For the Left- Going Tea Party?

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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
The Tea Party was grassroots opposition to Obama. There were almost certainly far more birthers (ie racists) in the crowd than anyone actually against right wing principles. It's hardly some great coincidence that the birther-king heads the party now.

For anyone with doubt about the racism: http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box...party-express-defends-cruz-on-birther-charges. Zero surprise.

Bullshit. The Teahad was astroturf, a rebranding of Repub conservatism-

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Tea_Party

It was also preceded by decades of hate de gubmint right wing agitprop.

And... it got away from them, took on a whole new dimension with the rise of Trump.

Lots of people tried to warn 'em that they were playing with fire, summoning spirits best left sleeping but they weren't skeered, just foolish & arrogant. They thought they could control it.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
Bullshit. The Teahad was astroturf, a rebranding of Repub conservatism-

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Tea_Party

It was also preceded by decades of hate de gubmint right wing agitprop.

And... it got away from them, took on a whole new dimension with the rise of Trump.

Lots of people tried to warn 'em that they were playing with fire, summoning spirits best left sleeping but they weren't skeered, just foolish & arrogant. They thought they could control it.

Chicken/egg. And the same could be said of trump/birtherism: which came first, the racism or pandering to it?
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,242
14,243
136
The Tea Party Right had one consistent theme, being irate. Facts didn't matter.

Now I'm seeing a trend towards this with some (not all) of the left. I've no doubt that Trump is not a person fit for office. I don't agree with his policies and execution of them. I don't like anything about him at all.

That said, there has been a tendency of some to construct arguments for impeachment, making statements about law that are, well absurd. TPR would say that Obama violated the Constitution and the response should be "not until a court makes a final decision". The TPL? Same thing.

Naturally anyone can say pretty much anything, but the TPR didn't help in the long run. It provided the means for people to dismiss them wholesale even if they did have a point.

I suggest the TPL will have the same effect.

Want to remove Trump? Go about it rationally with facts as they are, not as people would like them to be.

You're going to have to be more specific about which criticisms of Trump you think are over the top and/or unjustified. From where I sit, it's very difficult to over-state the case when it comes to criticisms of Trump. Which ones are we talking about here? His alleged collusion with, or blackmail by, Russia? The conflicts of interest in his business holdings? His daily unjustified attacks on the free press? His unrelenting torrent of lies? His constant fear-mongering over fictional or exaggerated problems? His nativist know-nothingism?

Perhaps it's not that other people should be less concerned about these things. Maybe you should be more concerned, especially since you seem to acknowledge at least some of these issues. I don't think now is the time to be going after his critics. Trump is a serious threat to our democracy and our way of life. I'm not being hysterical. I'm totally sober, and I'm right.

So far as impeachment goes, it's too soon for that to actually happen. It isn't too soon to start discussing it. I went 8 years of Bush's terrible presidency and never raised the issue even once. With Trump I think the discussion is pertinent already.
 
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agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
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86
You're going to have to be more specific about which criticisms of Trump you think are over the top and/or unjustified. From where I sit, it's very difficult to over-state the case when it comes to criticisms of Trump. Which ones are we talking about here? His alleged collusion with, or blackmail by, Russia? The conflicts of interest in his business holdings? His daily unjustified attacks on the free press? His unrelenting torrent of lies?

Perhaps it's not that other people should be less concerned about these things. Maybe you should be more concerned, especially since you seem to acknowledge at least some of these issues. I don't think now is the time to be going after his critics. Trump is a serious threat to our democracy and our way of life. I'm not being hysterical. I'm totally sober, and I'm right.

So far as impeachment goes, it's too soon for that to actually happen. It isn't too soon to start discussing it. I went 8 years of Bush's terrible presidency and never raised the issue even once. With Trump I think the discussion is pertinent already.

Can't you see our fair and balanced independent is busy, researching how the libtards are behind it all.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Chicken/egg. And the same could be said of trump/birtherism: which came first, the racism or pandering to it?

Please. It's not like the Repub base thinks up the stuff they believe in on their own. They've been expertly played at an emotional level for decades. It's always Birther/Benghazi time over in Republican land & has been for over 20 years.

