DivideBYZero
Lifer
- May 18, 2001
- 24,117
- 2
- 0
I'd love one, except for the Chav styling
I would imagine the ST220 Mondeo would be quite fun. My dad's 2.0 TDCi Mondeo flies - ~330 ft-lbs of torque.
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
They'd better start focusing on building quality vehicles that Americans like, which compete in the global market place price wise, or they are facing imminent doom.
If the products, marketing and price were up to par, they would not be in the predicament. That goes, union or no union. The markup the factory charges to the dealer is more than what the dealer makes on the vehicle when they sell it. I believe if they could produce the proper quality vehicle, with desirable models, they could cut the unions out, still pay the workers well, and pick up mass volumes of sales. Unfortunately, now it's slipped so far, it's going to be quite the task to earn the confidence of the American buyer back.
It is an embarrasment.
GM is doing it.
HHR is a HUGE seller. absolutely HUGE. and its selling with NO rebates.
and then you have Solstice/Sky (small market though, but selling strong)
the new Tahoe will sell huge. absolutely .
Lucerne will catch on and be pretty good.
I don't see big SUV's making a recovery anytime soon, especially if the gas prices continue to rise.
The people buying SUV's can afford the gas.
Does anyone think it would be wise for both GM and Ford to somehow join into one company and try to help one another out rather than both go down the tubes?
You can't really blame the current situation with the domestic car companies on any one group or cause. The problem is a combination of factors such as higher labor cost, mismanagement, poor quality, market saturation etc.
Its hard to compete when your competitor has lower labor cost. He can put that extra money back into the vehicle, thus better quality.
Mismanagement? Well, we won't go there.
Poor quality? How many people have you ever heard say " I am getting rid of this POS Toyota for a Ford or a Chevy?"
Market saturation. Why is there a Ford or Chevy dealership in every podunk sub 3000 pop. town? That is a lot of regional inter-brand completion than adds fuel to the fire.
Basically, If the domestics follow their competitors business model, the may have a chance.
Its hard to compete when your competitor has lower labor cost. He can put that extra money back into the vehicle, thus better quality.
Mismanagement? Well, we won't go there.
Poor quality? How many people have you ever heard say " I am getting rid of this POS Toyota for a Ford or a Chevy?"
Market saturation. Why is there a Ford or Chevy dealership in every podunk sub 3000 pop. town? That is a lot of regional inter-brand completion than adds fuel to the fire.
Basically, If the domestics follow their competitors business model, the may have a chance.
MasterAndCommander
Diamond Member
- Feb 1, 2004
- 3,656
- 0
- 71
and Ford stock (F) goes up 8% in the morning! likely from the positive earnings report rather than cutting 30K jobs
Nightfall
Golden Member
- Nov 16, 1999
- 1,769
- 0
- 0
Listening to CEO Bill Ford press confrence...
not ONCE did he mention QUALITY!
Ford is doomed.
P.S Well, he did say the word "quality", once... describing what Ford already is???
not ONCE did he mention QUALITY!
Ford is doomed.
P.S Well, he did say the word "quality", once... describing what Ford already is???
Ford is invested heavily in vehicles, large trucks and SUVs, that were selling well eight months ago. The price of gas is up and people are not buying those kind of cars. If Ford sold a car as good as a Honda, in terms of quality, performance, and handling, I would buy one.
For the forum's US members who find Ford's situation "amusing", remember the US economy is interdependent. The fewer automobile workers employed or the less money they make the smaller the economic pie is for everyone.
For the forum's US members who find Ford's situation "amusing", remember the US economy is interdependent. The fewer automobile workers employed or the less money they make the smaller the economic pie is for everyone.
But once all of the jobs are moved out the U.S......who will there be left to buy or purchase all of the goods that are being made?
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
They'd better start focusing on building quality vehicles that Americans like, which compete in the global market place price wise, or they are facing imminent doom.
