Ford and GM @ All Time Lows

[TruePaige]

Just to top it off, since the jetta is a larger car with newer technology, lets look at even a really cheap VW diesel.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/#/...ines/fuel-consumption/

The Polo.

RATED at 57/88 mpg.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Toyota Prius Hybrid

So you drive one of those?

Do they really run 200,000+ miles like a Kitten?

No rust ever?

The battery will last 200,000+ miles?

It doesn't feel like a box with wheels?

Really?

OK, others?

Oh, and is it RATED for 50 mpg ?

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Honda, Toyota. Their cars have mad trade in value for obvious reasons.

Specific cars please?

Toyota Prius Hybrid



Nested quotes suck

ATOT Moderator ElFenix


clean up Aisle 5
thanks!

So you drive one of those?

Do they really run 200,000+ miles like a Kitten?

No rust ever?

The battery will last 200,000+ miles?

It doesn't feel like a box with wheels?

Really?

OK, others?

Oh, and is it RATED for 50 mpg ?

it's closer than ANYTHING Ford or GM puts out.

Next?

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
it's closer than ANYTHING Ford or GM puts out.

Next?

I never stated anything about Ford or GM, I simply ask for proof of what you have stated above. You're flaming Ford and GM for not producing a car to YOUR specs that nobody else provides. So I assume you drive a Prius since it's CLOSER than anyone else to your specs?

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: moshquerade
it's closer than ANYTHING Ford or GM puts out.

Next?

I never stated anything about Ford or GM, I simply ask for proof of what you have stated above. You're flaming Ford and GM for not producing a car to YOUR specs that nobody else provides. So I assume you drive a Prius since it's CLOSER than anyone else to your specs?

this thread is about Ford and GM. i stated that if they could make a car with those features I would buy one.
i have a Toyota, not a Prius, but I'm seriously thinking of trading in. they are within those specs i asked for so let's not argue semantics.

 

[Greenman]

Why so much American car bashing? I've owned 7 or 8 of them and never had one not run 250k without a major problem. I'm also a little vague as to why you're hating on union auto workers. Sure it would be nice to pay them minimum wage with no bennys or retirement so we can have cheap cars, but I don't begrudge them making a living. What really amazes me is that US car makers have been able to compete with the offshore company's for so long while paying a fair wage.

With the deals being offered right now, I may go buy a new truck and keep it in my garage for a couple years till I need it.

 

[Gibson486]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Toyota Prius Hybrid

So you drive one of those?

Do they really run 200,000+ miles like a Kitten?

No rust ever?

The battery will last 200,000+ miles?

It doesn't feel like a box with wheels?

Really?

OK, others?

Oh, and is it RATED for 50 mpg ?

I actually know 2 people who have a Prius.

They actually get around 48-51Mpg, but they never drive hard. If I drove it, i'd probably get 42 mpg.

Don't know what the rust situation is.

one of them has about 70 K on it and it never had trouble.

It is very roomy and comfy and it is actually not loud.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: moshquerade
it's closer than ANYTHING Ford or GM puts out.

Next?

I never stated anything about Ford or GM, I simply ask for proof of what you have stated above. You're flaming Ford and GM for not producing a car to YOUR specs that nobody else provides. So I assume you drive a Prius since it's CLOSER than anyone else to your specs?

this thread is about Ford and GM. i stated that if they could make a car with those features I would buy one.
i have a Toyota, not a Prius, but I'm seriously thinking of trading in. they are within those specs i asked for so let's not argue semantics.

I'm not arguing for GM or Ford. I personally think that they both pretty much SUCK and my old favorite Dodge is sucking ass right now (hate all new Dodge Designs). I'll admit that the Prius might be closer to the above that you described. However, there is no "proof" that it will do the above just yet and it's still a box on wheels, and an ugly one too (that's irrelevant though because looks didn't factor in on this thread! ).

It "probably" won't rust...but who knows. Just ask Toyota about frame rust on the Tacoma from a few years ago.