It just got worse over the last 8 years. Repubs created the basis for a leadership cult and didn't provide a leader. Seeing that, Trump grabbed the mic, pushed 'em into the orchestra pit & proceeded to bury Clinton under a mountain of slime.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
Please. It's not like the Repub base thinks up the stuff they believe in on their own. They've been expertly played at an emotional level for decades. It's always Birther/Benghazi time over in Republican land & has been for over 20 years.

It just got worse over the last 8 years. Repubs created the basis for a leadership cult and didn't provide a leader. Seeing that, Trump grabbed the mic, pushed 'em into the orchestra pit & proceeded to bury Clinton under a mountain of slime.

I'm sure all that race resentment which drove birthers into the streets was nothing but a ploy by the RNC.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
I'm sure all that race resentment which drove birthers into the streets was nothing but a ploy by the RNC.

It's always been there, maybe always will be. Depending on where you look, racism is as American as Mom & apple pie. Repub leaders do their best to keep the fire burning because it divides us & makes us more vulnerable to the top down class warfare they wage against the rest of America. It just kinda got away from them. LBJ was right, you know-

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

We've been emptying our pockets for 35 years. Trump & the Repubs intend to get whatever we have left, too.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
You're going to have to be more specific about which criticisms of Trump you think are over the top and/or unjustified. From where I sit, it's very difficult to over-state the case when it comes to criticisms of Trump. Which ones are we talking about here? His alleged collusion with, or blackmail by, Russia? The conflicts of interest in his business holdings? His daily unjustified attacks on the free press? His unrelenting torrent of lies? His constant fear-mongering over fictional or exaggerated problems? His nativist know-nothingism?

Perhaps it's not that other people should be less concerned about these things. Maybe you should be more concerned, especially since you seem to acknowledge at least some of these issues. I don't think now is the time to be going after his critics. Trump is a serious threat to our democracy and our way of life. I'm not being hysterical. I'm totally sober, and I'm right.

So far as impeachment goes, it's too soon for that to actually happen. It isn't too soon to start discussing it. I went 8 years of Bush's terrible presidency and never raised the issue even once. With Trump I think the discussion is pertinent already.

If I didn't make myself clear this isn't about Trump. There's nothing good about him. What I am referring to is the demonstrated attitude of inherent correctness granted to oneself. Remember when Trump announced that those close to him would be participating in government related issues? I do and the sentiment at that time on the part of some was that Trump could not do that. No doubt at all. Didn't work out that way did it.

That is what I'm referring to, the cocksure certainty that Trump is doing the illegal. I've seen it suggested that Trump's EO is grounds for impeachment. No it is not. Because someone does something that we do not like in no way means a crime has been committed even if the act is ultimately struck down in court and I know you know that. Most people here haven't seriously suggested it either, yet what was once a rational group is rather fraying around the edges and I'm not the first to notice it. Ultimately that isn't helpful.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,759
10,066
136
what was once a rational group is rather fraying around the edges and I'm not the first to notice it. Ultimately that isn't helpful.

The folks you're speaking to don't see it, will fervently deny it, and are neck deep. Like asking the Tea Party not to hold the debt hostage.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,242
14,243
136
If I didn't make myself clear this isn't about Trump. There's nothing good about him. What I am referring to is the demonstrated attitude of inherent correctness granted to oneself. Remember when Trump announced that those close to him would be participating in government related issues? I do and the sentiment at that time on the part of some was that Trump could not do that. No doubt at all. Didn't work out that way did it.

That is what I'm referring to, the cocksure certainty that Trump is doing the illegal. I've seen it suggested that Trump's EO is grounds for impeachment. No it is not. Because someone does something that we do not like in no way means a crime has been committed even if the act is ultimately struck down in court and I know you know that. Most people here haven't seriously suggested it either, yet what was once a rational group is rather fraying around the edges and I'm not the first to notice it. Ultimately that isn't helpful.

No, I agree that his travel ban, if that is what you mean by "EO," is not grounds for impeachment. However, you should read up on what constitutes grounds for impeachment. Unfortunately, it's practically anything, and quite vague. That leaves open the door for political opponents to bandy about the idea of impeachment before there is arguably enough evidence to make it appropriate.

