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Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
Originally posted by: Zebo
Anyone have any real proof of creatine's efficacy? Not annecdotes, not celebrity endorsement but real scientific journal articles? I'd even go as liberal as Scientific American if you got it.

Text
 

Landroval

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2005
2,275
0
0
I've noticed a few people, when bulking on creatine, will claim their puffiness is water retention, when it is clear they are packing on a large amount of fat as well. So be sure to track progress carefully.
 

PunDogg

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2002
4,529
1
0
Fat? u will gain fat, if you do no cardio, the creatine if taken with out all the sugar that some companies add on, will not make you gain alot of fat. if this happend to you i assume u took cell-tech, or a high sugar one, and did not do cardio

Dogg
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,941
5
0
Originally posted by: Landroval
I've noticed a few people, when bulking on creatine, will claim their puffiness is water retention, when it is clear they are packing on a large amount of fat as well. So be sure to track progress carefully.

I don't know why creatine in and of itself would cause fat increase... it shouldn't. Some creatine products like Cell-techs have massive amount of sugar, but most don't.
 

dbot

Senior member
Jan 28, 2004
280
0
0

Yup, you're absolutley right bud. ESPECIALLY the stuff at GNC. Now, they carry good products, but christ, the markup on there stuff is absolutley insane.

Protein and Creatine. That's all you need, and you could probably do without the creatine. I use it because I do see results.

Proper diet and proper exercise is the key.

Or just screw it all and juice your way to being big. :D[/quote]

hahaha are you kidding me, the markup on some stuff is below the 10% mark, anystore you go into they will have large markups, its called retail. but to say everything is hugely marked up, is totally incorrect. My margin on alot of the products is next to nile. So please don;t tell me the mark up is insane.

Dogg[/quote]

Im sorry, but he's right. GNC is a total rip off. They sell all the stuff with a huge markup and then have 10% off sales. LOL

I go to Vitamin Shoppe and get almost everything way cheaper and I don't have to worry about their employees pushing GNC products down my throat.

 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
2,254
1
0
Ive been working out for the better part of 2 years now and while Ive seen small physical gains and putting up more weight while working out, I am not seeing an increase in muscle volume. I weigh about 185, and get about 160g of protein from milk+shakes everyday...considering I'm a vegetarian kind of complicates matters.
Lately Ive been thinking about startin creatine for muscle volume/mass, but have not done enough research on it to see if it does any damage to your health/body. Generally speaking, how effective has creatine been for you guys and how long soon after you started taking it did you see results?

Beans, peanuts, pistachios, and um.... ....

Stop being a vegetarian...Wild Salmon, Baked Chicken, Whey Protein, lean beef.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,064
14,790
146
Originally posted by: dbot

Im sorry, but he's right. GNC is a total rip off. They sell all the stuff with a huge markup and then have 10% off sales. LOL

I go to Vitamin Shoppe and get almost everything way cheaper and I don't have to worry about their employees pushing GNC products down my throat.

GNC can be competitive, but you have to be smart. Join their "gold club" and shop only during the first week of the month. Their prices then are virtually the same as the cheapest online places.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,064
14,790
146
Originally posted by: Looney
Originally posted by: Landroval
I've noticed a few people, when bulking on creatine, will claim their puffiness is water retention, when it is clear they are packing on a large amount of fat as well. So be sure to track progress carefully.

I don't know why creatine in and of itself would cause fat increase... it shouldn't. Some creatine products like Cell-techs have massive amount of sugar, but most don't.

For creatine to be effective you have to cause a huge insulin spike. That's why creatine can cause weight gain if you don't adjust your calorie intake.

Yes, most creatine is sold alone, with no uptake enhancers. But if you read the instructions, they instruct you to mix it with something sweet.

Cell-Tech is so effective because it mixes the creatine with 300 calories of dextrose. You can get the same effect much cheaper buying pure creatine and your own dextrose.
 

MaxDSP

Lifer
May 15, 2001
10,056
0
71
so what type of creatine do you guys use, and where do you usually get it from? I'm going to look towards including it in my daily protein shakes.
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,941
5
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Looney
Originally posted by: Landroval
I've noticed a few people, when bulking on creatine, will claim their puffiness is water retention, when it is clear they are packing on a large amount of fat as well. So be sure to track progress carefully.

I don't know why creatine in and of itself would cause fat increase... it shouldn't. Some creatine products like Cell-techs have massive amount of sugar, but most don't.

