Forced to Use Birth Bathroom

[jackstar7]

Because I dont think using kids as a lab experiment for issues adults are fighting about is the right thing to do.

Why are we protecting a source of awkwardness?

Unisex bathrooms would be a step towards the de-stigmatization of the human experience of shitting.

 

[chrsmi1]

They claim it's all about bathrooms, but we know what is really going on here.
Republicans in republican controlled states "think" they have found their loophole around the latest GLBT legal advancements that the US Supreme Court ruled in favor of.
That like it or not, have became the law of the land.
And these guys, these republicans controlling state governments, they just never give it up.

Take minorities and race, for example.
It has been years and years since Rosa Parks, years since Martin Luther King had a dream, years since LBJ signed the civil right laws, and despite all that republicans in many of these republican controlled states have patiently waited for yet another chance to turn back the clock.

Their determination and dedication reminds me exactly of terrorist over in the Middle East.
The guys that patiently wait their turn, learn to fly jet airliners, mingle amongst us.
Waiting for their time and for their hour to finally arrive.
This is the definition of many republican controlled states now busy enacting laws to squash the vote and loophole around US Supreme Court rulings.

Terrorist can and will wait years, decades, for their chance to finally take revenge.
They just never give it up.
You hear about some terrorist attack over in Israel and wonder why now?
Then, later it comes out it was all about terrorist revenge for some shit that happened 50 years ago.
They can certainly hold onto a grudge, and so can those republicans all hell bent on turning back the clock.
Revenge against the civil rights, revenge against Rosa Parks, revenge against segregation.
They hate it all. They despise it all.
And the only thing you can count on, that they will never ever give it up.

And now we add to that mix LGBT rights.
So once again republicans come up with new terminology, new plans for terrorism against American freedom.
Freedoms granted by courts which terrorist, naturally, have no respect for.
Not as long as courts, in their mind, continue to rule against the change they seek.

But all this simply amounts to just another bump in the road.
A distraction.
And as so often with their misguided efforts, they always backfire big time when all is said and done.
All that their so called religious freedom laws will do is force the courts, and eventually the highest court in the land, to once again rule on.
And when the court speaks, it will rule to create and expand protections not currently available to the GLBT community.
Nation wide protections against discrimination in the workplace, against discrimination with housing, and what will really bite them bigots in the butt, rule to provide protections within the business community.

Yes... the butcher, the baker, and even the candle stick maker will by law must provide service to the entire LGBT community.
This is inevitable. And it's coming.
And why republicans constantly bring this down onto themselves is beyond me.
It's like they get a bug up their butt that just will not give up, and they scheme and plot around law and courts to enact their petty discrimination quirks on the state level, only to bring the wrath of the full US Supreme court down upon their heads.

Then they wonder, what the hell has happened to America?
And they promise to one day "make America great again", or to "bring back traditional American values" or to "protect religion freedom".

With all the problems plaguing America, the economy, the climate, terrorism, education, our deteriorating infrastructure, you'd think some of those republican controlled states would have better things to do.
More important issues to address.
But no.....
They patiently sit back, awaiting their chance to loophole around the system, pass their petty laws, with believing they can get away with it.
Only to once again shoot themselves in the foot.
Go figure....

Did you really write a long post just to say that conservatives=terrorist?

As a NC resident I can say that if you don't like the law, vote the Republicans out. And if you don't live here, then get over it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[werepossum]

When this happens, regressives will be fighting hard against hand-held DNA testers being used on dates, and the 'bigots' who refuse to copulate with those not born the gender they want to boink/marry.

I don't need to quote the rest of your excellent post - we're totally on the same page and, as usual, you phrased it better than I would have. :thumbsup:

Totally, and thanks.

It doesn't have to be sexual assault or rape. Just being in there or taking pics/vids is enough. Who said they had to be mentally ill to take advantage of this? About a year ago a perv was caught video recording women in the bathroom at our favorite restaurant, hiding in a stall. You don't think this happens often, and that the law will make it easier? All someone has to say is that they identify as male/female and if you say something against it people will call them a bigot. I am not saying it would be a plague that affected everyone, but I do think it would happen.

