For those who lift weights...

Judgement

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
3,816
0
0
Endothil-CR

The description sounds amazing, but so do most descriptions of what a supplement can do when its coming from the people who want to sell it to you. Just wondering if any of you have heard of side effects or can give first hand experience on how well it worked.

This is the first time I've even heard of the product and most of what I've found on the web is the same copy and pasted product plug.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
"Dr. Daniel B. Mowrey, Ph.D., Novex Biotech?s Director of Scientific Affairs,"

Ph.D = no medical training whatsoever, if it's even a real degree.

This non-doctor is also the author of their "research summary" PDF.

If you're lucky, the stuff is harmless and will only damage your bank account.
 

PunDogg

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2002
4,529
1
0
I def. wouldn't even try that stuff, if you want to get bigger try NO-2, or creatine, and always with protein.
PM me if you want to learn more, i use alot of GNC and other products to lift, and other stuff, i also own a GNC Franchise

Dogg
 

dxkj

Lifer
Feb 17, 2001
11,772
2
81
Originally posted by: PunDogg
I def. wouldn't even try that stuff, if you want to get bigger try NO-2, or creatine, and always with protein.
PM me if you want to learn more, i use alot of GNC and other products to lift, and other stuff, i also own a GNC Franchise

Dogg

I've heard people try to push enhancement products before, but is there any point for a beginning weight lifter who hasn't hit any walls yet? (other than protein of course)
 

eigen

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2003
4,000
1
0
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
"Dr. Daniel B. Mowrey, Ph.D., Novex Biotech?s Director of Scientific Affairs,"

Ph.D = no medical training whatsoever, if it's even a real degree.

This non-doctor is also the author of their "research summary" PDF.

If you're lucky, the stuff is harmless and will only damage your bank account.

He could have a degree in Biochemistry.I really dont trust many supplements Of course my ex-wife does have a degree in Biochemistry and had done drug development.She just shakes her head and laughs at most supplements.
 

Nimloth

Senior member
Mar 5, 2001
808
0
76
it says that you need to switch from a full-body workout to excercising one muscle group to exhaustion... which is essentially a proper way to gain muscle mass. Therefore product is basically a really expensive placebo.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Originally posted by: eigen
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
"Dr. Daniel B. Mowrey, Ph.D., Novex Biotech?s Director of Scientific Affairs,"

Ph.D = no medical training whatsoever, if it's even a real degree.

This non-doctor is also the author of their "research summary" PDF.

If you're lucky, the stuff is harmless and will only damage your bank account.

He could have a degree in Biochemistry.I really dont trust many supplements Of course my ex-wife does have a degree in Biochemistry and had done drug development.She just shakes her head and laughs at most supplements.
Good point, but if he had a Biochemistry degree they'd almost certainly be saying so. It's much more likely he has a Sociology or other soft-science Ph.D, or got an internet "degree."
 

PunDogg

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2002
4,529
1
0
Originally posted by: dxkj
Originally posted by: PunDogg
I def. wouldn't even try that stuff, if you want to get bigger try NO-2, or creatine, and always with protein.
PM me if you want to learn more, i use alot of GNC and other products to lift, and other stuff, i also own a GNC Franchise

Dogg

I've heard people try to push enhancement products before, but is there any point for a beginning weight lifter who hasn't hit any walls yet? (other than protein of course)

as your said, the protein is always there, but the N0-2 and creatine, you can take those anytime beg. or even advanded user. useally what i tell people is if you are just starting out with creatine, try taking after you work out, instead for before, do this for about a month or soo till you figure out how you lift, and also how the creatine affects you. The N0-2, you can take at anytime, yeah it can help break walls, but it can help beginners too.

the best i found for intermediate to advanced lifters(people who have been hitting the gym frequetly, for at least 1.5-2 yrs) is take N0-2 and creatine together. I take a creatine/arginine powder mix, its called TRAC, works really well

Dogg
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,736
565
126
Like many amazing new supplements, I would imagine the only decernable effect this one has is an increase in sh|t volume and frequency.
 

PunDogg

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2002
4,529
1
0
Originally posted by: eigen
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
"Dr. Daniel B. Mowrey, Ph.D., Novex Biotech?s Director of Scientific Affairs,"

Ph.D = no medical training whatsoever, if it's even a real degree.

This non-doctor is also the author of their "research summary" PDF.

If you're lucky, the stuff is harmless and will only damage your bank account.

He could have a degree in Biochemistry.I really dont trust many supplements Of course my ex-wife does have a degree in Biochemistry and had done drug development.She just shakes her head and laughs at most supplements.

