Forced to Use Birth Bathroom

[piasabird]

When over 95% of the people know who they are and can deal with it, then maybe if you dont know what sex you are, you should be in a mental institution.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Holy fuck

People some to really care a lot about other peoples penises and vaginas.

 

[stormkroe]

You think the only thing stopping these "male predators" right now is a stick figure on a bathroom door?

I agree the stick figure has about the same power as a 'gun free zone' sign at a school. A huge difference is, while a gun can be concealed and sneeked (snuk?) into a school, you can't as easily sneak your whole body into a room that's usually clearly labeled for or against your particular genital accessories; people will usually notice that rule being broken.
Think of this, rapists have achieved the pinnacle of cowardice. Anything that makes it easier for them to get into a private area, alone with a woman or young girl, needs to be greatly scrutinized.

 

[sandorski]

When over 95% of the people know who they are and can deal with it, then maybe if you dont know what sex you are, you should be in a mental institution.

Who is saying they don't know what sex they are?

 

[sandorski]

How many of you all have children? Do you really want a guy in the bathroom while your 8 year old is in there as well? Common sense is gone.

Happens everywhere everyday.

 

[Genx87]

Consider this: would kids worry about it if it was the norm?

I posit that we just don't know.

Would they? No idea. Should we force kids to figure it out for us adults? I dont think so.

 

[rudder]

So would that be any better walking into the Men's room with your preteen son, assuming you aren't there with him? Some people are going to be uber creepy no matter where they are. He/she is a better argument for family restrooms where the parent of either sex can go in with young children or send them in secure that they are alone.

I always went into the restroom with my son. Which probably made me look like a perv just standing in the men's room, but I was always sure to call his name to let people know I was not perving. Now he is 12 and taller than me so no more. But I could never go into the bathroom with my daughters. Occasionally I would have to take them into the mens room and I was always on the lookout for pervs who would try to flash a little kid.

In my view if someone sews their vagina shut to become a man or cuts off their penis to become a woman... they probably are/were born in the wrong body. These are not the people I would be concerned about. I am more concerned with the freaks who would use the ability to use any restroom as a tool for their pervertedness.

 

[mikeymikec]

rudder, the point you've just made has been made a few times already as well as countered. I guess you're probably not interested though, because if this topic actually interested you then you probably would have taken the time to read the thread instead of contributing to thread dementia.

----

As a side note I'm wondering just why so many people make the assumption that if someone is different enough to them that that person is likely to be a danger to society in some way. It's not as if kids start off being afraid of literally everything and have to be told, "no son, just because they've got ginger hair, it doesn't mean that they're going to burst into flames".

I'm also wondering how many matches would result if we compared the naysayers' arguments to those of past topics, e.g. racism, equal rights for women, equal rights for homosexuals, etc. I'm almost certain that I've heard the pervert card with regard to homosexuality, or regarding racial segregation and the "safety of our women and children!", and some crazy-ass arguments on the topic of denying women the right to vote or equal pay for the same work.

And before anyone accuses me of "argument shaming", please, put your cards on the table: Let's see some actual evidence that for example suggests an extremely strong correlation between say sexual assault and being trans, and not from your favourite "I hate trans" blog or ultra-religious/conservative "we hate anything that isn't us, and will grudgingly tolerate those that we're legally obliged to" source.

 

[zinfamous]

Who is saying they don't know what sex they are?

piasabird is saying that.

piasabird knows.

I think he's angling for the new Secretary of Gender Assignment position when Social Security is updated in 2022 to carry a new, gender-specific number to accompany our SSNs.

 

[zinfamous]

rudder, the point you've just made has been made a few times already as well as countered. I guess you're probably not interested though, because if this topic actually interested you then you probably would have taken the time to read the thread instead of contributing to thread dementia.

----

As a side note I'm wondering just why so many people make the assumption that if someone is different enough to them that that person is likely to be a danger to society in some way. It's not as if kids start off being afraid of literally everything and have to be told, "no son, just because they've got ginger hair, it doesn't mean that they're going to burst into flames".

I'm also wondering how many matches would result if we compared the naysayers' arguments to those of past topics, e.g. racism, equal rights for women, equal rights for homosexuals, etc. I'm almost certain that I've heard the pervert card with regard to homosexuality, or regarding racial segregation and the "safety of our women and children!", and some crazy-ass arguments on the topic of denying women the right to vote or equal pay for the same work.