"IF" Ford and GM fold, it will ripple more throughout the US economy than most people realize. It's not just about an "icon" dropping.......

 

[nerp]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Can't sell cars on sync auto systems and onstar alone.

Are you suggesting we have a collaboration and put BOTH in?! That would work, right? right?

put both of them in a quality car that will run like a kitten all the way to 200,000+ miles, and get at least 50 mpg, and not rust, and not feel like you are driving around in a small box on wheels, and i'd be sold with either the Ford or GM logo on it.

So who is making one of those now so I can go out and buy one?

Otherwise, you must be riding a bike as nobody makes the above currently.

Sounds like a SMART car, minus a little rust and dunno about running like a kitten to 200,000 miles, but it's a damn decent start.

 

[herm0016]

my family has also never owned anything but a GM product, they have all lasted 200,000 plus miles. the trucks get the best in class gas mileage with the displacement on demand, my olds 88 ( a pretty large car) gets similar mileage to an accord with a 4cyl, while i have a V6 with 50 more horses. best i have gotten with it is 32.5mpg, worst is about 20 while driving through blizzards and snow drifts. its got about 110,000 on it and i still cant tell if its running sometimes at a stop light. does not burn a drop of oil and the body is in great shape. I have had similar experience with almost every gm product we have owned. How come you hate them so much mosh? this is as pad as a mcsame/obamamessiah thread. the foreign car lovers will not listen to anything positive about an American made product just because of the badge on the hood. Use some common sense, there is an equivalent GM or Ford product to almost everything any other manufacture makes.

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Just to top it off, since the jetta is a larger car with newer technology, lets look at even a really cheap VW diesel.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/#/...ines/fuel-consumption/

The Polo.

RATED at 57/88 mpg.

england uses larger gallons...

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Just to top it off, since the jetta is a larger car with newer technology, lets look at even a really cheap VW diesel.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/#/...ines/fuel-consumption/

The Polo.

RATED at 57/88 mpg.

england uses larger gallons...

Sarcasm I hope?

 

[PingSpike]

GM has the same problem they had in the 70s. Consumers don't care about your union or retirement problems. You have to make thevehicles they want to buy. Not burning the few customers you have left with junk is also a good strategy. GM is a massive company with a ton of different brands...when handed the windfall of the SUV craze and cheap gas their response was to get rid of their innovative small cars or let the design rot for a decade and build more SUVs and larger gas sucking vehicles.

What they should have done, being a large company, was used the profit to bolster their weakest areas so that they could remain flexible. All manufactorers were guilty of moving to gas sucking vehicles, but other makes were branching out from their strong points, bolstering their weak areas when doing so. Its no secret that massive profits were available selling SUVs and trucks, and GM isn't the only one thats going to be stinging from the flight away from them. But Toyota and Honda still have solid brand strength and fuel efficient offerings to fall back on....along with innovations like hybrids, CNG or even hydrogen. I'll be the first to admit that many of those ideas are dubious in usefulness or even profitability, but they don't look like stupid investments in R&D right now do they?

No one was really ready for the breakneck gas spike and change in consumer preferences. But GM doesn't have much on the floor right now that even sort of meets the criteria. Assuming the volt ever shows up and GM doesn't decide to try and charge 60 large for it they might have a chance at leapfrogging the Japanese. Thats assuming they can survive in the meantime.

 

[Fritzo]

We used to be the best at everything, then the Generation X'ers came along and rested on the accomplishments of the previous generation, and boom---here we are.

"They have no idea how to do that and still pay $30+/hour that the unions demand."
That's the bottom line right there.[/quote]

They are solving that as quick as possible....they're shipping production to Mexico at a break neck speed. Will they make it in time? I don't know.

This also pisses me off to no end. It's like a union rep is telling the company "Pay this guy $32.50, a 100% health plan, and a 90% pension for screwing on bolts, and that's the ONLY job he's allowed to do. We'd rather you close the company and pay them NOTHING than take less than $32.50."