As I said, I don't have a problem with it aside from schools or other bathrooms for juveniles. Under 18 I do not think it should happen. Over 18 I personally don't have an issue with it. I think it will be taken advantage of, but what law isn't. I don't think this would go over well if say Gold's Gym adopted it. Because the bathroom is also a change room. Even if some dude dresses like a girl and acts like one, but has a dick and goes into the womens changing room it wouldn't go over well. I personally wouldn't care if a female who claims to be a male came into the mens room, I've been forced to be naked in front of many people before and am not self conscious about my body.

The money would have to come from somewhere if they made a third bathroom for transgender or unisex. They could charge for a public restroom, other countries do just that. I was in Germany and it costed a Euro or two. Had a guy standing there and a deposit machine with a little toll gate similar to subways.

Agreed, and well said.

Did you really write a long post just to say that conservatives=terrorist?

As a NC resident I can say that if you don't like the law, vote the Republicans out. And if you don't live here, then get over it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

He, um, has some issues.

 

[Fern]

I think the fairest way is allow people to simply use the bathroom of the gender listed on their drivers license. (children in school can use a family/nurses bathroom until they're of age, basically an adult) A transperson can change the gender on their license, but there are a few barriers. It's not something that happens over night and requires a commitment to prove you're serious. We're talking seeing a psychiatrist, getting evaluated psychologically, being diagnosed with gender identity disorder and getting letters written on your behalf by a professional. Perhaps going so far as to get a letter from an endocrinologist certifying your being on hormone replacement therapy for transition as well.

If you can prove all of that and bring the paper work to a judge that can change your legal gender on court documents and clear the way to you getting your drivers license changed at the DMV, then that would be a road to using the bathroom of the gender you identify with without allowing just any old burly bearded dude claiming to be trans to go into the girls room and molest your vulnerable beady eyed innocent daughter.

So that's how it should be?

Congrats, that how this law actually works!

I saw the NC Congressperson who wrote the law explaining it on cable news. That's exactly how he said it works.

Seems to be a lot of confusion and misinformation. People have been claiming you must use the restroom in accordance with you original BC. Nope. All it takes is a note from your physician to get your BC amended. From there you can get a new driver's license with your new gender on it etc.

Actually, it wouldn't because people willing to disregard laws against rape aren't going to be deterred by a stick figure sign and a birth gender law, but I am seemingly unable to get that realization through thick Conservative skulls. Certainly though, if it's just a toothless feel-good-feeling law conservatives are advocating for with this birth sex thing for the purposes of blinding their constituents with social issues while the big issues are brushed under the rug then this is a fair alternative that still meets that criteria.

I see you're one under the mistaken impression that this about your "birth sex". Now you know it's not.

Yeah, the "stick figure sign" helps. Without that sign and a law against men in a women's restroom, there's nothing LE can do when a man is found lurking in a women's restroom. Do we really want to allow that guy to lurk only being able to act AFTER a woman is assaulted? I don't think so.

The city ordinance this law overturned gave cover to any (potential or actual) sex offender. See my sig. Poorly thought out ordinances and laws are nothing new or unique.
--------------

This thread reeks of the male dominated viewpoint. How many times must I read some guy say he isn't discomforted by the idea of a woman using the restroom with him.

Well guys, most women don't feel the same way, at all. They don't want guys to be allowed in their restroom. I'm talking pro-gay rights women. They're not comfortable with it. Period. Same with gym locker rooms etc.

So, this is not a gay versus anti-gay issue. This is gay rights versus women's rights. I suspect this is one reason there is so much misinformation. This is a fight between 2 Dem constituencies; no political advantage there.

I see only faux outrage for political purposes. I watch a lot of cable news. I don't recall the restroom issue being in any headlines before. This bill puts it back to the way it was.