There is this perverse notion that still exists in society today, where modern bigots still believe that gay = pervert. This was the typical PSA from the 50s and earlier. Despite no real evidence that this was ever true, and plenty of evidence which supports that perverts and predators that will harm your children are almost certainly:

--someone that knows them or you and your family (a family member or friend); so, "stranger danger" isn't really supported by demographic data. unless you consider those handful of preposterously rare outliers that the media chooses to push over the last several decades.
--heterosexual

this notion still persists with bigots. In fact, it's a pretty good way to identify a bigot. Data is no substitute for unfounded passionate belief among bigots (poorly educated, lacking in experience). Bigots were brought to heal by SCOTUS and gay marriage this last year. This is bigots being bigots and lashing out; transferring their irrational fear and loathing to yet another concept they will simply never understand. Transgender doesn't even mean gay, but bigots are binary individuals incapable of nuance.

 

[JD50]

How many of you all have children? Do you really want a guy in the bathroom while your 8 year old is in there as well? Common sense is gone.

If you're that paranoid just go in there with them.

 

[Sonikku]

I think the fairest way is allow people to simply use the bathroom of the gender listed on their drivers license. (children in school can use a family/nurses bathroom until they're of age, basically an adult) A transperson can change the gender on their license, but there are a few barriers. It's not something that happens over night and requires a commitment to prove you're serious. We're talking seeing a psychiatrist, getting evaluated psychologically, being diagnosed with gender identity disorder and getting letters written on your behalf by a professional. Perhaps going so far as to get a letter from an endocrinologist certifying your being on hormone replacement therapy for transition as well.

If you can prove all of that and bring the paper work to a judge that can change your legal gender on court documents and clear the way to you getting your drivers license changed at the DMV, then that would be a road to using the bathroom of the gender you identify with without allowing just any old burly bearded dude claiming to be trans to go into the girls room and molest your vulnerable beady eyed innocent daughter.

Actually, it wouldn't because people willing to disregard laws against rape aren't going to be deterred by a stick figure sign and a birth gender law, but I am seemingly unable to get that realization through thick Conservative skulls. Certainly though, if it's just a toothless feel-good-feeling law conservatives are advocating for with this birth sex thing for the purposes of blinding their constituents with social issues while the big issues are brushed under the rug then this is a fair alternative that still meets that criteria.

 

[jackstar7]

Would they? No idea. Should we force kids to figure it out for us adults? I dont think so.

But why not? What's the point if we're not making the next generation more capable of caring about important things by not caring about who is shitting next to them?

 

[brycejones]

But why not? What's the point if we're not making the next generation more capable of caring about important things by not caring about who is shitting next to them?

If they don't care about who is shitting next to them that will lead to the end times and absolute moral corruption. Society as we know it will collapse.

 

[werepossum]

You think someone who disregards laws of sexual assault and rape is concerned about laws dictating which bathroom their sex can use? This has to be the same kind of idiocy for Conservatives that Liberals have when they think a "gun free zone" sign makes them "safer". If someone mentally ill is hell bent on raping your sweet innocent little daughter then I hardly think something like a girls room sign and a birth sex only law is going to act as an effective deterrent.

lol Well said.

I always went into the restroom with my son. Which probably made me look like a perv just standing in the men's room, but I was always sure to call his name to let people know I was not perving. Now he is 12 and taller than me so no more. But I could never go into the bathroom with my daughters. Occasionally I would have to take them into the mens room and I was always on the lookout for pervs who would try to flash a little kid.

In my view if someone sews their vagina shut to become a man or cuts off their penis to become a woman... they probably are/were born in the wrong body. These are not the people I would be concerned about. I am more concerned with the freaks who would use the ability to use any restroom as a tool for their pervertedness.

Agreed. I just don't think that the really dangerous freaks (rapists and such) are overly concerned either way with the law, as Sonikku points out.

I think the fairest way is allow people to simply use the bathroom of the gender listed on their drivers license. (children in school can use a family/nurses bathroom until they're of age, basically an adult) A transperson can change the gender on their license, but there are a few barriers. It's not something that happens over night and requires a commitment to prove you're serious. We're talking seeing a psychiatrist, getting evaluated psychologically, being diagnosed with gender identity disorder and getting letters written on your behalf by a professional. Perhaps going so far as to get a letter from an endocrinologist certifying your being on hormone replacement therapy for transition as well.

If you can prove all of that and bring the paper work to a judge that can change your legal gender on court documents and clear the way to you getting your drivers license changed at the DMV, then that would be a road to using the bathroom of the gender you identify with without allowing just any old burly bearded dude claiming to be trans to go into the girls room and molest your vulnerable beady eyed innocent daughter.

Actually, it wouldn't because people willing to disregard laws against rape aren't going to be deterred by a stick figure sign and a birth gender law, but I am seemingly unable to get that realization through thick Conservative skulls. Certainly though, if it's just a toothless feel-good-feeling law conservatives are advocating for with this birth sex thing for the purposes of blinding their constituents with social issues while the big issues are brushed under the rug then this is a fair alternative that still meets that criteria.

