Sorry to hear that
I hope G-d will show you the light some day. Might I suggest reading the books of Daniel and Revelation and examining the events occurring in our world today? I think you'll be surprised by the results....
Sorry to hear that
I hope G-d will show you the light some day. Might I suggest reading the books of Daniel and Revelation and examining the events occurring in our world today? I think you'll be surprised by the results....
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
- 3
- 0
Hey Saltboy, Flyer thinks he's a better Christian than you!Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Sorry to hear that
Flyer, you sound like a fairly new Born Again who is so zealous because he needs to convince himself more so than others!
Please explain one thing to me:
How is making a suggestion spouting propaganda? Perhaps in your mind it is, but in the real world they're two completely different things. All the man did was make a simple suggestion folks. Perhaps he shouldn't have insulted some passengers by calling them crazy (it is my contention he did this in a joking manner) but that doesn't make his statements propaganda.
Stop blowing his actions out of proportion.
Main Entry: pro·pa·gan·da
Pronunciation: "prä-p&-'gan-d&, "prO-
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin, from Congregatio de propaganda fide Congregation for propagating the faith, organization established by Pope Gregory XV died 1623
1 capitalized : a congregation of the Roman curia having jurisdiction over missionary territories and related institutions
2 : the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
3 : ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect
And...
Now...you tell me?
Just because you've been brainwashed by some ultra-fundamentalist sect doesn't mean the rest of the world stopped thinking for themselves.
Pronunciation: "prä-p&-'gan-d&, "prO-
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin, from Congregatio de propaganda fide Congregation for propagating the faith, organization established by Pope Gregory XV died 1623
1 capitalized : a congregation of the Roman curia having jurisdiction over missionary territories and related institutions
2 : the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
3 : ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect
And...
Now...you tell me?
Just because you've been brainwashed by some ultra-fundamentalist sect doesn't mean the rest of the world stopped thinking for themselves.
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Hey Saltboy, Flyer thinks he's a better Christian than you!Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Sorry to hear that
Flyer, you sound like a fairly new Born Again who is so zealous because he needs to convince himself more so than others!
Whatever you need to tell yourself to get through the day, Red Dawn
Jesus himself commanded his followers to be zealots. Please explain to me how I am somehow in the wrong. BTW, you might as well save your breath because I can guarantee you there's nothing any man on this earth can tell me that will make me disbelieve the word of G-d. Oh, and I never said anything about being a "better Christian" than anyone, thanks for putting words in my mouth, so to speak. You people just love to infer things into my statements that I never said, don't you? It seems to occur quite often around here... I guess one needs to do things like this when they have no ground upon which to stand.
Anyway, G-d Bless!
Spike
Diamond Member
- Aug 27, 2001
- 6,770
- 1
- 81
The "problem" with your statement is that the Bible instructs Christians to go out into the world and let all know about him. Now, this does not mean force your religion upon someone (or make them believe it) and as a Christian myself, I am upset that the pilot would encourage this. Last time I checked the worst way to introduce someone to what you believe is to try and force them to hear it. Engageing someone in intelligent conversation next to you about evolution, religion, etc... is not a crime, though it should be done with the consent of the person you are talking to. This eliminates that oh so fun talking "at" someone.
-spike
Originally posted by: dtyn
Oh no! He mentioned something about religion.
Who cares? People are too sensitive.
i'll keep that opinion til i die!
Bah. I still contend making a simple suggestion is not propaganda, at least, not in the traditional sense. By the literal definition of the word it may very well be but that definition is so broad that any statement of opinion is considered propaganda. I don't believe that one bit.
Oh, I don't belong to any religious sect, thank you very much. As I've stated numerous times in this thread and others, I don't attend any church, nor do I belong to any religion. Jesus wasn't in favor of organized religion (or religion at all, for that matter), he simply wanted people to gather together and worship, not set up power structures to glorify themselves.
LoL ... you're still banging that 1st amendment free speech thing???
The pilot is absolutely free to preach to his passengers ... the government won't prevent him unless it becomes some sort of safety hazard. That's what the first amendment is about.
But the first amendment does nothing to prevent AA from firing his ass for preaching as an official representaive of their company. That's what will get him in trouble. And the ACLU wouldn't take the case ... not because they are anti-christian, but becauser there is no case. AA would fire him for cause ... they probably already had guidelines about this sort of thing ... most companies do. I certainly can't make public statements on behalf of my company without PA's approval.