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

We used to be the best at everything, then the Generation X'ers came along and rested on the accomplishments of the previous generation, and boom---here we are.

"They have no idea how to do that and still pay $30+/hour that the unions demand."
That's the bottom line right there.

They are solving that as quick as possible....they're shipping production to Mexico at a break neck speed. Will they make it in time? I don't know.

This also pisses me off to no end. It's like a union rep is telling the company "Pay this guy $32.50, a 100% health plan, and a 90% pension for screwing on bolts, and that's the ONLY job he's allowed to do. We'd rather you close the company and pay them NOTHING than take less than $32.50."

LOL Frizo...quoting yourself and adding commentary.

Replying to your alternate ego again?

 

[Svnla]

Originally posted by: Greenman
Why so much American car bashing? I've owned 7 or 8 of them and never had one not run 250k without a major problem. I'm also a little vague as to why you're hating on union auto workers. Sure it would be nice to pay them minimum wage with no bennys or retirement so we can have cheap cars, but I don't begrudge them making a living. What really amazes me is that US car makers have been able to compete with the offshore company's for so long while paying a fair wage.

With the deals being offered right now, I may go buy a new truck and keep it in my garage for a couple years till I need it.

I used to work along side with those UAW workers for a few years so I can tell you this.

I will take 10% of those workers and take on anyone from Japan, Europe, or Mars to build a car.

The rest of them I would not touch them with a ten foot pole even with a naked Jessica Alba comes with the offer.

GM used to have a market share of over 50% in the US, yes 1 out of 2, in the 50s. Now, they are below 20% and dropping. Toyota will take over GM as the world large auto maker, not IF but WHEN. You tell me, is it how you compete in a worldwide market?

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Greenman
Why so much American car bashing? I've owned 7 or 8 of them and never had one not run 250k without a major problem. I'm also a little vague as to why you're hating on union auto workers. Sure it would be nice to pay them minimum wage with no bennys or retirement so we can have cheap cars, but I don't begrudge them making a living. What really amazes me is that US car makers have been able to compete with the offshore company's for so long while paying a fair wage.

With the deals being offered right now, I may go buy a new truck and keep it in my garage for a couple years till I need it.

You've driven between 1.75 million and 2 million miles on your own??? :shocked: Wow! You caused the fuel crisis all by yourself!!!

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Can't sell cars on sync auto systems and onstar alone.

Are you suggesting we have a collaboration and put BOTH in?! That would work, right? right?

put both of them in a quality car that will run like a kitten all the way to 200,000+ miles, and get at least 50 mpg, and not rust, and not feel like you are driving around in a small box on wheels, and i'd be sold with either the Ford or GM logo on it.

The HHR's interior feels like the plastic they used in cars from 1982, and the fabric they use on the interior feels like the stuff left over from stretch pants (also from the 80's). The design of the car is nice, and it does get up to 34mpg hwy, but we've had it back 3 times already to repair:
- a rain leak on the driver side console
- the center console detached from the floor
- an odd "coolant" smell
- vibrating brakes

US cars have a world reputation is being big low quality gas guzzlers. Also, US auto workers have a rep as being an over paid, non-caring, over unionized workforce. I don't know what the hell they were thinking when all 3 of the Big 3 were still investing in SUV's and pickups back in 2002 when gas spiked to $2.00+. Everyone else started designing fuel efficient cars, and now they're laughing at the US automakers. Yet another reason I'm becoming more and more embarrassed to be an American.

We used to be the best at everything, then the Generation X'ers came along and rested on the accomplishments of the previous generation, and boom---here we are.

they really need to get rid of the cheap plastic. until they do, i'm never going to even consider one.