That seems like a very reasonable accommodation for everyone. Even if the person changing sex hasn't had surgery, identity change is a pretty reasonable indication that the person involved is serious about changing sexes and not some opportunistic perv.

 

[KMFJD]

How many of you all have children? Do you really want a guy in the bathroom while your 8 year old is in there as well? Common sense is gone.

Why not, is every male a pedophile now?

 

[werepossum]

And that's a perfectly fine reason for the separation to exist. Most people want to feel comfortable during the private act of elimination, and there's less comfort to be had when strangers of the opposite sex are in the same room and stall next to you.

Mass washrooms have already been tried and were rejected by the vast majority.

Strange how it's ALWAYS progressive pushing the issue (hard!) and they always want to remove the urinals and force men to sit...

To a large extent, I agree, although it's funny how people will accept something at a ball game or concert but not in general. But at some point, these laws increase awkwardness by forcing someone who is for all practical, non-genetic purposes one sex into using the other sex's restroom because he or she was born with that equipment. Yet in public restrooms we don't see the equipment. We do see the dress and carriage, and generally speaking, transpeople if anything lean toward caricatures of the sex they favor. What is more awkward, that derelict trannie linked earlier in the ladies' room or a perfectly passable transwoman in feminine dress, stockings and fuck-me heels forced to use the men's room?

We're talking violence here, but let's be honest: nine times out of ten, that transexual is going to be the victim, not the perpetrator.

All very reasonable and probably should be the end of this thread but it won't be.

Thanks.

I'm also imagining the headsplosions a hundred years from now when medical science will likely be able to do a conversion that is more or less undetectable. If we think social conservatives are irate from sharing restrooms with trannies, just wait until they begin discovering they just made out with one.

 

[zinfamous]

Why not, is every male a pedophile now?

Yes? At least, that's what I learn from watching all of the current British police procedural series on Netflix.

 

[Blue_Max]

I'm also imagining the headsplosions a hundred years from now when medical science will likely be able to do a conversion that is more or less undetectable. If we think social conservatives are irate from sharing restrooms with trannies, just wait until they begin discovering they just made out with one.

When this happens, regressives will be fighting hard against hand-held DNA testers being used on dates, and the 'bigots' who refuse to copulate with those not born the gender they want to boink/marry.

I don't need to quote the rest of your excellent post - we're totally on the same page and, as usual, you phrased it better than I would have. :thumbsup:

 

[Genx87]

But why not? What's the point if we're not making the next generation more capable of caring about important things by not caring about who is shitting next to them?

Because I dont think using kids as a lab experiment for issues adults are fighting about is the right thing to do.

 

[Ackmed]

You think someone who disregards laws of sexual assault and rape is concerned about laws dictating which bathroom their sex can use? This has to be the same kind of idiocy for Conservatives that Liberals have when they think a "gun free zone" sign makes them "safer". If someone mentally ill is hell bent on raping your sweet innocent little daughter then I hardly think something like a girls room sign and a birth sex only law is going to act as an effective deterrent.

It doesn't have to be sexual assault or rape. Just being in there or taking pics/vids is enough. Who said they had to be mentally ill to take advantage of this? About a year ago a perv was caught video recording women in the bathroom at our favorite restaurant, hiding in a stall. You don't think this happens often, and that the law will make it easier? All someone has to say is that they identify as male/female and if you say something against it people will call them a bigot. I am not saying it would be a plague that affected everyone, but I do think it would happen.

As I said, I don't have a problem with it aside from schools or other bathrooms for juveniles. Under 18 I do not think it should happen. Over 18 I personally don't have an issue with it. I think it will be taken advantage of, but what law isn't. I don't think this would go over well if say Gold's Gym adopted it. Because the bathroom is also a change room. Even if some dude dresses like a girl and acts like one, but has a dick and goes into the womens changing room it wouldn't go over well. I personally wouldn't care if a female who claims to be a male came into the mens room, I've been forced to be naked in front of many people before and am not self conscious about my body.

The money would have to come from somewhere if they made a third bathroom for transgender or unisex. They could charge for a public restroom, other countries do just that. I was in Germany and it costed a Euro or two. Had a guy standing there and a deposit machine with a little toll gate similar to subways.

 

[Blue_Max]

Is that not reason enough for unisex washrooms to be single occupancy? Such a simple solution, I don't know why the SJW crowd is rejecting it...

 

[waggy]

How many of you all have children? Do you really want a guy in the bathroom while your 8 year old is in there as well? Common sense is gone.

YOu are new here. So let me give you some advice. SOME here were justifing having a 30 or 40 yr old cross dresser who "identifies" as a 6 yr old girl playing with kids.

I got called a bigot and such because i said that there was no way i would let that guy come up and play with my kids.

So yeah some here will say its ok for a MAN to dress as a women and go into a GIRLS locker room to change. No matter what the girls think.

