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For all you Audiophiles, I have a speaker wireing question.

N

Nebakanezzar

Senior member
hey all,

I need some more advice. i got a new home theater setup and i want to know if i should bi-wire my speakers, and if so, how is that done?

here is what i got :

PSB SILVERi (21/2 way mains)
PSB C6 (center)
PSB Stratus mini's (rear)
Dennon AVR4800
Velodyne HGS12 (sub)

this whole Bi-wire thing is new to me, i understand the concept, but i dont know how to impliment it.

thanx for the help!
 
well, bi-wiring is usually bypassed by running one speaker wire to the speaker and then using the little "jumper" between the two posts. i assume this is what your PSB's are doing now?

usually, one terminal leads to the higher end (tweeters etc) and one leads to the lower end (woofers) and that way if you want to drive each part of the speaker independently you can do that.

but i assume your denon receiver has only got 5 outputs , therefore you have two options. one is to do as i said above and use the jumper, or you can do what my roomate does which is run two indpendent speaker wires (both from the same output on the amp) into each of the posts on the speakers. if you think about it, this is the same as using that jumper, but instead gives you two paths for your signal.

truthfully, there is no real adavantage to either method, so i'd suggest getting 1 nice pair of speaker cables and just using a jumper to bi-wire.

did any of this make sense?

 
It depends on the type of speaker wire you are going to use. You'll need a double-run to each speaker to do it. More often than not it will yield a better quality sound. It looks like you have some quality components to start-off with, so don't skimp too much on speaker cables! I use Audioquest Midnight + for the bass end, and Audioquest CV-4 for the highs and it sounds great! You should visit here: AudioAsylum
They have TONS of info on it, as well as, the forums will give you great feedback and advice. Most of the process is matching cables and components to each other and to the sound you like. Good luck!!

-Christopher

🙂
 
hey guys,

that was kinda my delema, i couldnt figure out where to connect the second run. what about the speaker output from the sub?
 
i would hope your using the sub output on your receiver yes? so you should NOT be hooking your speakers up through the sub. that's a bad idea if you can run an RCA cable from your sub out to the subwoofer.

don't your psb's have 2 binding posts? one marked high and one marked low for instance? and did they come with a jumper already installed?
 
Unless your speakers were designed for biwiring initially, you can't biwire them.

Your speaker has to have 2 sets of binding posts on it, one for the highs and one for the mids/lows.

dm
 
Also...

Remember that if you speakers have 4 posts for wires that you receiver will only have 2 per speaker. Get a nice guage wire that has 4 wires in it so they can split at your speakers. Also be sure to invest in some nice banana plugs for your receiver and speakers. With that said..go down and ask your local shop exactly what to do...they will have all the answers if you are still confused by all of us.
 
hey,

yeah my speakers have 4 binding posts. and yeah im connecting my sub to the receiver using the rca jack, but there are also speaker outs on the sub. if you use one cable from the receiver to bi-wire the speaker, dont you bypass the speakers cross over when you remove the jumper on the binding posts? if so, how does the cable know which signal to send to the highs and lows?
 


<< yeah my speakers have 4 binding posts. and yeah im connecting my sub to the receiver using the rca jack, but there are also speaker outs on the sub. if you use one cable from the receiver to bi-wire the speaker, dont you bypass the speakers cross over when you remove the jumper on the binding posts? if so, how does the cable know which signal to send to the highs and lows? >>



First, don't use the speaker outs on the sub, just connect it via the RCA cable and forget about it. It sounds like you bought a lot of gear, and really have no clue what to do with it, my question to you is, why?? Read up on this stuff first, before you just go blindly buying stuff.

When you bi-wire, NO you do not bypass the crossover, because as you said, the speaker cable does not KNOW which frequencies to send to which speakers. If you really have no clue what you're doing, and that's more or less what it sounds like, just forget about bi-wiring your speakers and hook them up normally. You won't notice that much of a difference anyhow, especially since you're very new to home audio it seems.

dm
 
you're just basically running two speaker wires in parallel. it's sorta like running 1 big speaker wire. running two is IDENTICAL to using the jumper, so your'e by no means messing with the crossover.

your sending a full range signal to both the high and low inputs, and they each have individual crossovers so the receiver has nothing to do with deciding &quot;which wire gets which signal&quot;

 
Why bother? It really makes minimal difference according to most blinded testing.

I believe those PSBs come with a jumper to both speaker post sets. My speakers come with dual sets of posts for biwiring, but I think the whole concept of biwiring is hocus pocus, so I don't bother. Just get some good thick guage wire and you'll be fine.

EDIT:

P.S. When I say good wire, I mean that 40 cent per foot 12 guage stuff or something, not that overpriced $100 junk. There will be absolutely no audible difference.