Fern

 

[fskimospy]

Fern, gay people and trans people are not even remotely the same thing.

 

[Fern]

Fern, gay people and trans people are not even remotely the same thing.

I'm aware of that. (Although I think "not remotely" goes too far in that they are not mutually exclusive and that can be implied by use of that term.)

But this has been advertised as an anti gay, anti LGBT issue. Look at many posts here. Look at the way the way the MSM is portraying this. Look at the entertainers who are cancelling because of the anti-gay claim etc. I'm saying it's not.

Fern

 

[fskimospy]

I'm aware of that. (Although I think "not remotely" goes too far in that they are not mutually exclusive and that can be implied by use of that term.)

But this has been advertised as an anti gay, anti LGBT issue. Look at many posts here. Look at the way the way the MSM is portraying this. Look at the entertainers who are cancelling because of the anti-gay claim etc. I'm saying it's not.

Fern

It seems like forcing someone to amend their birth certificate and get a new drivers license in order to prevent supposed crimes that feed into an almost evidence free moral panic seems pretty anti-LGBT to me.

I'm a big believer in this sort of activism. North Carolina made a choice to act out against trans people. Now they will face the consequences of that choice. Everyone is happy.

EDIT: I just read more about this bill. It also removed the ability of people to sue for discrimination in NC state courts and overturned all local nondiscrimination ordinances for trans people. But remember, it's the media that's wrong here.

You say you watch a lot of cable news, but it appears they never mentioned any of these things. Maybe you should watch less, because it's making you woefully misinformed.

 

[mizzou]

This is so stupid. We do not need the government to tell us where to pee!

I like the European model, where there is just a bathroom and everyone uses it. It's your choice! We have such a sacredness mentality of women in this country. I feel like we assume every man can't control themselves when around women. Are we that dense?

 

[ControlD]

This is so stupid. We do not need the government to tell us where to pee!

I like the European model, where there is just a bathroom and everyone uses it. It's your choice! We have such a sacredness mentality of women in this country. I feel like we assume every man can't control themselves when around women. Are we that dense?

I've never seen that in any European country I have been to.

 

[mikeymikec]

I've never seen that in any European country I have been to.

I felt like pointing this out but as I largely agreed with his post it seemed like nit-picking I think some places in France have toilets like he described, but I've never seen them first-hand.

 

[Subyman]

I'm aware of that. (Although I think "not remotely" goes too far in that they are not mutually exclusive and that can be implied by use of that term.)

But this has been advertised as an anti gay, anti LGBT issue. Look at many posts here. Look at the way the way the MSM is portraying this. Look at the entertainers who are cancelling because of the anti-gay claim etc. I'm saying it's not.

Fern

The LGBT movement sticks together because it makes their voice louder. An an attack on one is perceived as an attack on all of them. For the most part, the laws against trans come from the same people and same moral convictions as the laws against gays.

I do think people sling around the terms loosely.

 

[mizzou]

I've never seen that in any European country I have been to.

I saw it at a french school I visited a few years ago. I agree it's obviously not widespread, but I never seen it before until then.

 

[bradly1101]

This is so stupid. We do not need the government to tell us where to pee!

I like the European model, where there is just a bathroom and everyone uses it. It's your choice! We have such a sacredness mentality of women in this country. I feel like we assume every man can't control themselves when around women. Are we that dense?

The answer is yes. There are entire societies that cover their women head to toe because men can't control themselves. Heck even in this country women used to be covered a lot more.

I'll never forget when I was hanging out with a friend who hooted and hollered when we drove past a woman in a sun dress. I said, "Dude, what the hell are you doing?" He said, "Look what she's wearing, she's totally asking for it." :'(

The European model works for them because there is a different level of sophistication.

 

[bshole]

I've been noticing these homophobic state legislatures around the South making laws that allow for "religious discrimination of gays" and forcing transgendered people to use the bathroom identified on their birth certificate instead of the one they identify with now.