If the products, marketing and price were up to par, they would not be in the predicament. That goes, union or no union. The markup the factory charges to the dealer is more than what the dealer makes on the vehicle when they sell it. I believe if they could produce the proper quality vehicle, with desirable models, they could cut the unions out, still pay the workers well, and pick up mass volumes of sales. Unfortunately, now it's slipped so far, it's going to be quite the task to earn the confidence of the American buyer back.
It is an embarrasment.
GM is doing it.
HHR is a HUGE seller. absolutely HUGE. and its selling with NO rebates.
and then you have Solstice/Sky (small market though, but selling strong)
the new Tahoe will sell huge. absolutely .
Lucerne will catch on and be pretty good.
I don't see big SUV's making a recovery anytime soon, especially if the gas prices continue to rise.
I have already talked to some GM salesmen on another forum. They is a Waiting list for the new Tahoe's.
NL5
Diamond Member
- Apr 28, 2003
- 3,286
- 12
- 81
It's odd you all blame the union for the downfall of ford, gm and the like.
Someone brought up germany - higher paid - stricter workplace laws, etc.
Toyota builds many of it's cars here. with employees paid just as well as gm and Ford, yet they sell a superior vehicle for less - how come?
Also, who the **** buys Ford trucks, GM cars etc - BLUE COLLAR AMERICA - guess what mother*****'s - Blue collar America is disappearing.
It's the end of an era - America is no longer going to be a manufacturing powerhouse.
Say goodbye to GM, Ford, etc........
PS - It doesn't help that the CEO of GM gets a Ginormous salary for getting his ass kicked by Toyota either........
Someone brought up germany - higher paid - stricter workplace laws, etc.
Toyota builds many of it's cars here. with employees paid just as well as gm and Ford, yet they sell a superior vehicle for less - how come?
Also, who the **** buys Ford trucks, GM cars etc - BLUE COLLAR AMERICA - guess what mother*****'s - Blue collar America is disappearing.
It's the end of an era - America is no longer going to be a manufacturing powerhouse.
Say goodbye to GM, Ford, etc........
PS - It doesn't help that the CEO of GM gets a Ginormous salary for getting his ass kicked by Toyota either........
Ford makes different cars in both Europe and Australia.....and they are much better cars than any of them sold here unfortunately. Much better designed and with better quality parts. Not sure why they don't want to sell any of them here. ??
Ford may have adopted the 40 hr work week but he was following suit and did not invent it.
"McGuire's sacrifices eased as the fortunes of the United Brotherhood Of Carpenters rose with escalating militancy of the American workforce in the 1880s. A general strike initiated and led by the carpenters' union for the eight-hour work day on May 1, 1886, began what proved to be one of the key political events of 1886, a year that historians refer to as "the great uprising of labor."
During the spring, McGuire temporarily suspended the regular business of the UBC as he criss-crossed the country speaking to countless audiences about the shorter hours movement. His efforts paid handsome dividends. More than 340,000 workers demonstrated for the reduced working day on May 1. In almost every city, carpenters led striking marchers. As a result, union carpenters won higher wages and/or decreased hours in 53 cities in 1886. Unorganized carpenters flocked to the activist organization as the Brotherhood's membership swelled to 21,423 by the end of the summer."
UBC
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
They'd better start focusing on building quality vehicles that Americans like, which compete in the global market place price wise, or they are facing imminent doom.
If the products, marketing and price were up to par, they would not be in the predicament. That goes, union or no union. The markup the factory charges to the dealer is more than what the dealer makes on the vehicle when they sell it. I believe if they could produce the proper quality vehicle, with desirable models, they could cut the unions out, still pay the workers well, and pick up mass volumes of sales. Unfortunately, now it's slipped so far, it's going to be quite the task to earn the confidence of the American buyer back.
It is an embarrasment.
GM is doing it.
HHR is a HUGE seller. absolutely HUGE. and its selling with NO rebates.
and then you have Solstice/Sky (small market though, but selling strong)
the new Tahoe will sell huge. absolutely .
