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Form Checks (5x5 routine)

T

Trey22

Diamond Member
Two of us started Stronglifts, and we wanted to get some form checks on squats and rows. I'm AR, buddy is HW.

AR Squat - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLTuPqAIl5k
- I think I need to go down a little lower to hit parallel/below parallel (morning workout, legs were tight). I'm also working keeping the bar in the low position.

HW Squat - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf0PQyi4kNU
- Depth seems good. Bar seems a little high on the shoulders?

AR Row - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtK0LlBWTg0
- Any advice?

HW Row - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUh--rPljM4
- One thing I see is arms flaring to the side so bar doesn't go straight up and down.

I'll be posting vids of deadlifts and presses later this week. Thanks in advance for the feedback.
 
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Your guys row techniques needs some work, but that's why Mehdi got rid of bent over rows and put in inverse rows instead.


Your guys backs are basically parallel when they should be closer to a 45 degree angle, you guys could really hurt your back that way.

For proper form checks look at bodybuilding.com and use their exercise database, they have DETAILED instructions and videos as to how to perform basically every exercise.
 
The issue with inverted rows is that they're harder to add weight to. But like rbsx said you're both way too far forward on the rows. And when you do rows the barbell should basically ride up your thigh to your waist line don't pull straight up to your chest/sternum.

Your squats aren't full squats, you want the crease at the top of your thighs to be at/below parallel. It's kind of hard to tell with the safety bar there but it looks high to me. As far as your buddy goes he gets good depth but he's no controlled enough, at the bottom his back doesn't stay in line and it seems like his chest it dipping, which will cause huge issues later on. I had an issue up till not long ago where I was dropping down instead of sitting my ass back, it looks like me may also be doing that. Again, it's not an issue with light weights but as you add weight it will hinder progress.
 
The form is fine for Pendlay Bent over rows, which do require the torso parallel to the ground.

Dropping down on the squat is basically olympic style... which is more or less what you would do if someone told you to squat to the ground and then stand back up. Olympic style is also usually high bar and below parallel in depth. The 5x5 program asks for the power lifting style where the bar is low on the back and you hinge at the hip and pretend like your trying to touch something below and slightly behind you with your ass.
 
WraithETC said:
Dropping down on the squat is basically olympic style... which is more or less what you would do if someone told you to squat to the ground and then stand back up.
Click to expand...

Didn't know that, it also makes it a hell of a lot harder. I recently switched to PL style and made tons of progress.
 
squats are horrific.
1) get proper squat shoes
2) put bar in the bar position below scapulas
3) reach just past parallel as opposed to half squatting
 
Yeah I just had the chance to look at the squats too, just awful, too fast, and just dipping, doesn't look like there is any contraction in the muscles in the back.
 
Edit: one more useful squat resource for both of you guys. Follow the drill in this Rippetoe video to learn about hip drive. Got into a full squat, have your friend push straight down (vertically) on your lower back, and then stand back up. If you can do so while remaining balanced, you should feel your glutes/hamstrings working MUCH more.

Trey22 said:
AR Squat - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLTuPqAIl5k
- I think I need to go down a little lower to hit parallel/below parallel (morning workout, legs were tight). I'm also working keeping the bar in the low position.
Click to expand...
Video angle isn't ideal, but it looks like you are stopping well short of parallel, doing a half squat. You want the crease of the hip to be below the knee as seen from the side. Have your friend watch you as you descend slowly into a squat, deeper and deeper, until he sees your hip drop below the knee. Only then stand back up. Repeat again and again until you've memorized the "feel" of a full depth squat. If you lack the flexibility to do so, try to get a little deeper each session. Work on goblet squats and the squat stretch too.

Also, it's again hard to tell from the video angle, but it looks like you may want to push your knees out - that is, away from each other - a lot more when squatting. Read more here. This will help with hip drive and depth.

Trey22 said:
HW Squat - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf0PQyi4kNU
- Depth seems good. Bar seems a little high on the shoulders?
Click to expand...
If he's trying to do low bar back squats, the bar definitely looks high.

He's also rocking forward onto his toes: watch the heels of the sneakers come up every rep, especially towards the end of the set. You want to be totally flat footed, even biased towards having the weight on the heels. Curling the toes up can be a good way to learn this.

Finally, his feet seem to be pointed forward. You want to turn them out ~30 degrees and then push the knees out so the femur tracks directly over the feet as seen from above.

Trey22 said:
AR Row - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtK0LlBWTg0
- Any advice?
Click to expand...
Have your friend yell "chest up!" at you. Your back is not locked out into full extension. This can lead to injury at heavy weights; it also is preventing you from really engaging the lats/traps/rhomboids for a powerful pull. Dan John has some great mental queues for learning to make a "big chest" to get your back locked out.

Trey22 said:
HW Row - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUh--rPljM4
- One thing I see is arms flaring to the side so bar doesn't go straight up and down.
Click to expand...
Arm position is a bit weird. This will probably fix itself when the weight gets heavier.
 
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I've read Starting Strength and watched squat vids, but something still didn't feel right. It's like the motion in my head wasn't translating into what my body was doing.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback, the more brutal the better, we want to do things right.

Will make some adjustments and post new vids later in the week. HIP DRIVE!
 
RbSX said:
Your guys row techniques needs some work, but that's why Mehdi got rid of bent over rows and put in inverse rows instead.


Your guys backs are basically parallel when they should be closer to a 45 degree angle, you guys could really hurt your back that way.

For proper form checks look at bodybuilding.com and use their exercise database, they have DETAILED instructions and videos as to how to perform basically every exercise.
Click to expand...