For creatine to be effective you have to cause a huge insulin spike. That's why creatine can cause weight gain if you don't adjust your calorie intake.

Yes, most creatine is sold alone, with no uptake enhancers. But if you read the instructions, they instruct you to mix it with something sweet.

Cell-Tech is so effective because it mixes the creatine with 300 calories of dextrose. You can get the same effect much cheaper buying pure creatine and your own dextrose.

I think that hypothesis is no longer true (or the effects just aren't as pronounced as people thought it was)... which is the reason why most creatine these days (stuff like Swole or V-12), no longer have sugar in them.
 

jmagnum

Member
Jul 7, 2005
78
0
0
I use whey protein and some stuff called creastack from gnc that works pretty well. And like someone else said, it is best to get a gnc gold card and shop the first of the week for some really good deals.
 

Woogoat

Member
Nov 27, 2000
166
0
0
Local shops / internet shops usually top GNC, even after the gold card discounts. Most smaller shops will match/beat prices just to keep the business. Also, keep an eye out on the dates of products from GNC, lot of times its near expiration (and most products have a huge shelf life).
 

Judgement

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
3,816
0
0
Originally posted by: Looney
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Looney
Originally posted by: Landroval
I've noticed a few people, when bulking on creatine, will claim their puffiness is water retention, when it is clear they are packing on a large amount of fat as well. So be sure to track progress carefully.

I don't know why creatine in and of itself would cause fat increase... it shouldn't. Some creatine products like Cell-techs have massive amount of sugar, but most don't.

For creatine to be effective you have to cause a huge insulin spike. That's why creatine can cause weight gain if you don't adjust your calorie intake.

Yes, most creatine is sold alone, with no uptake enhancers. But if you read the instructions, they instruct you to mix it with something sweet.

Cell-Tech is so effective because it mixes the creatine with 300 calories of dextrose. You can get the same effect much cheaper buying pure creatine and your own dextrose.

I think that hypothesis is no longer true (or the effects just aren't as pronounced as people thought it was)... which is the reason why most creatine these days (stuff like Swole or V-12), no longer have sugar in them.

Anyone else have any comments on the creatine/dextrose situation? Is the dextrose/sugar necessary to get a majority of the effect desired from the creatine? I always heard that it was, but I would be nice not to need to take all that sugar with it.
 

Landroval

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2005
2,275
0
0
Originally posted by: PunDogg
Fat? u will gain fat, if you do no cardio, the creatine if taken with out all the sugar that some companies add on, will not make you gain alot of fat. if this happend to you i assume u took cell-tech, or a high sugar one, and did not do cardio

Dogg


They got fat because they ate too much in the name of "bulking" and sttributed the puffiness all to creatine, when a lot of it was fat. Huge difference between water retention and fat gain. If you are bulking and your waist is growing a lot that's not a good sign ;)
 

kreactor

Senior member
Jan 3, 2005
709
0
76
is it good idea to scoop the creatine right into mouth and slosh it down w/ oj instead of having it stick to the glass?
 

EmperorIQ

Platinum Member
Sep 30, 2003
2,003
0
0
Originally posted by: dxkj
Originally posted by: PunDogg
I def. wouldn't even try that stuff, if you want to get bigger try NO-2, or creatine, and always with protein.
PM me if you want to learn more, i use alot of GNC and other products to lift, and other stuff, i also own a GNC Franchise

Dogg

I've heard people try to push enhancement products before, but is there any point for a beginning weight lifter who hasn't hit any walls yet? (other than protein of course)

probably not. I just started creatine now, and that's 1 year (and some change) after I began lifting.
 

EmperorIQ

Platinum Member
Sep 30, 2003
2,003
0
0
Originally posted by: purbeast0
Originally posted by: Mrvile
Why do you guys have to use supplements?

you don't need supplements, however you DO need protein for gaining muscle mass and maintaining it.

buying protein shakes as an alternative to actual food is just cheaper than getting the extra protein out of actual food.

try getting an extra 150g of protein out of chicken compared to 3 protein shakes, and just how much easier it is to prepare a protein shake than chicken, and you'll quickly see how much time and $$ is saved.

the quality of protein in shakes are better as well.
 

EmperorIQ

Platinum Member
Sep 30, 2003
2,003
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: MaxDSP
Ive been working out for the better part of 2 years now and while Ive seen small physical gains and putting up more weight while working out, I am not seeing an increase in muscle volume. I weigh about 185, and get about 160g of protein from milk+shakes everyday...considering I'm a vegetarian kind of complicates matters.
Lately Ive been thinking about startin creatine for muscle volume/mass, but have not done enough research on it to see if it does any damage to your health/body. Generally speaking, how effective has creatine been for you guys and how long soon after you started taking it did you see results?