Nice speakers by the way.
 
hey all,

DAMN divinemartyr, your being a bit of an @$$! i do have a clue as to what im doing, and i bought the best equipment im my price range by doing the research. I do understand the principale behind bi wireing, im just not sure how to impliment it. as far as the sub goes, it is connected with an rca cable, but there are also outs to the speakers (i would asume they are there to utilize the crossover in the sub) i brought this option up because with the 1250 watt amp the sub has it offers an optional power supply for the lows in the speaker. and even IF i had no clue as to what im doing, at least im trying to learn. im sure you wernt born ALL KNOWING, so even you had to learn, and ask questions first!

thanks sohcrates for your help, and thanx Topher2000 for the link, it answerd all my questions!

Link here if anyone wants to read it.

out
 
divinemartyr, I'm not familiar with today's bi-amped speaker systems because I have very old speakers, but if you don't bypass the crossover when bi-amping/bi-wiring, what is the purpose of bi-amping? Bi-amping means that each speaker cone gets its own amplifier channel, and the advantages are less power needed for the same overall volume because there's so little power at high frequencies (100W woofer + 20W tweeter is about as good as 200W conventional), and it's easier to make a high-quality crossover in the pre-amp because it can be done with active filters (cheap parts and no worries about output impedance).

Speaker wire isn't critical at all; just use #16 zip cord, or #14 for extremely high power.
 


<< DAMN divinemartyr, your being a bit of an @$$! i do have a clue as to what im doing, and i bought the best equipment im my price range by doing the research. I do understand the principale behind bi wireing, im just not sure how to impliment it. as far as the sub goes, it is connected with an rca cable, but there are also outs to the speakers (i would asume they are there to utilize the crossover in the sub) i brought this option up because with the 1250 watt amp the sub has it offers an optional power supply for the lows in the speaker. and even IF i had no clue as to what im doing, at least im trying to learn. im sure you wernt born ALL KNOWING, so even you had to learn, and ask questions first! >>



Most receiver manuals tell you HOW to bi-wire, my point was, did you even read the fvcking manual? Did you ask the guys at the audio shop when you bought the stuff, how to do it? Did you try ANYTHING before you asked questions here? No I wasn't born all-knowing but I certainly read the manual when I came into problems. I was first trying to offer you help, but when you ask ridiculous questions, it becomes incresingly more difficult.

Secondly, no you do not need to use those speaker outs on your sub. When you set up your receiver (which again you would have figured out by reading the manual) there is an option for &quot;Subwoofer: yes or no&quot; when you set this to yes, the receiver automatically crosses over the sub frequencies for you, and will send all low frequencies to the sub, and with MOST receivers, everything above 80hz is sent to your main speakers. It could be a different frequency depending on your receiver. My Denon crosses over at 80hz.

I was not being an ASS as you've so kindly pointed out, you honestly don't even know what tone I was using as this is the internet, just because what I worded 'sounded' harsh, doesn't necessarily mean that's how I intended it. I don't think I was being overly dramatic, saying you bought a bunch of stuff and have no clue how to use it. If you'd at least read your receiver's manual, you would have some idea how to do some of the things you've asked us. Denon has some of the most poorly written manuals I know of, and after reading mine, I pretty well understood things you've already asked. I'm not being condescending, just stating facts, that with high end audio gear, read what you're given because it's there for a reason.

If you want our help, you have to learn to accept constructive criticism. Under certain circumstances, people will berate you much worse than anything I have done in this thread, as at least I have posted solutions to your problems! I do this for free, just like everyone else on this board. Just because I don't sugar-coat everything I say, is no reason for you to get an attitude about it.

dm

 
DUDE! get a LIFE!

the purpose of these forums is to get others veiws, ideas, advice ect. in order to do that you have to ask questions. comments like &quot;It sounds like you bought a lot of gear, and really have no clue what to do with it,&quot; and &quot; If you really have no clue what you're doing, and that's more or less what it sounds like, just forget about bi-wiring your speakers and hook them up normally.&quot; are neither helpfull nore productive. i am realy curious how you felt those comments would help answer my questions? as for reading the manuals, most manuals are so frigin vague that they are of no help!

out
 
Biamping in higher end systems is a completely different story, but I haven't tried it so I can't comment on it. However, I can verify that biwiring on standard speakers is useless if you have reasonable speaker cable.

EDIT:

<< just forget about bi-wiring your speakers and hook them up normally.&quot; are neither helpfull nore productive. >>

Actually, probably for a different reason, I agree with that statement totally. I wouldn't bother - you'd just be wasting money on speaker cable because the sound will not improve.
 
eug,

you do have a point, i did ask peoples opinion as to wether i should bi wire, but i was looking for the reason to or not to bi wire to be based on wether or not it improves the sound, not based on wether the person thought i had the mental capacity to impliment it. also, i would think you could assume that if i am paying $6,000 on a new system, i am willing to buy good cables. if not, than that was my bad.
 