Lucerne will catch on and be pretty good.
What's a HHR?
5 steps to profitability:
1) Declare Bankruptcy
2) Void Union Contract, Fire the Unions
3) Downsize workforce and hire non-Union employees
4) Invest $$ into QUALITY parts
5) Profit
1) Declare Bankruptcy
2) Void Union Contract, Fire the Unions
3) Downsize workforce and hire non-Union employees
4) Invest $$ into QUALITY parts
5) Profit
Why are you embarrased? It's not your company. Nor does the company represent America as a country, or you as a person.
What's disgraceful and embarrasing is the pieces of sh!t these companies pass off as vehicles.
NL5
Diamond Member
- Apr 28, 2003
- 3,286
- 12
- 81
Man, are you for real?
They could have FREE labor and they would still be failing.
Remember too, it was the jackass's running the company that SIGNED the union contract - or have we forgotten that part.
There is dwindling demand for their product. No matter what they do now, it is goiong to continue to dwindle. The ford/gm era is OVER. If the effin goverment helps postpone the inevitable - we should all be angry.......
You guys should check out CAR: Drama of the American Workplace by Mary Walton
It chronicles the development of the 1996 Ford Taurus, which was the successor to the wildly successful first generation Taurus that was released in 1989 (I think?).
The book really portrayed the beaucracy and cheapness that was inherent in Ford's management as well as insight into why they slid down that slippery slope of quality.
For example, while Japanese automakers have a very close & tight relationship with their suppliers, by having long term contracts with them and enforcing stringent quality requirements. But at the same time, they garanauteed that the supplier would be supplying them with parts for the entire generation of that particular model; so it would be worth their while to invest in better tooling, equipment, training, etc...since there would be a payoff in the long term.
Ford, and GM for that matter, chose a different route. They would try to get parts for the lowest cost, so they would let the supplies bid amongst themselves for contracts that would only last a year or two, and then try to get them to compete amongst themselves for a lower price bid.
Clearly this would result in cheaper quality for a few reasons, mainly, the suppliers aren't garaunteed to produce these parts for 5 years, so they saw no reason to invest into upgrading their toolings & machinery since they know they won't produce the parts in enough volume to drive down the costs & get a pay off on their investments. Also if they are only producing parts for a few years they won't have time to improve and refine their processes either, which result in better quality parts.
This is just a small, yet powerful, example of why Ford & others are in deep trouble simply because they looked at the short term financial gain over long term strategy. However, it looks like that is changing, which can only be a good thing.
It chronicles the development of the 1996 Ford Taurus, which was the successor to the wildly successful first generation Taurus that was released in 1989 (I think?).
The book really portrayed the beaucracy and cheapness that was inherent in Ford's management as well as insight into why they slid down that slippery slope of quality.
For example, while Japanese automakers have a very close & tight relationship with their suppliers, by having long term contracts with them and enforcing stringent quality requirements. But at the same time, they garanauteed that the supplier would be supplying them with parts for the entire generation of that particular model; so it would be worth their while to invest in better tooling, equipment, training, etc...since there would be a payoff in the long term.
Ford, and GM for that matter, chose a different route. They would try to get parts for the lowest cost, so they would let the supplies bid amongst themselves for contracts that would only last a year or two, and then try to get them to compete amongst themselves for a lower price bid.
Clearly this would result in cheaper quality for a few reasons, mainly, the suppliers aren't garaunteed to produce these parts for 5 years, so they saw no reason to invest into upgrading their toolings & machinery since they know they won't produce the parts in enough volume to drive down the costs & get a pay off on their investments. Also if they are only producing parts for a few years they won't have time to improve and refine their processes either, which result in better quality parts.
This is just a small, yet powerful, example of why Ford & others are in deep trouble simply because they looked at the short term financial gain over long term strategy. However, it looks like that is changing, which can only be a good thing.
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