Yeah there are alot of supplements that are just fluff, and don;t do anything, but alot of supplements, i would say, are better than reg. meds. cuz they have no side affects, cost less, and give better results. But these you must do research in, my grandfather had heart problems, high blood pressure, high cholestrol, u name it. We opened our GNC, started him on a vit./herb regimine, this is affter takeing lipator, and those other drugs with out success and many sideeffects, he took our regimine for 8 months, does not need to take any drugs, everything is back to normal

Dogg
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,942
5,819
126
Originally posted by: Mrvile
Why do you guys have to use supplements?

you don't need supplements, however you DO need protein for gaining muscle mass and maintaining it.

buying protein shakes as an alternative to actual food is just cheaper than getting the extra protein out of actual food.

try getting an extra 150g of protein out of chicken compared to 3 protein shakes, and just how much easier it is to prepare a protein shake than chicken, and you'll quickly see how much time and $$ is saved.
 

eigen

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2003
4,000
1
0
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Originally posted by: eigen
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
"Dr. Daniel B. Mowrey, Ph.D., Novex Biotech?s Director of Scientific Affairs,"

Ph.D = no medical training whatsoever, if it's even a real degree.

This non-doctor is also the author of their "research summary" PDF.

If you're lucky, the stuff is harmless and will only damage your bank account.

He could have a degree in Biochemistry.I really dont trust many supplements Of course my ex-wife does have a degree in Biochemistry and had done drug development.She just shakes her head and laughs at most supplements.
Good point, but if he had a Biochemistry degree they'd almost certainly be saying so. It's much more likely he has a Sociology or other soft-science Ph.D, or got an internet "degree."


True.The only thing my wife would let me buy was protein.She said the science behind most of the other stuff is flimsy.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
"Dr. Daniel B. Mowrey, Ph.D., Novex Biotech?s Director of Scientific Affairs,"

Ph.D = no medical training whatsoever, if it's even a real degree.

This non-doctor is also the author of their "research summary" PDF.

If you're lucky, the stuff is harmless and will only damage your bank account.

No offense dave you usually pretty smart but here you're clueless. PhD's in pharmocology, biochem, chem and biology invent most everymedication ever invented not MD's.
 

PunDogg

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2002
4,529
1
0
Originally posted by: eigen
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Originally posted by: eigen
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
"Dr. Daniel B. Mowrey, Ph.D., Novex Biotech?s Director of Scientific Affairs,"

Ph.D = no medical training whatsoever, if it's even a real degree.

This non-doctor is also the author of their "research summary" PDF.

If you're lucky, the stuff is harmless and will only damage your bank account.

He could have a degree in Biochemistry.I really dont trust many supplements Of course my ex-wife does have a degree in Biochemistry and had done drug development.She just shakes her head and laughs at most supplements.
Good point, but if he had a Biochemistry degree they'd almost certainly be saying so. It's much more likely he has a Sociology or other soft-science Ph.D, or got an internet "degree."


True.The only thing my wife would let me buy was protein.She said the science behind most of the other stuff is flimsy.

Flimsy???? Creatine has had over 300 studies done on it, not little studies with 10-15 people like studies that include hundreds of people. Everyone had come back and said it is completly safe, and every effective, hell your body makes small amounts of it to begine with. Vit. C, E, and B, all have had even more studies. Docs. even recommend a multi-vit. the research is there, people just don't open there eyes to it.

Dogg
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
I don't have a mass gain problem being a mesomorph..I look at weights and gain 2" on my bicepts so all i do now is what's hardest for me..run... anyway my little brother was really scrony but could run like the wind he tried everything.. pouders supplements to no avail. Until I set him up with a workout for his scrony body type.

a) no areobix
b) 4 reps x 3 sets, with your max.. Helper is needed on three reps obviously and it should almost kill you every lift.

He ballooned.

Point is supplements only make your wallet lighter, every body type is different and they only way to get the response you want is to work it according to proper demands. Want mass build mass by tearing the crap out of your muscles with low heavy weight. Want difinition build difinition with areobic weights (12-20 reps) or aerobic activity like boxing or running. No easy solutions as usual.

In general you should do the exact opposite of what you like when working out. Like running? then lift heavy. Like lifting heavy? Then Run.
 

eigen

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2003
4,000
1
0
Originally posted by: PunDogg
Originally posted by: eigen
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Originally posted by: eigen
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
"Dr. Daniel B. Mowrey, Ph.D., Novex Biotech?s Director of Scientific Affairs,"

Ph.D = no medical training whatsoever, if it's even a real degree.

This non-doctor is also the author of their "research summary" PDF.

If you're lucky, the stuff is harmless and will only damage your bank account.

He could have a degree in Biochemistry.I really dont trust many supplements Of course my ex-wife does have a degree in Biochemistry and had done drug development.She just shakes her head and laughs at most supplements.
Good point, but if he had a Biochemistry degree they'd almost certainly be saying so. It's much more likely he has a Sociology or other soft-science Ph.D, or got an internet "degree."


True.The only thing my wife would let me buy was protein.She said the science behind most of the other stuff is flimsy.

Flimsy???? Creatine has had over 300 studies done on it, not little studies with 10-15 people like studies that include hundreds of people. Everyone had come back and said it is completly safe, and every effective, hell your body makes small amounts of it to begine with. Vit. C, E, and B, all have had even more studies. Docs. even recommend a multi-vit. the research is there, people just don't open there eyes to it.

Dogg


No I take creatine and I agree on the results.But lots of other stuff that one see.Like glutamine and other amino acids.
 