As for the boycott ... LoL ... I bet AA is willing to take that risk. Zealots who'd be willing to boycott over this issue are likely to be a very very small minority. While the number of people, including faithful christians, who would be embarrassed by this action, and would reconsider flying AA, all other things being equal, is enourmous.
The pilot is absolutely free to preach to his passengers ... the government won't prevent him unless it becomes some sort of safety hazard. That's what the first amendment is about.
But the first amendment does nothing to prevent AA from firing his ass for preaching as an official representaive of their company. That's what will get him in trouble. And the ACLU wouldn't take the case ... not because they are anti-christian, but becauser there is no case. AA would fire him for cause ... they probably already had guidelines about this sort of thing ... most companies do. I certainly can't make public statements on behalf of my company without PA's approval.
As for the boycott ... LoL ... I bet AA is willing to take that risk. Zealots who'd be willing to boycott over this issue are likely to be a very very small minority. While the number of people, including faithful christians, who would be embarrassed by this action, and would reconsider flying AA, all other things being equal, is enourmous.
Flyermax2k3 = TROLL
People like flyermax thinks since they're the chosen few who believe in the "Lord" they are better than any of us pagans.
He may not kill or bomb innocent civilians like terrorists, but you know in his heart he thinks you're evil and going to hell.
People like flyermax thinks since they're the chosen few who believe in the "Lord" they are better than any of us pagans.
He may not kill or bomb innocent civilians like terrorists, but you know in his heart he thinks you're evil and going to hell.
IOW, "I just got pwn3d so I'll try to redirect."
Soo...you were kidnapped and hypnotized, then, eh? I see.
BTW, flyermax, you still haven't answered the question:
Was it or was it not appropriate for the pilot to insult the passengers?
This is the 4th time I've asked you.
Who knows what was running through the pilot's mind and why he chose to proceed in the manner he did? I certainly don't, nor does anyone else here. I think your definition of "forcing your religion on someone" and mine differ just a bit. I simply don't beleive this man forced anything upon anyone. Everyone on that plane *chose* to be there. He didn't hold anyone up at gunpoint and make them listen to a sermon, he simply suggested Christian passengers spread the word to non-Christian passengers. I see nothing wrong with that.
Well, only time will tell eh? Your opinion is just as valid as mine, but it's still just your opinion
On the first amendment/free speech/freedom of religion issue: it's kind of central to this case, wouldn't you say? It would be a bit difficult to avoid discussing it, as it is the basis for his freedoms and he *wouldn't* have been able to do what he did without it so we can't exactly avoid discussing it.
DougK62
Diamond Member
- Mar 28, 2001
- 8,035
- 6
- 81
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Hey Saltboy, Flyer thinks he's a better Christian than you!Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Sorry to hear that
Flyer, you sound like a fairly new Born Again who is so zealous because he needs to convince himself more so than others!
Whatever you need to tell yourself to get through the day, Red Dawn
Oh, and I never said anything about being a "better Christian" than anyone, thanks for putting words in my mouth, so to speak. You people just love to infer things into my statements that I never said, don't you? It seems to occur quite often around here... I guess one needs to do things like this when they have no ground upon which to stand.
Anyway, G-d Bless!
You don't have to explicitly say "I'm a better Christian" to mean it. You said it, but just in a round-about way. Saying that you hope god will show SaltBoy the light is condescending and arrogant to SaltBoy's beliefs -- which are Christian just like yours. Remember that the Bible leaves a lot of room for interpretation. You deny this interpretation and that's one of the reasons why you're pissing off people.
Amen to that. It's sad that you admit being a pagan. I sincerely hope you don't go to hell, I don't want *anyone* to go to hell, despite what you may think of me. Only you can determine whether or not you go to hell, I certainly don't make that decision for you.
Oh, and thanks for comparing me to a terrorist. That was quite uncalled for.
Anyway, I still love you! G-d bless!
Spike
Diamond Member
- Aug 27, 2001
- 6,770
- 1
- 81
See, I would have to disagree with you flyer. I think the pilot chose a wrong time to bring this up, just the chance of panic should have made him reconsider. Yes, we need to be the "light unto the world", though not when it might endanger someone else (or in this case all the passengers). No one could accuratly predict what they would do if one person paniced and raced around screaming they are all gonna die cause the pilot is talking about religion. This would have caused a situation that would not only alienate every non-Christian on the flight but also engander lives.