For every 10 homosexual there is one transgender. There are 3 transgender people per 1000. You can go through your entire life without knowingly meeting a transgendered person. I have knowingly spoken to one transgendered person (I was drunk and trying to pick her/him up.... it broke my heart when he/she told me that she/he had a dick) in my entire life. One of the teachers at my kids school was transgendered, I never spoke to him/her. He became a she and killed herself two years later. I think the suicide rate among the transgendered is around 40%. That is staggering number. I really feel sorry for this group. They didn't ask to be like they are.

 

[Atreus21]

Why are we protecting a source of awkwardness?

Unisex bathrooms would be a step towards the de-stigmatization of the human experience of shitting.

Everything that is private is now just "stigma"?

 

[Atreus21]

Question:

Why is this such a big deal?

How on earth did we go through 200 years of history with separate restrooms, and survive?

 

[bshole]

Question:

Why is this such a big deal?

How on earth did we go through 200 years of history with separate restrooms, and survive?

Not quite....

Such laws date back to 1887, according to Terry S. Kogan, a University of Utah law professor and a contributor to the book Toilet: Public Restrooms and the Politics of Sharing. One hundred and twenty-seven years ago, Massachusetts passed the first law mandating gender-segregated toilets, and many states quickly followed suit. Many of those laws have never been substantially modified, with obvious exceptions in progressive enclaves like D.C. and San Francisco, meaning that much of the United States' toilet-related building codes reflect a literally Victorian prudishness that we might mock in other contexts.

Additionally humans went through over 100,000 years of shitting together in the woods.... in a completely gender neutral manner. Splitting of the genders for bathroom uses is a relative eye-blink in terms of human history.

Given that, I still don't want to share bathrooms with women. They take too fucking long and I don't want to stand in line for them.

 

[jackstar7]

Everything that is private is now just "stigma"?

I like how I was quite specific and the first thing you do is generalize.

 

[sm625]

You will know this country is too far gone when it spends $50 billion on body scanners installed on every bathroom door to scan everyone to see if they are using the proper frickin restroom. That is where this idiocracy is going. The ultimate end of PC stupidity. But some well connected company will make billions in profits installing all those scanners.

 

[Zaap]

I felt like pointing this out but as I largely agreed with his post it seemed like nit-picking I think some places in France have toilets like he described, but I've never seen them first-hand.

Heck I've been in coed saunas in Finland and Estonia... clothing optional. As an American I was raised to think men and women around each other naked MUST mean there's something sexual going on, but my friends/family from Europe see it totally different. But yeah, even there I don't recall co-ed public bathrooms as common. First one I ever saw as a kid was in Santa Cruz, CA and I thought it made perfect sense even then.

To me, a sauna (naked no less!) is a much bigger deal than being fully clothed, in a stall next to someone else also in a stall, just answering nature's call. Who cares? I don't get why anyone feels more or less comfortable depending on what set of unseen sex organs is in the stall next to them.

Its a silly thing for any adult to be making a big thing over.

 

[WackyDan]

http://www.king5.com/news/man-womens-locker-room-cites-gender-rule/65533111

This man entered a woman's room in Seattle at a public pool and started to undress. He did so out of protest of the local ordinance allowing trans people to use the bathroom of choice for the sex they identify with.

Keep in mind something. Prior to this ordinance he would have been arrested for doing so. He isn't trans. He isn't gay.

He made a valid point in what he did. It does expose public safety issues. Transgender people make up less than 1% of the population. They have no inherent right to use the bathroom of their choice if that choice makes a larger part of the population give up their rights to privacy and security. I'm all for people not being discriminated against, but at some point there are barriers that should exist. If it is a unisex bathroom, they can have at it.

The first man who isn't transgendered I find in the women's bathroom with my wife and daughter is going to have to dial 911 himself by time I'm done with him. That stance isn't any different now than what it was before all these ordinances for Trans rights or Laws against them.