I hav'nt tried it but kidney beans and brown rice are supposed to have all the protien one needs. But I'm sure protien shakes would be a nice supplement. Maybe take twice what's recommended and do power moves.. eg power cleans.. squats... dead lifts..stay away from the small movements which I think are tendon builders more than anything.

Beans are great.

My GF makes some meaty, beany chili and when she does, she makes enough for a week.

Every time she does, I make gains.

can I have the recipe? sounds good! please?
 

EmperorIQ

Platinum Member
Sep 30, 2003
2,003
0
0
Originally posted by: Tiamat
i have done decent without supplements. Just eat an 8oz steak, chicken breast or equivalent each day.

expensive though. 8oz steak? that'll run you roughly 4-5 bucks, and every day? that's a lot! whereas protein you can get a 5lb jug for 30 bucks, and it'll last a whole month or two
 

SVT Cobra

Lifer
Mar 29, 2005
13,264
2
0
Originally posted by: Zebo
Anyone have any real proof of creatine's efficacy? Not annecdotes, not celebrity endorsement but real scientific journal articles? I'd even go as liberal as Scientific American if you got it.


ive used creatine since 2000 in different cyclying periods(now the have ethel ester, no cycling yay)...and i have seen major results....and no side effects...just gotta inhale the water...

btw pleny of universities are conducting studies or have been since 1998,,,they are just waiting for long term effects.....so far so good
 

SVT Cobra

Lifer
Mar 29, 2005
13,264
2
0
Originally posted by: Landroval
Originally posted by: PunDogg
Fat? u will gain fat, if you do no cardio, the creatine if taken with out all the sugar that some companies add on, will not make you gain alot of fat. if this happend to you i assume u took cell-tech, or a high sugar one, and did not do cardio

Dogg


They got fat because they ate too much in the name of "bulking" and sttributed the puffiness all to creatine, when a lot of it was fat. Huge difference between water retention and fat gain. If you are bulking and your waist is growing a lot that's not a good sign ;)

exaclty.....so many people on here have said...im bulking, so i can go to mcdonalds now....that just pisses me off as a serious powerlifter since HS....

BTW creatine needs no insulin spike as someone said...insulin can be used to increase diffusion across mucsle tissues...but water, does not need any help in doing so... unlike lactic acid, nitric oxide ect.....
 

Mookow

Lifer
Apr 24, 2001
10,162
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Beans are great.

My GF makes some meaty, beany chili and when she does, she makes enough for a week.

Every time she does, I make gains.

Come on... post the recipe.
 

Nutdotnet

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2000
7,721
3
81
Originally posted by: PunDogg
Originally posted by: Nutdotnet
Originally posted by: Spamela
the stuff is undoubtedly overpriced, useless crap,
like 98% of supplements.

Yup, you're absolutley right bud. ESPECIALLY the stuff at GNC. Now, they carry good products, but christ, the markup on there stuff is absolutley insane.

Protein and Creatine. That's all you need, and you could probably do without the creatine. I use it because I do see results.

Proper diet and proper exercise is the key.

Or just screw it all and juice your way to being big. :D

hahaha are you kidding me, the markup on some stuff is below the 10% mark, anystore you go into they will have large markups, its called retail. but to say everything is hugely marked up, is totally incorrect. My margin on alot of the products is next to nile. So please don;t tell me the mark up is insane.

Dogg

Oh, but I will...and I can prove it to you too. Either A) the mark-up is INSANE, or you're not purchasing from the right place.

Since I haven't been to a GNC in well over two years I'll have to ask you: what's the price for a 5lb tub of ON 100% Whey? What, $40? $50? Or wait, better yet, what about MUSCLE MILK, for one of the 2.5lb tubs GNC charges between $30 and $40 right?

Well, there are countless places on the internet that sell the 100% Whey for $30 or less, and the Muscle Milk for $20.

I COULD be wrong on those since it was 2 years ago since I went.

However...I did just call one of the local GNCs...a 500gram bottle of Creatine was $18. A 1000gram bottle of Creatine online is $19...you do the math bud. The people who buy from GNC are either not internet-versed, or freaking stupid.
 

z0mb13

Lifer
May 19, 2002
18,106
1
76
on a side note, are supplements essential for weight lifting? (can you still gain muscle without taking supplements?)