-spike
-spike
eh, guess you missed the post where I said perhaps the pilot shouldn't have insulted the non-Christians?
DougK62
Diamond Member
- Mar 28, 2001
- 8,035
- 6
- 81
About that "captive audience" issue. How are they NOT a captive audience? Sure, they chose to buy the ticket and go on the plane, but once that plane takes off you're stuck. You are at the whim of whatever the pilot and staff wants to do. That's the whole reason that planes were hijacked and rammed into buildings...
I don't think AA would be in a world of hurt. This is sort of like the shouting fire in a theatre clause. Your freedom of speech is fine as long as it doesn't endanger or harass others. In this case, he could have potentially caused a panic. He didn't, but that was luck. Inquiring people about their religion and making them feel compelled to talk about it isnt polite conversation, just like politics, or asking someone what they weigh, how much money they make, etc. It has a tendancy to offend people, and its not uncommon for people to get in heated arguments (as evidenced here). Heated arguments can turn ugly. An ugly heated argument can cause people who are already nervous about flying to panic. It could cause a nervous passenger with a heart condition to keel over dead, in which case the pilot would be liable for his actions.
Originally posted by: DougK62
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Hey Saltboy, Flyer thinks he's a better Christian than you!Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Sorry to hear that
Flyer, you sound like a fairly new Born Again who is so zealous because he needs to convince himself more so than others!
Whatever you need to tell yourself to get through the day, Red Dawn
Oh, and I never said anything about being a "better Christian" than anyone, thanks for putting words in my mouth, so to speak. You people just love to infer things into my statements that I never said, don't you? It seems to occur quite often around here... I guess one needs to do things like this when they have no ground upon which to stand.
Anyway, G-d Bless!
You don't have to explicitly say "I'm a better Christian" to mean it. You said it, but just in a round-about way. Saying that you hope god will show SaltBoy the light is condescending and arrogant to SaltBoy's beliefs -- which are Christian just like yours. Remember that the Bible leaves a lot of room for interpretation. You deny this interpretation and that's one of the reasons why you're pissing off people.
Oh but that's where you're wrong! If you truly believe in the word of G-d you know that it is *not* open to interpretation (with the exception of prophecy, which describes future events and can't help but be open to interpretation since no man knows what the future holds).
Once again, I don't think I'm better than anyone. I just think my beliefs are right and yours are wrong, that's all
Nothing wrong with that. I guarantee you every last person that has responded to this thread thinks the same thing in regards to *some* issue, whether it be politics, religion, morality, science, philosophy, sports, pop culture, or anything else. It's simply human nature to think one's self right and others wrong. It just so happens that I base my beliefs entirely on the word of G-d, while the vast majority of people in this thread don't.ROFLES!!! If you choose to be somewhere you are, by the very definition of captive audience, *not* a member of a captive audience
Sorry, no matter what you want to say on this issue the fact of the matter is I'm right."Everyone on that plane *chose* to be there."
If you don't understand that people on an airplane up in the air forms a captive audience, it's hard to believe. A captive audience is an audience that cannot leave, it doesn't matter how they got there.
People in a theater also chose to be there..
Here is how I see it, I'm on an airplane and the person I've entrusted my life to comes out and says who here is a true believer ? I would be scared sh\tless.
What if he said "Which of you worship Satan ? and then encouraged the Satan worshippers to devour live rodents and chant ooga booga until the flight was over ? Would that be ok with you ?
If you don't understand that people on an airplane up in the air forms a captive audience, it's hard to believe. A captive audience is an audience that cannot leave, it doesn't matter how they got there.
People in a theater also chose to be there..
Here is how I see it, I'm on an airplane and the person I've entrusted my life to comes out and says who here is a true believer ? I would be scared sh\tless.
What if he said "Which of you worship Satan ? and then encouraged the Satan worshippers to devour live rodents and chant ooga booga until the flight was over ? Would that be ok with you ?
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Oh but that's where you're wrong! If you truly believe in the word of G-d you know that it is *not* open to interpretation (with the exception of prophecy, which describes future events and can't help but be open to interpretation since no man knows what the future holds).
Once again, I don't think I'm better than anyone. I just think my beliefs are right and yours are wrong, that's all
That's just it. Sane and rational people understand the Bible (esp. the Old Testament) is a compendium of stories and allegories intermixed with historical fact. It was never intended to be taken 100% at face-value. Only those ultra-fundamentalists would think that and you, obviously, are one of the ones suckered into that.
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