That's not what mehdi says. He says parallel and that 45 dergees can do things like tear up your biceps. I jsut read the entire pdf file he provides you. It is pretty clear that his program says to do bent over barbell rows. This was about 1 week ago.
 
Regarding this (squats):

Finally, his feet seem to be pointed forward. You want to turn them out ~30 degrees and then push the knees out so the femur tracks directly over the feet as seen from above.

I was skimming Starting Strength prior to actually reading it and I saw this diagram. What was not clear is what hte angle was. Is that the angle relative to an imaginary center line or is that the angle of the left foot relative to the right foot?
 
IHateMyJob2004 said:
That's not what mehdi says. He says parallel and that 45 dergees can do things like tear up your biceps. I jsut read the entire pdf file he provides you. It is pretty clear that his program says to do bent over barbell rows. This was about 1 week ago.
Click to expand...

First things first, while Medhi's program is alright, a lot of what he says is bullshit that you have to toss out the window.

Secondly, that would be in direct contradiction to basically every diagram and video I've ever seen. 45 degrees might be too much, but you certainly shouldn't be parallel. That's just asking to hurt your back at higher weights.
 
RbSX said:
First things first, while Medhi's program is alright, a lot of what he says is bullshit that you have to toss out the window.

Secondly, that would be in direct contradiction to basically every diagram and video I've ever seen. 45 degrees might be too much, but you certainly shouldn't be parallel. That's just asking to hurt your back at higher weights.
Click to expand...

Upright rowing requires good form. Mehdi says to stop and lower the weight amount if you can't do it right.

All I am saying is that Mehdi's program from what I have read says to do parallel to ground bent over rows. That's all I was saying. I wasn't saying it was right or wrong.

45 degrees might be OK. I think what he was saying to avoid was some other sort of row named after a bodybuilder. That was more like 70 degrees upright though from what I could tell.

I'll have to read up on it more.
 
I've never stacked weights to set the bar down on for the rows. Is this a common thing? Should I not be lowering the bar to the floor in between reps?
 
IHateMyJob2004 said:
Upright rowing requires good form. Mehdi says to stop and lower the weight amount if you can't do it right.

All I am saying is that Mehdi's program from what I have read says to do parallel to ground bent over rows. That's all I was saying. I wasn't saying it was right or wrong.

45 degrees might be OK. I think what he was saying to avoid was some other sort of row named after a bodybuilder. That was more like 70 degrees upright though from what I could tell.

I'll have to read up on it more.
Click to expand...

Actually Medhi tossed bent over rows completely in exchange for inverse rows 🙂
 
Pantlegz1 said:
Strong Lifts is typically considered a bastardized version of Starting Strength. I'm also partial to Madcow 5x5, intermediate anyway.
Click to expand...

Strong Lifts is a novice prorgam by it's own admission.

I think the point of it is to get people on a simple program that builds mass just to show the benefits of compound exercises. Once you platau wtih Strong Lifts, they recomond that you move onto someting like Madcow.

I view it as the couch2-5K prgram for weights. Both are novice programs but it teaches you alot of the fundamentals that most get wrong.
 
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RbSX said:
Actually Medhi tossed bent over rows completely in exchange for inverse rows 🙂
Click to expand...

Not a bad alternative.

Maybe Mehdi does say this but he needs to make some big changes to his site if this is true. Everything he says about getting started says upright row, upright row, upright row. This includes the 200 page PDF gettting started guide.
 
Trey22 said:
Two of us started Stronglifts, and we wanted to get some form checks on squats and rows. I'm AR, buddy is HW.

AR Squat - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLTuPqAIl5k
- I think I need to go down a little lower to hit parallel/below parallel (morning workout, legs were tight). I'm also working keeping the bar in the low position.

HW Squat - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf0PQyi4kNU
- Depth seems good. Bar seems a little high on the shoulders?

AR Row - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtK0LlBWTg0
- Any advice?

HW Row - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUh--rPljM4
- One thing I see is arms flaring to the side so bar doesn't go straight up and down.

I'll be posting vids of deadlifts and presses later this week. Thanks in advance for the feedback.
Click to expand...

ar's squat looks good, imo... not much to critique except to check angle of the feet and squeeze glutes tight on the way up.

both rows weren't that great, but hw's was much better than ar's.
 
why do anything but the actualy starting strength program? who the fuck is medhi and why should I care? I've had personal success and many people have with SS and IMO is the most superior program to use. Buy SS and Practical Programming and you have YEARS of training advice in those books. Don't really have to worry about anything else.

ss --> texas method --> etc etc. its all in the books and will get you strong and jacked as fuck if you apply it properly.
 
coreyb said:
why do anything but the actualy starting strength program? who the fuck is medhi and why should I care? I've had personal success and many people have with SS and IMO is the most superior program to use. Buy SS and Practical Programming and you have YEARS of training advice in those books. Don't really have to worry about anything else.

ss --> texas method --> etc etc. its all in the books and will get you strong and jacked as fuck if you apply it properly.
Click to expand...

Mehdi's 5x5 Stronglifts is a derivative of Starting Strength but specifically targeted to new lifters.
 
coreyb said:
why do anything but the actualy starting strength program? who the fuck is medhi and why should I care? I've had personal success and many people have with SS and IMO is the most superior program to use. Buy SS and Practical Programming and you have YEARS of training advice in those books. Don't really have to worry about anything else.

ss --> texas method --> etc etc. its all in the books and will get you strong and jacked as fuck if you apply it properly.
Click to expand...

Mehdi is the guy who started the strong lifts web site. It is an entry level program to get people into weight lifting .... properly. He advocates moving on to other programs. Strong Lifts is a novice program.

EDIT: I see RSBX chimed in with teh same basic comment. Mehdi refers to it as a 13 week prorgam.
 
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