However, most of those assertions stem from serious concerns about what we've already learned. There is much reason in this case to suspect unethical and criminal misconduct here. You should read up on his known business conflicts, like his hotel renting property from the federal government, making him simultaneously landlord and tenant. Trump could divest himself, but hasn't. There are many other issues with his business interests, too numerous to catalogue them all here.

Most serious in my opinion are his tries with Russia and Putin. They are increasingly difficult to ignore with each new revelation. First we have him taking the unprecedented position of praising a hostile foreign dictator with US approval ratings of about 10%, meaning he took this position to his political disadvantage. A surprising and bizarre position for him to take which has never been adequately explained. Then we find out Russia has hacked democratic organizations and seeded fake news into US social media to help Trump win. Then we have Trump dishonestly denying that they have done this. Then we see this dossier compiled by a respected MI-6 operative which contains numerous specific allegations about Trump being blackmailed by Putin and of colluding with the Kremlin during his campaign. Then we hear Trump defending Putin in response to a softball question from a fellow conservative asking him to condemn Putin's assassination of political opponents. All he had to do was condemn these killings and it might have reassured people, but he just couldn't do it. Then we hear that at least part of the Steele dossier has been verified by the CIA through analysis of intercepted communiques. Now we discover that his National Security Adviser, before Trump took office, promised the Russian ambassador that Obama's sanctions against Russia for the hacking would be rescinded. Forget about the fact that Flynn lied about it. Why was this promise made at all?

We aren't quite there with impeachment yet, but we could be there soon. It isn't premature to start discussing it now. I don't say this lightly, and it has nothing to do with disagreeing with Trump's policies. I disagreed with nearly all of Bush's policies, and never thought for one second that impeachment was appropriate.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
The folks you're speaking to don't see it, will fervently deny it, and are neck deep. Like asking the Tea Party not to hold the debt hostage.

Please. I haven't taken that POV at all. Calls for Trump's impeachment are premature at best, more like trolling by the same formula as the alt-right.

What Trump has been doing may well be perfectly legal but that doesn't mean it's right. Fucking over green card holders isn't right. Fucking over American kids by deporting their bread winners isn't right. Fucking over people who depend on the ACA isn't right. Fucking over the environment to serve the fossil fuel industry isn't right. Fucking over the public school system isn't right. Perpetrating the voter fraud hoax isn't right.

Sending out henchmen to tell us that the power of the president will not be questioned is damnably wrong & we all know it.
 
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agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
It's always been there, maybe always will be. Depending on where you look, racism is as American as Mom & apple pie. Repub leaders do their best to keep the fire burning because it divides us & makes us more vulnerable to the top down class warfare they wage against the rest of America. It just kinda got away from them. LBJ was right, you know-

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

We've been emptying our pockets for 35 years. Trump & the Repubs intend to get whatever we have left, too.

It's a mutually beneficial relationship to vote in politicians who help you keep on top of the ethnic status totem. Same as for white welfare.

The folks you're speaking to don't see it, will fervently deny it, and are neck deep. Like asking the Tea Party not to hold the debt hostage.

Leftards are da Real Tea Party. @Hayabusa Rider certainly agrees.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Of course. It is all part of the Divide and Conquer narrative.

The elites have divided the masses into sides and are then ruling over them. The winners will be the elite politicians, corporations and others that are in charge.

You have the following ideologies and groups fighting each other:

  • Whites vs Blacks
  • Christians vs Muslims
  • Liberals vs Conservatives
  • Liberal populists vs traditional Liberals
  • Anti-abortion people vs Pro-abortion people
  • Atheists vs Religious people
  • Gays vs Straights
  • Transexuals vs Straights
  • Traditional bathroom vs "modern" inclusive bathroom
  • On and on

When we are all fighting over these issues all the time, the only winners are the ones at the top.
 
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Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
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That is what I'm referring to, the cocksure certainty that Trump is doing the illegal. I've seen it suggested that Trump's EO is grounds for impeachment. No it is not. Because someone does something that we do not like in no way means a crime has been committed even if the act is ultimately struck down in court and I know you know that. Most people here haven't seriously suggested it either, yet what was once a rational group is rather fraying around the edges and I'm not the first to notice it. Ultimately that isn't helpful.

