Ford and GM @ All Time Lows

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: maziwanka
i thought their quality was improving recently - some of the cars look really nice (like the new malibu)

There quality has definitely improved...especially models introduced in the last 3 years. Both Ford and GM have continually done better in quality awards...especially on newer products. They are turning around...the question is if it is too late to ever regain the prominence both of them shared.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: Fritzo
We used to be the best at everything, then the Generation X'ers came along and rested on the accomplishments of the previous generation, and boom---here we are.

While I think Generation X has its problems (as do all 'generations'), and I may be a bit biased (apparently I'm generation X...or Y, depends who you ask I guess) I find it hard to swallow that all the countries problems are the fault of Generation X. And certainly, I reject the very idea that if any one generation is behind GM's failure to remain competitive...that Generation X would be the one to blame.

I'm interested as to why you feel that Generation X "rested on the accomplishments of the previous generation" and why they have had such a signifigant impact on the country in such a short amount of time which being a comparitively small demographic next to boomers. My opinion is this country is collectively obsessed with boomers problems as they are the largest voting demographic.

It's complicated, but I think it's an environment that the aging baby boomers created. The boomers when from free love to stocks and bonds, and in the 90's created an environment of excess for their children. Lavish luxuries became common place, and the Gen X'ers were put in a position where everything is handed to them because mom and dad can provide it.

When you're in a situation where you're handed everything, you have no desire to expand. If you think about it, there have been very few life changing breakthroughs in the last 10 years. There have been minor breakthroughs, but most of those were based upon work of generations before them. Innovation is what made the US peak in the last 200 years, and now it seems our brain power and dominance is in the decline. Businesses are concerned with "What makes money today" instead of "What will be the next big thing in 5-10 years?"

This is a purely observational opinion, but what do you think? Am I right or am I overlooking something?

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Serves 'em right. They saw this coming and could have started retooling factories 2-3 years ago. But no, it was more SUVs, Hummers, etc.

So what about all of the other auto manufacturers who are still building huge SUVs? I mean, Toyota only has 6 different SUVs available right now.

Let's not forget about the money losing Tundra. Around here, you can get Tundra's for $18K brand new. No one is buying them. They are the worst in fuel efficiency in the full size segment.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Can't sell cars on sync auto systems and onstar alone.

Are you suggesting we have a collaboration and put BOTH in?! That would work, right? right?

put both of them in a quality car that will run like a kitten all the way to 200,000+ miles, and get at least 50 mpg, and not rust, and not feel like you are driving around in a small box on wheels, and i'd be sold with either the Ford or GM logo on it.

what car manufacturer offers that now?

some are A LOT closer than GM and Ford.

Geo Metro. They get great mileage, run forever, just look like shit. It's a GM product. And if you want one cheaper, then the Metro since they have sky rocketed in price, find a Suzuki swift from that same model run as they are the same.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Can't sell cars on sync auto systems and onstar alone.

Are you suggesting we have a collaboration and put BOTH in?! That would work, right? right?

put both of them in a quality car that will run like a kitten all the way to 200,000+ miles, and get at least 50 mpg, and not rust, and not feel like you are driving around in a small box on wheels, and i'd be sold with either the Ford or GM logo on it.

Only 200k? Toyota was building cars that would do 300k+ in '88 (first car, Camry )
My car guy's Tacoma is still running at about 450k+, with routine maintenance and transmission. No huge bills besides the transmission; original motor.
200k is a bit easy now.

Except toyota is doing a silent buy back on ALL 95-00 Tacoma's because the frames were not properly rust proofed. You can get upto 150% of blue book value. Top quality if you ask me.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Can't sell cars on sync auto systems and onstar alone.

Are you suggesting we have a collaboration and put BOTH in?! That would work, right? right?

put both of them in a quality car that will run like a kitten all the way to 200,000+ miles, and get at least 50 mpg, and not rust, and not feel like you are driving around in a small box on wheels, and i'd be sold with either the Ford or GM logo on it.

what car manufacturer offers that now?

some are A LOT closer than GM and Ford.

Name some that are CLOSE to the above specs?

My 89 Chevy Silverado had 200k+ miles ran like a top and didn't feel cramped or small. It did only get 14MPG highway though

 

[EGGO]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Serves 'em right. They saw this coming and could have started retooling factories 2-3 years ago. But no, it was more SUVs, Hummers, etc.