Mrvile

Lifer
Oct 16, 2004
14,066
1
0
Originally posted by: purbeast0
Originally posted by: Mrvile
Why do you guys have to use supplements?

you don't need supplements, however you DO need protein for gaining muscle mass and maintaining it.

buying protein shakes as an alternative to actual food is just cheaper than getting the extra protein out of actual food.

try getting an extra 150g of protein out of chicken compared to 3 protein shakes, and just how much easier it is to prepare a protein shake than chicken, and you'll quickly see how much time and $$ is saved.

I realize that, but some supplements you need to be careful with. Even stuff like creatine you need to take carefully or you'll screw up your body. I'd rather just stick with eating meat and beans and be safe than sorry.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
"Dr. Daniel B. Mowrey, Ph.D., Novex Biotech?s Director of Scientific Affairs,"

Ph.D = no medical training whatsoever, if it's even a real degree.

This non-doctor is also the author of their "research summary" PDF.

If you're lucky, the stuff is harmless and will only damage your bank account.

No offense dave you usually pretty smart but here you're clueless. PhD's in pharmocology, biochem, chem and biology invent most everymedication ever invented not MD's.
D'oh! None taken, I'll slink off back to General Hardware :) :eek:

I'll still suspect this particular Ph.D's credentials though since I didn't see any mention of a hard-science degree on the website. But then I'm used to papers in journals which usually include a bio paragraph.
 

eigen

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2003
4,000
1
0
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
"Dr. Daniel B. Mowrey, Ph.D., Novex Biotech?s Director of Scientific Affairs,"

Ph.D = no medical training whatsoever, if it's even a real degree.

This non-doctor is also the author of their "research summary" PDF.

If you're lucky, the stuff is harmless and will only damage your bank account.

No offense dave you usually pretty smart but here you're clueless. PhD's in pharmocology, biochem, chem and biology invent most everymedication ever invented not MD's.
D'oh! None taken, I'll slink off back to General Hardware :) :eek:

I'll still suspect this particular Ph.D's credentials though since I didn't see any mention of a hard-science degree on the website. But then I'm used to papers in journals which usually include a bio paragraph.


I suspect you are right.
 

MaxDSP

Lifer
May 15, 2001
10,056
0
71
Ive been working out for the better part of 2 years now and while Ive seen small physical gains and putting up more weight while working out, I am not seeing an increase in muscle volume. I weigh about 185, and get about 160g of protein from milk+shakes everyday...considering I'm a vegetarian kind of complicates matters.
Lately Ive been thinking about startin creatine for muscle volume/mass, but have not done enough research on it to see if it does any damage to your health/body. Generally speaking, how effective has creatine been for you guys and how long soon after you started taking it did you see results?
 

eigen

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2003
4,000
1
0
Originally posted by: MaxDSP
Ive been working out for the better part of 2 years now and while Ive seen small physical gains and putting up more weight while working out, I am not seeing an increase in muscle volume. I weigh about 185, and get about 160g of protein from milk+shakes everyday...considering I'm a vegetarian kind of complicates matters.
Lately Ive been thinking about startin creatine for muscle volume/mass, but have not done enough research on it to see if it does any damage to your health/body. Generally speaking, how effective has creatine been for you guys and how long soon after you started taking it did you see results?

How much do you eat.I dont care about your shakes and crap.How much real food do you put into your body.You dont even want to know how much I eat.
 

Landroval

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2005
2,275
0
0
Originally posted by: Judgement
Endothil-CR

The description sounds amazing, but so do most descriptions of what a supplement can do when its coming from the people who want to sell it to you. Just wondering if any of you have heard of side effects or can give first hand experience on how well it worked.

This is the first time I've even heard of the product and most of what I've found on the web is the same copy and pasted product plug.


It's a scam.
 

MaxDSP

Lifer
May 15, 2001
10,056
0
71
Originally posted by: eigen
Originally posted by: MaxDSP
Ive been working out for the better part of 2 years now and while Ive seen small physical gains and putting up more weight while working out, I am not seeing an increase in muscle volume. I weigh about 185, and get about 160g of protein from milk+shakes everyday...considering I'm a vegetarian kind of complicates matters.
Lately Ive been thinking about startin creatine for muscle volume/mass, but have not done enough research on it to see if it does any damage to your health/body. Generally speaking, how effective has creatine been for you guys and how long soon after you started taking it did you see results?

How much do you eat.I dont care about your shakes and crap.How much real food do you put into your body.You dont even want to know how much I eat.

Breakfast lunch and dinner....I think I eat enough, and often choose "health-ier" stuff instead of pizza, fries, etc. I cant really quantify how much I eat, as most of my dinner consists of Indian food, loaded with carbs, some protein, and fat. Lunch usually consists of a sub or chipotle burrito, etc. Breakfast is usually bagel with crm cheese and coffee.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Originally posted by: dxkj
Originally posted by: PunDogg
I def. wouldn't even try that stuff, if you want to get bigger try NO-2, or creatine, and always with protein.
PM me if you want to learn more, i use alot of GNC and other products to lift, and other stuff, i also own a GNC Franchise

Dogg

I've heard people try to push enhancement products before, but is there any point for a beginning weight lifter who hasn't hit any walls yet? (other than protein of course)

Usually, No.