Are you going to link to that or are we supposed to defend whatever straw man you come up with?
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
Of course. It is all part of the Divide and Conquer narrative.

The elites have divided the masses into sides and are then ruling over them. The winners will be the elite politicians, corporations and others that are in charge.

You have the following ideologies and groups fighting each other:

  • Whites vs Blacks
  • Christians vs Muslims
  • Liberals vs Conservatives
  • Liberal populists vs traditional Liberals
  • Anti-abortion people vs Pro-abortion people
  • Atheists vs Religious people
  • Gays vs Straights
  • Transexuals vs Straights
  • Traditional bathroom vs "modern" inclusive bathroom
  • On and on

When we are all fighting over these issues all the time, the only winners are the ones at the top.

Damn those browns and gays and shit are so goddamn stupid to oppose them white nationalists, they need to learn how to get along.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Damn those browns and gays and shit are so goddamn stupid to oppose them white nationalists, they need to learn how to get along.
These people divide themselves by belonging to certain groups. It makes it easier for the leaders to control them that way.

It doesn't matter if its white nationalists or black nationalists.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
These people divide themselves by belonging to certain groups. It makes it easier for the leaders to control them that way.

It doesn't matter if its white nationalists or black nationalists.

Yeah those blacks should've just joined white nationalism. No wonder they're all poor and shit, can't even figure out this simple life tip.
 
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raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Yeah those blacks should've just joined white nationalism. No wonder they're all poor and shit, can't even figure out this simple life tip.
I don't know where to begin to respond to this. Are we speaking different languages?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Are you going to link to that or are we supposed to defend whatever straw man you come up with?


I've read it on various sites and social media. How large a proportion of people that is I don't know, but it would not do to see it grow. Sorry I didn't write it all down for you, but you could insist it never happens if you like. I do recall a pre edit post from someone here that removal was necessary, and the law isn't important regarding it.

Would you care say that never happened?

I'm not affiliated with any party and I think the ideologies as practiced are limiting and really not all that. Seems to be a bunch of children with the Reps being far more so. If you think your side is inherently superior and infallible then hey I won't stop you from believing that. Live the dream.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
I don't know where to begin to respond to this. Are we speaking different languages?

Take some time to ponder just how objectively dumb what you said was.

I'm not affiliated with any party and I think the ideologies as practiced are limiting and really not all that. Seems to be a bunch of children with the Reps being far more so. If you think your side is inherently superior and infallible then hey I won't stop you from believing that. Live the dream.

Fitting philosophy for objectively inferior people.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
I don't know where to begin to respond to this. Are we speaking different languages?

He's revealing himself as a troll just here to stir the shit. He certainly doesn't reflect the sentiments of Libs & Progressives in general. He seeks to inflame conservatives, not to reason with them.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
He's revealing himself as a troll just here to stir the shit. He certainly doesn't reflect the sentiments of Libs & Progressives in general. He seeks to inflame conservatives, not to reason with them.

Meanwhile you simply keep repeating how stupid they are for following Republican leadership over the years. So much better. <Sheesh>
 
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raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Sometimes communicating on the internet is difficult. One person can totally take another person's text in a totally wrong way, whether intentionally, unintentionally or just because he's so heavily conditioned. That's like speaking a foreign language and therefore, communication comes to a halt.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Of course. It is all part of the Divide and Conquer narrative.

The elites have divided the masses into sides and are then ruling over them. The winners will be the elite politicians, corporations and others that are in charge.

You have the following ideologies and groups fighting each other:

  • Whites vs Blacks
  • Christians vs Muslims
  • Liberals vs Conservatives
  • Liberal populists vs traditional Liberals
  • Anti-abortion people vs Pro-abortion people
  • Atheists vs Religious people
  • Gays vs Straights
  • Transexuals vs Straights
  • Traditional bathroom vs "modern" inclusive bathroom
  • On and on

You forgot

  • Wealthy vs Everybody Else

That is the fight I am most interested in and by a rather wide margin. We are getting our asses kicked in this fight and we are losing our country because of it.