicians: "I appeal to you in language of passionate pleading.

"On my knees I beg you to turn away from the paths of violence and return to the ways of peace."

He continued: "To Catholics, to Protestants, my message is peace and love. May no Irish Protestant think the Pope is an enemy, a danger or a threat."

He also called on Ireland's youth not to engage in violence: "I appeal to young people who may have become caught up in organisations engaged in violence.

"I say to you, with all the love I have for you, with all the trust I have in young people: Do not listen to voices which speak the language of hatred, revenge, retaliation."

No, apparantly i didn't, i have an apology to make about that.

OrByte, i am sorry, i didn't know this and i sincerely apologize.

OTOH, you can surely find prominent members of the Muslim church who condemn the muslim acts of terror too.

That is NO excuse though. I was wrong and i apologize for going into the debate without getting my facts straight.

Props to RabidMongoose for checking it out better than i did.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

I am against ALL racial profiling of ALL kinds, always have been and always will be, that is my stance.

That's a lie and you know it. Your ardent support for Slovenia's barbaric actions is proof enough that your stance is an imaginary one.

This is another good point. It seems that some people pick and choose when they will apply their views. How is this any different?

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Would you idiots like the Pope of Islam to make a speech condemning it?

Again, why do the 1.4 billion Muslims in the world need to apologize for the actions of a few terrorists?

Yeah, I don't understand what these people are asking for..every single Muslim in the entire world protesting against this? I'm sure that many leaders are against these auctions; they just don't make the news as much.

Thats exactly what I want.

you need to understand the importance of muslim religous leaders speaking out against these atrocities, if all this terrorist crap is done so in the name of religion, then these terrorists would begin to lose some of that 1.4 billion support.

as it stands now, I don't think that is the case. I think there are many muslims out there supporting this crap, I think that until you get the muslim leadership to publicly condemn these acts there will continue to be more muslims in support, rather than against these terrorists.

yes there needs to be speeches, LOTS of them. imho

Why condemn their acts if you feel it has no connection to your religion? Do Christians think the IRA bombed and killed because God told them, or because they wanted freedom?

Religion isn't being suppressed in Chechnya, last time I checked.

because last time I checked, western opinion of muslim religion is going down the tubes.

Ask France, Ask Russia.

So lets say the Muslim community does not wish to claim responsiblility for these fundamentalist because they feel that there is no assocation, thats BS. Look at all those people that were cheering and screaming ALLA IS GREAT back on 9/11

there is a connection to that religion and the actions of the fundamentalists...whether muslims accept that or not....

You think Russia cares if they are muslim, catholics, protestants or jews? trust me, they don't.

Fundamentalists of all religions should hold hands and fly kites in a thunderstorm, that would solve the ENTIRE problem, not just the problem with the muslims.

But oh, eh, then the US wouldn't have a president anymore so. hmmm.

you are absolutely right, I am sure that at the moment, Russia only cares for the 100-200 boys and girls that are lying dead in the middle of a school yard. Which is rightly so...

as for the rest of western civilization, I can only voice my concerns that this kind of stuff is going to find its way into our borders... unless someone gets a handle on these groups.

Seems only reasonable that the Muslim community steps up to the plate and start cutting these characters off...in every way imaginable.

again, whether or not muslims LEADERSHIP accepts responsibility is entirely up to them, but Muslim LEADERSHIP should be aware of the costs of not doing anything as a result of the chaos these groups are making.

And if you are muslim thats great, Allah be with you....but the leaders of Muslim nations need to think long and hard as to who and what they are trying to protect. The rest of the world is watching.

edit* kinda sucks when those facts don't work out for ya eh? apology accepted dude :beer:

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Klixxer
No, apparantly i didn't, i have an apology to make about that.

OrByte, i am sorry, i didn't know this and i sincerely apologize.

OTOH, you can surely find prominent members of the Muslim church who condemn the muslim acts of terror too.

That is NO excuse though. I was wrong and i apologize for going into the debate without getting my facts straight.

Props to RabidMongoose for checking it out better than i did.

Thanks, but ...he Pope saying anything is not really completely analogous to Islam, IMO. There is no key central leader for Muslims. I'm sure that there are other Muslim leaders out there that speak against violence...and some of the leaders are also governmental leaders so that makes it a little strange.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Klixxer
Why? ummm, because it is being used that way today, that is why.

Racial profiling IS a fact in the US and has been for several years now, let's not beat around the bush (pun not intended) about that fact.

I base it on the present facts, nothing more, nothing less.

So if you are going to use racial profiling but treat everyone equally, then tell me, what IS the point of racial profiling?

And no sweepeing generalizations, i want an exact use and an explanation how you figure it would be of any use if everyone shall be treated equally.

Racial profiling is a fact in much of the world, US and Europe included. It has been like this forever, since the beginning of mankind..so why are you acting as if it can only be directed at only one group of people?

Read more carefully. Everyone's rights will be treated equally, but depending on the situation and the statistics, you would look at certain people a little more closely.

You seem to think that only one kind of person can be targetted in any racial profiling program. You're wrong.

Ahh, their rights will be infringed upon, but they will not be treated equally in real life, is that it? Isn't that exactly how it is today?

No, i don't think that only one kind of person can be targetted, but tell me, am i wrong when i say that a Semitic Muslim is more likely to be searched and held than a WASP in LAX?

I still don't get it, if everyone is to be searched equally often, equally treated in all ways, WHAT is the purpose of racial profiling?

Let's stick to todays reality. I am not saying only one race or one kind of person CAN be targetted, but honestly, if i am a Semitic Muslim and you are a WASP, racial profiling in action, who is more likely to have to get their entire luggage and personal belonging searched, you or me, honestly?

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Klixxer
Ahh, their rights will be infringed upon, but they will not be treated equally in real life, is that it? Isn't that exactly how it is today?

No, unless you think that right now everyone's rights are being infringed on. You're not making any sense.

No, i don't think that only one kind of person can be targetted, but tell me, am i wrong when i say that a Semitic Muslim is more likely to be searched and held than a WASP in LAX?

In terms of airport security, then yes. However, in terms of white collar crime or domestic murder then probably not.

I still don't get it, if everyone is to be searched equally often, equally treated in all ways, WHAT is the purpose of racial profiling?

No, some people will have a higher chance to be more carefully scrutinized.

Let's stick to todays reality. I am not saying only one race or one kind of person CAN be targetted, but honestly, if i am a Semitic Muslim and you are a WASP, racial profiling in action, who is more likely to have to get their entire luggage and personal belonging searched, you or me, honestly?

The Semitic Muslim. But then the WASP would be more likely to be targetted in, say, serial murder cases.