Well, what I'm saying is that at least in my view, neither getting expensive cable nor getting biwiring will improve the sound of your system.

There have been a multitude of blinded tests on cable type, and a few on biwiring, and none has ever shown an audible difference. I know for myself, I cannot hear a difference even on higher end systems with eithre biwiring or ultraexpensive cables (despite my friends' and salespersons constant attempts to make me hear a difference).

If you already have expensive cable, that's fine, because in general they're very well built. However, if you haven't bought your cables yet, I'd suggest 12 or 14&quot; guage standard cables for 40 cents a foot, and spend the rest of the bux on some good CDs, etc.

As for the links on that website, a lot of it seems like pseudo-science, but that's just my personal opinion.

Personally, I would have no qualms spending $6000 on a home theatre system and spending only $40 on speaker cables.

I'll stay out of what dm was saying in his post. 😉
 


<< as for reading the manuals, most manuals are so frigin vague that they are of no help! >>



The Denon manual could have helped you in two ways. Number one, how to bi-wire your speakers. They have a pretty nice diagram in there which has pictures of it. Secondly, that it would act as a crossover and you wouldn't have to use the speaker outputs on your subwoofer. I have a Denon manual sitting next to me, so as far as them being vague, that's simply not true.

I'm sorry you feel the information I've given has not been helpful or productive, but you only copy/pasted 2 sentences from several paragraphs that I've written, so if those are the only complaints you have out of both of my posts, I'd say that overall I've given you a decent amount of information, with a little bit of criticism. If I was being paid to help you, I would bite my tongue in every sentence I write, just like any internet or computer phone support technician does. If you can't handle a little bit of constructive criticism, then these probably aren't the right forums for you.

In a recent article in the magazine Sound and Vision, editor in chief Bob Ankosko pretty much sums up what I feel regarding your original post:

Some people just have to have the vest best. Best house. Best SUV. Best boat. Best tennis racket. Best home theater system. I know a guy who dropped $15k on a killer A/V setup -- a 5.1-channel system with a great-sounding set of speakers, a power amp/preamp combo from a well-respected audio company, a reference-quality DVD player, and a big-screen TV. While he's quick to boast about what a great rig he has, he really doesn't have a clue about the power and sophistication behind the collection of components meticulously assembled in his family room. What a waste, I thought to myself when he first told me about this system. Here's a guy who'll never truly appreciate the power of the gear he owns -- it just doesn't seem right! Maybe I'm just jealous . . .

That ends the paragraph. I'm not saying that all of this applies to you, but overall in a way it does. Most of us audiophiles start out small, and learn to appreciate, gradually, the finer points in a nice audio system. By skipping some key elements, you lose out on a little bit of the respect you gain from good audio gear.

All I can say is welcome to the club, and enjoy what you own. Read your manuals, and ask questions objectively and EXPECT to get some less-than-positive responses, that's how it always happens. Believe me, I've been subject to some interesting retorts over the years, and while not always nice, I learned to accept that when you're ignorant to some piece of knowledge, some people have been asked these questions literally hundreds of times, and after awhile, it can get frustrating! Think about the people on the other side, who are answering your questions for free, and learn to take the good with the bad in life. Life isn't always fair, but I didn't take anything away from you, so you really don't have anything to complain about. In fact, you walked away with a bit of my knowledge for nothing. You got something out of it. 🙂

dm
 
Nebak, basically I would stick with sinlge wiring for now.
If you want to, you could get cables like the Tara Labs Klara that have 1 hookup on the receiver side, but split into 2 on the speaker side (for your easy biring purposes)



 
Ok, let me help you out a little bit....
You probably dont want to go this high end, but it will give you an idea of what you need to get.


Speaker Wire
Interconnect for your subwoofer

Look at those and maybe you will have a better idea of what you are going to beed for your setup. I also think you should head down to the store you bought your equiptment from and ask them exactly what you need.
 
Denon, that first link is exactly what I saw talking about.

personally I'd stick with a nice $1 a foot 12guage cable.
I got mine (blue Ultrasound) from Bay/Bloor Radio 5 years ago, and it's still doing me well.
BTW: Bay/Bloor Radio is the highest end audio shop in all of downtown T.O.
It's 512 strands, so it carries the high frequencies well; high freqs. like to travel on the outer edge of the strands, so the more strands, well you figure it out 😀
 
Yeah, wasting your money on expensive speaker cable like that is... well... a waste. Any decent gauge cable that can carry the signal, will perform equally well with the Monster or Kimber cables of the world.

dm
 
Personally I wouldn't buy that monster cable for my speakers either, but it gives a good description of what a bi-wireable wire looks like. You can find many different brands out there that are just as nice, and not as expensive. I still believe a good wiring is always necessary. As for the interconnect, do not cut yourself short.
 
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