I wanted my European Focus, but no, there was no market for it. Now they're bringing them in 2010 but too late for them.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: EGGO

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Serves 'em right. They saw this coming and could have started retooling factories 2-3 years ago. But no, it was more SUVs, Hummers, etc.

I wanted my European Focus, but no, there was no market for it. Now they're bringing them in 2010 but too late for them.

GM brought over some European models via Aura and Astra but people don't seem to give a crap about them now despite thousands of fans claiming that they would buy if GM brought them over. We all know how well that turned out.

 

[desy]

They really dropped th ball on advertising the new Mailibu and Saturns
Your just now seeing advertisements for em

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: EGGO

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Serves 'em right. They saw this coming and could have started retooling factories 2-3 years ago. But no, it was more SUVs, Hummers, etc.

I wanted my European Focus, but no, there was no market for it. Now they're bringing them in 2010 but too late for them.

GM brought over some European models via Aura and Astra but people don't seem to give a crap about them now despite thousands of fans claiming that they would buy if GM brought them over. We all know how well that turned out.

Actually a lot of the new Saturn stuff is selling pretty decent, Saturn has really become a prominent GM brand. Anyone who remember their early 90's cars can really notice the growth. =)

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

My 89 Chevy Silverado had 200k+ miles ran like a top and didn't feel cramped or small. It did only get 14MPG highway though

That was my point. There is no single car that gets all of the above from any company (Toyota and Honda are close), yet GM and Ford would be "required" to get to those standards in order to sell a car. I guess brand perception takes time to change. Just look at Toyota's changing rankings from Consumer reports and also that GM topped several of the car of the year awards this year, not to mention right up there (Buicks) in JD Powers initial quality survey.

Also heard that GM is selling all of the Cobalts and Malibus that they can make, but they can't increase production quick enough to turn it around.

 

[SparkyJJO]

It isn't just GM and ford dropping, toyota has dropped recently too.

 

[Kenazo]

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
I have a new 2008 Malibu and I love it. A fantastic car.

Did you spring for the 'hybrid' model?

 

[wetcat007]

Originally posted by: PricklyPete

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Serves 'em right. They saw this coming and could have started retooling factories 2-3 years ago. But no, it was more SUVs, Hummers, etc.

So what about all of the other auto manufacturers who are still building huge SUVs? I mean, Toyota only has 6 different SUVs available right now.

With 4 of them having new models lauched in the last 1.5 years (Tundra, Sequoia, Land Cruiser, and Higlander). Oh yeah...GM and Ford were the only ones...sighh.

Toyota also launched the Yaris recently, a new Corolla, Camry Hybrid and has the Prius with a new one planned for 2009. The problem is GM/Ford was rather dependent on their SUVs/Trucks for money. With high gas prices the poor gas mileage vehicles flop in sales while the high mileage ones soar as we're seeing right now.

On top of all this GM/Ford have reputation problems with reliability. The Hummer brand has given GM a gas guzzler name, whether it is true or not.

It should be interesting to see how the Saturn Astra does as that was taken directly from their European line and probably the best compact GM has had in decades in the US, however whether or not it will compare to the competition I'm not sure. Ford supposedly will be bringing the European Focus to the US in 2010.

 

[GoingUp]

Originally posted by: Kenazo

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
I have a new 2008 Malibu and I love it. A fantastic car.

Did you spring for the 'hybrid' model?

No. V6 LTZ. I still get 30mpg on the highway with it though even though its only rated at 17/25

 

[BUTCH1]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Can't sell cars on sync auto systems and onstar alone.

Are you suggesting we have a collaboration and put BOTH in?! That would work, right? right?

put both of them in a quality car that will run like a kitten all the way to 200,000+ miles, and get at least 50 mpg, and not rust, and not feel like you are driving around in a small box on wheels, and i'd be sold with either the Ford or GM logo on it.

50 MPG, sure it can be done but it's gonna have to be a small weakly powered vehicle.
My '94 Escort (88HP) got 30/41, but it's hard to sell a car with 88HP in the USA. You
can't have your cake and eat it too!.

 

[CasioTech]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
So by all time low you mean as low as they were 25 years ago?

hahahhaha.