The designers/ engineers really need to step up their work if they want to compete w/ euro/jap manufacturers. It's not the competitors fault the auto manufacturers are losing their jobs, its the marketing, design and engineering people who cant make a car that people want to buy.

then some bastards have the nerve to call you un-american because you drive an import.

sorry, i'll put my money where quality is.

talking about this pisses me off, lol

 

[herm0016]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Greenman
Why so much American car bashing? I've owned 7 or 8 of them and never had one not run 250k without a major problem. I'm also a little vague as to why you're hating on union auto workers. Sure it would be nice to pay them minimum wage with no bennys or retirement so we can have cheap cars, but I don't begrudge them making a living. What really amazes me is that US car makers have been able to compete with the offshore company's for so long while paying a fair wage.

With the deals being offered right now, I may go buy a new truck and keep it in my garage for a couple years till I need it.

You've driven between 1.75 million and 2 million miles on your own??? :shocked: Wow! You caused the fuel crisis all by yourself!!!

2million/30 is only about 65000.... he could have been driving for more than 30 years, or if it is a 2 car household and say, 20 years of driving both.. its not even close to what some people put on their cars. An on the road sales person can put 65000 on a car in a year easy, its only an average of 1250 miles a week or 250 a day. take a few long trips plus work and you have that easy.

and i want to add... the Toyota my friend just got drives like a semi and is noisy as heck. The transmission shift points are awkward at best. I know most people will not notice these things because they don't know what a nice car handles or shifts like though, they just think that because of the badge they have a great car.

 

[her209]

Pwned!

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Just to top it off, since the jetta is a larger car with newer technology, lets look at even a really cheap VW diesel.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/#/...ines/fuel-consumption/

The Polo.

RATED at 57/88 mpg.

england uses larger gallons...

Sarcasm I hope?

Ignorance much?

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Serves 'em right. They saw this coming and could have started retooling factories 2-3 years ago. But no, it was more SUVs, Hummers, etc.

The sad thing is man they began to completely retool the original Saturn plant in TN because they saw SOMETHING on the horizon. Oops, they retooled it to make some freaking huge SUV. Idiots.

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Just to top it off, since the jetta is a larger car with newer technology, lets look at even a really cheap VW diesel.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/#/...ines/fuel-consumption/

The Polo.

RATED at 57/88 mpg.

england uses larger gallons...

Sarcasm I hope?

English gallon is 1.2 american gallons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...lon#Measures_of_volume

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Just to top it off, since the jetta is a larger car with newer technology, lets look at even a really cheap VW diesel.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/#/...ines/fuel-consumption/

The Polo.

RATED at 57/88 mpg.

england uses larger gallons...

Sarcasm I hope?

English gallon is 1.2 american gallons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...lon#Measures_of_volume

So that would mean the mpg would be even better in American ratings.

Hmm..I thought the UK and USA used the same standardized Gallon for cars when measuring MPG. Interesting.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: TruePaige

At least 50mpg? Check.
Not going to rust? Check.
Not Small as a box? Check.
Proven Technology to keep on going? Check.

At most 30/41 MPG? Check
Made with materials that rust? Check
Less interior space than a refrigerator box? Check
Proven technology that will leave you stranded with an electrical issue? Check


Do some research, it will help you argue.

Nested quotes suck

ATOT Moderator ElFenix

I've done some research in this field:

Yes, hybrids do have two engines, but their top notch engineering has proved the combination to be highly reliable over the last few years, and have actually seen fewer trips to the dealer for repairs than their non-hybrid counterparts. This may be due to the lower percentage of them on the road though- we'll need to wait a few more years to tell if they actually last.

Many newer hybrids come with electronic rust protection, so that's kind of moot.

As a rule, electric engines are more reliable than gas engines due to less moving parts. Electrical problems are much less common than mechanical problems.

It is unproven how long hybrid batterys last, but the price of replacement has dropped dramatically. At one point, it was a $3000 repair. The price for most modern hybrids is under $500 now. Suggested battery life is 5-7 years.

Gas would have to get over $4/gallon for a hybrid to make financial sense. Well...we're there!

I'm betting that ALL new cars will be hybrids within the next 5 years, and we're going to see pure electric cars that you plug into a home outlet soon.