I don't agree with the NC state law as it prevent those discriminated against from bringing their complaint through the state courts and it forces them to file their complaint with the federal gov't. More importantly, they way the law was written it applies not just to transgender people but pretty much anyone.. Blacks, females, gays, muslims, etc in regard to that limitation.

We don't need ordinances creating rights and we don't need laws taking them away. I'll support gay rights etc... But this shit is just utter nonsense.

 

[WackyDan]

Heck I've been in coed saunas in Finland and Estonia... clothing optional. As an American I was raised to think men and women around each other naked MUST mean there's something sexual going on, but my friends/family from Europe see it totally different. But yeah, even there I don't recall co-ed public bathrooms as common. First one I ever saw as a kid was in Santa Cruz, CA and I thought it made perfect sense even then.

To me, a sauna (naked no less!) is a much bigger deal than being fully clothed, in a stall next to someone else also in a stall, just answering nature's call. Who cares? I don't get why anyone feels more or less comfortable depending on what set of unseen sex organs is in the stall next to them.

Its a silly thing for any adult to be making a big thing over.

I agree. Been to a nudist campground. Was one of the more social and interesting days of my life and nothing sexual about it.

We are hung up on body image issues here and gender differences. That said, that is not about to change. If you are transgendered then you can seek out unisex bathrooms. If a woman or child feels uncomfortable because a transgendered man is in the woman's bathroom that does not make them bigots. It makes them pretty normal and is purely the result of our cultural difference in comparison to places in Europe, etc.

 

[jackstar7]

I'd like to know a lot more about our right to security. Can you elaborate upon that?

 

[LegendKiller]

For every 10 homosexual there is one transgender. There are 3 transgender people per 1000. You can go through your entire life without knowingly meeting a transgendered person. I have knowingly spoken to one transgendered person (I was drunk and trying to pick her/him up.... it broke my heart when he/she told me that she/he had a dick) in my entire life. One of the teachers at my kids school was transgendered, I never spoke to him/her. He became a she and killed herself two years later. I think the suicide rate among the transgendered is around 40%. That is staggering number. I really feel sorry for this group. They didn't ask to be like they are.

That's because they are fucked in the head and instead of finding out how to fix it, society encourages them to jump from the bridge. You know, because we need to accept and encourage them.

 

[Subyman]

http://www.king5.com/news/man-womens-locker-room-cites-gender-rule/65533111

This man entered a woman's room in Seattle at a public pool and started to undress. He did so out of protest of the local ordinance allowing trans people to use the bathroom of choice for the sex they identify with.

Keep in mind something. Prior to this ordinance he would have been arrested for doing so. He isn't trans. He isn't gay.

He made a valid point in what he did. It does expose public safety issues. Transgender people make up less than 1% of the population. They have no inherent right to use the bathroom of their choice if that choice makes a larger part of the population give up their rights to privacy and security. I'm all for people not being discriminated against, but at some point there are barriers that should exist. If it is a unisex bathroom, they can have at it.

The first man who isn't transgendered I find in the women's bathroom with my wife and daughter is going to have to dial 911 himself by time I'm done with him. That stance isn't any different now than what it was before all these ordinances for Trans rights or Laws against them.

I don't agree with the NC state law as it prevent those discriminated against from bringing their complaint through the state courts and it forces them to file their complaint with the federal gov't. More importantly, they way the law was written it applies not just to transgender people but pretty much anyone.. Blacks, females, gays, muslims, etc in regard to that limitation.

We don't need ordinances creating rights and we don't need laws taking them away. I'll support gay rights etc... But this shit is just utter nonsense.

First, I'm pretty sure assault and battery is likely a more serious crime than using the wrong potty. Seems like you'll be going to jail.

What is funny is that most people protest things that affect them. Such as a black person sitting at the front of the bus during the civil rights movement. The laws are against them, and they rebel. However, this cis man goes into the female restroom and completely undresses (wtf?) to "prove" why a transgendered person shouldn't. It would be like a white man sitting at the back of the bus trying to prove why the blacks should stay back there.