I always wondered why the transgender feelings trump the feelings of the girls who are forced to have him change in with them.

8-17 yr old girls have many issues going on emotionally. why they should be forced to have a guy change with them? never understood it.

 

[waggy]

It doesn't have to be sexual assault or rape. Just being in there or taking pics/vids is enough. Who said they had to be mentally ill to take advantage of this? About a year ago a perv was caught video recording women in the bathroom at our favorite restaurant, hiding in a stall. You don't think this happens often, and that the law will make it easier? All someone has to say is that they identify as male/female and if you say something against it people will call them a bigot. I am not saying it would be a plague that affected everyone, but I do think it would happen.

As I said, I don't have a problem with it aside from schools or other bathrooms for juveniles. Under 18 I do not think it should happen. Over 18 I personally don't have an issue with it. I think it will be taken advantage of, but what law isn't. I don't think this would go over well if say Gold's Gym adopted it. Because the bathroom is also a change room. Even if some dude dresses like a girl and acts like one, but has a dick and goes into the womens changing room it wouldn't go over well. I personally wouldn't care if a female who claims to be a male came into the mens room, I've been forced to be naked in front of many people before and am not self conscious about my body.

The money would have to come from somewhere if they made a third bathroom for transgender or unisex. They could charge for a public restroom, other countries do just that. I was in Germany and it costed a Euro or two. Had a guy standing there and a deposit machine with a little toll gate similar to subways.

/this

I have no trouble being naked in front of people. In between 20ish years of wrestling where you weigh in in undies in front of a bunch of people (yes even women). Also i have 4 sisters. I never had privacy lol

Saying that I wonder why so many ignore the fact that young women usually have a hard time with puberty. Why force them to change with men?

I agree with the 3 restrooms. men/women/whatever. I don't give a shit who i change with.

 

[sportage]

They claim it's all about bathrooms, but we know what is really going on here.
Republicans in republican controlled states "think" they have found their loophole around the latest GLBT legal advancements that the US Supreme Court ruled in favor of.
That like it or not, have became the law of the land.
And these guys, these republicans controlling state governments, they just never give it up.

Take minorities and race, for example.
It has been years and years since Rosa Parks, years since Martin Luther King had a dream, years since LBJ signed the civil right laws, and despite all that republicans in many of these republican controlled states have patiently waited for yet another chance to turn back the clock.

Their determination and dedication reminds me exactly of terrorist over in the Middle East.
The guys that patiently wait their turn, learn to fly jet airliners, mingle amongst us.
Waiting for their time and for their hour to finally arrive.
This is the definition of many republican controlled states now busy enacting laws to squash the vote and loophole around US Supreme Court rulings.

Terrorist can and will wait years, decades, for their chance to finally take revenge.
They just never give it up.
You hear about some terrorist attack over in Israel and wonder why now?
Then, later it comes out it was all about terrorist revenge for some shit that happened 50 years ago.
They can certainly hold onto a grudge, and so can those republicans all hell bent on turning back the clock.
Revenge against the civil rights, revenge against Rosa Parks, revenge against segregation.
They hate it all. They despise it all.
And the only thing you can count on, that they will never ever give it up.

And now we add to that mix LGBT rights.
So once again republicans come up with new terminology, new plans for terrorism against American freedom.
Freedoms granted by courts which terrorist, naturally, have no respect for.
Not as long as courts, in their mind, continue to rule against the change they seek.

But all this simply amounts to just another bump in the road.
A distraction.
And as so often with their misguided efforts, they always backfire big time when all is said and done.
All that their so called religious freedom laws will do is force the courts, and eventually the highest court in the land, to once again rule on.
And when the court speaks, it will rule to create and expand protections not currently available to the GLBT community.
Nation wide protections against discrimination in the workplace, against discrimination with housing, and what will really bite them bigots in the butt, rule to provide protections within the business community.

Yes... the butcher, the baker, and even the candle stick maker will by law must provide service to the entire LGBT community.
This is inevitable. And it's coming.
And why republicans constantly bring this down onto themselves is beyond me.
It's like they get a bug up their butt that just will not give up, and they scheme and plot around law and courts to enact their petty discrimination quirks on the state level, only to bring the wrath of the full US Supreme court down upon their heads.

Then they wonder, what the hell has happened to America?
And they promise to one day "make America great again", or to "bring back traditional American values" or to "protect religion freedom".

With all the problems plaguing America, the economy, the climate, terrorism, education, our deteriorating infrastructure, you'd think some of those republican controlled states would have better things to do.
More important issues to address.
But no.....
They patiently sit back, awaiting their chance to loophole around the system, pass their petty laws, with believing they can get away with it.
Only to once again shoot themselves in the foot.
Go figure....