Fluoride is a poison

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Thump553
I'm in my fifties and this was a hot topic when I was in grade school among the John Birch society types (think right wing aluminum foil hat characters). Simple fact-both my wife and I grew up in (seperate) suburbs with fluoridated water. Our kids mostly drank well water (no flouride) as they grew up, and despite having flouride in their toothpaste, our kids had far more cavities than we ever did.

Look at the demand for dentists today-it's far less than it used to me.

There's a lot of other legit concerns to worry about in this world than a silly fluoride conspirarcy.

Compare your diet growing up to your kids diet. Who drinks more soda and eats more candy?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: EatSpam
Many things are public health issues, like vaccinations and STDs. But for both those things, you go to a doctor and get appropriate treatment. Why is it ok for a water company, with no medical or dental credentials, to medicate me?

You're missing a whole bunch of reality, here. In most locales, measles, mumps, polio and other vaccinations are required by loa for all school children. Without them, there would be no way to stop the transmission of those diseases among the kids who are going to be in close proximity in school.

Second, public water systems are under the jurisdiction of the areas they serve. They have to meet numerous legislative standards for purity, and they are monitored to make sure they conform. The level of fluoridation in a public water system is just one more thing to monitor.

Third, and most important, if your local water district is fluoridating your water, you've already been outvoted. Fortunately for you, unless you've had a bunch of local deaths or inuries caused by fluoridation, they appear to be more informed about the subject than you, and you and your neighbors are that much better off for it.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: EatSpam
Third, and most important, if your local water district is fluoridating your water, you've already been outvoted. Fortunately for you, unless you've had a bunch of local deaths or inuries caused by fluoridation, they appear to be more informed about the subject than you, and you and your neighbors are that much better off for it.

To be quite honest, I doubt it was ever put to a vote. "Everyone Knows" that flouride is good for you, right? That kind of faith is popular in my community.

Fun fact: Naturally occuring "flouride" is calcium flouride. The "flouride" in toothpaste, drinking water, and flouride treatments in sodium flouride. One naturally occurs, the other does not.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: EatSpam
When I was a kid, I used to get those flouride treatments at the dentist. I used to have to sit in the chair with that nasty concentrated flouride gel for 5 or 10 minutes, then I couldn't wash my mouth out for 30 minutes. Do you hold water in your mouth for extended periods of time to get the "full effect" of the flouride? Doubtful.

You are ignorant of the method or the science, yes the fluoride contact with each swallow of water is minimal, do you only drink one mouthfull of water a day? Do you only drink that mouthfull of water once every 6months like the dental treatments you recieved?

Originally posted by: EatSpam
Regarding my supposed ignorance: I heard all the ADA evidence and heard all the lectures at school about the magic of flouride. I just don't buy it and I think its insane that a population, as a whole, should be medicated with out each individual consulting a medical professional.

Most of Europe and Japan is unflouridated: Text

I really don't care what europe and Japan are doing, in fact it's not really relevant because anything you provide isn't going to list how much natural fluoride is in the water in both places. Fluoride is a naturaly occuring sustance in most water supplies and for some reason the US has a very small amount in most places. It's a public health issue, if you don't like it feel free to drink bottled water or sink your own water well, there is no law that you must drink your tap water. The US is quite unique in the world in that our tap water is generally safe to drink consitently.

Your opposition to fluoride is laughable, do you exhibit the same concern for the level of arsenic or other toxins in you water? (and yes they ARE there and they COULD be removed)

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: EatSpam
Regarding my supposed ignorance: I heard all the ADA evidence and heard all the lectures at school about the magic of flouride. I just don't buy it and I think its insane that a population, as a whole, should be medicated with out each individual consulting a medical professional.

Most of Europe and Japan is unflouridated: Text

I really don't care what europe and Japan are doing, in fact it's not really relevant because anything you provide isn't going to list how much natural fluoride is in the water in both places. Fluoride is a naturaly occuring sustance in most water supplies and for some reason the US has a very small amount in most places. It's a public health issue, if you don't like it feel free to drink bottled water or sink your own water well, there is no law that you must drink your tap water. The US is quite unique in the world in that our tap water is generally safe to drink consitently.

Your opposition to fluoride is laughable, do you exhibit the same concern for the level of arsenic or other toxins in you water? (and yes they ARE there and they COULD be removed)

Natural flouride is calcium flouride, the additive is sodium flouride. A little different, don't you think?

You honestly believe that tap water in Western Europe and Japan isn't drinkable? Wow. Such savages, those Europeans. :roll: They tried our little flouridation experiment and discarded it as bad science.

I am concerned about arsenic and other potential nastyness in the water, but at least no one is adding those poisons to the water.

By your logic, I shouldn't have any teeth left.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: EatSpam
Natural flouride is calcium flouride, the additive is sodium flouride. A little different, don't you think?

Nope. Calcium fluoride has a slightly higher bonding than sodium, BFD. Of course I'm aware of chemistry.

Originally posted by: EatSpam
You honestly believe that tap water in Western Europe and Japan isn't drinkable? Wow. Such savages, those Europeans. :roll:

Do you mind pointing out where I said that? Your assumption about some implied meaning is your ASSumption, don't put words in my mouth. Why don't you address my comment about fluoride being present in the water supplies of Europe and Japan in much higher quantities than the US.

Originally posted by: EatSpam
They tried our little flouridation experiment and discarded it as bad science.

Oh they did? Why don't you provide a link to that study.

Originally posted by: EatSpam
I am concerned about arsenic and other potential nastyness in the water, but at least no one is adding those poisons to the water.

Oh are you as concerned? Do you debate it with such vigour? Do you sign petitions asking your local water company to add a tertiary treatment program to remove poisonous chemicals from your water supply that are below EPA levels? Fluoride isn't poisonous at the levels added to drinking water, and you can't argue with that because the AMA and numerous studies have concluded that.

Originally posted by: EatSpam
By your logic, I shouldn't have any teeth left.

Oh really? Where did I say that? Confusing my posts with others? I have been saying all along it's a public health measure, JUST like putting chlorine in your water which is in fact MUCH more toxic on an order of magnitute of like 1000 times more so than fluoride. Again, why do you oppose fluoride but not chlorine?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: EatSpam
To be quite honest, I doubt it was ever put to a vote. "Everyone Knows" that flouride is good for you, right? That kind of faith is popular in my community.

To be quite honest, you're blowing smoke. Fluoridation may not have appeared as a ballot measure, but you can be damned sure it was approved by a vote of whatever city, county or state legislators that would be required in your jurisdiction.

Everyone knows is a valid premise when the documentation is so overwhelming... or did you just ignore the data in the posted links? You are welcome to your own opinion. You are NOT welcome to your own facts.

EatSpam -- I'm afraid your reality check is bouncing.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: rahvin

Originally posted by: EatSpam
Natural flouride is calcium flouride, the additive is sodium flouride. A little different, don't you think?

Nope. Calcium fluoride has a slightly higher bonding than sodium, BFD. Of course I'm aware of chemistry.

Originally posted by: EatSpam
You honestly believe that tap water in Western Europe and Japan isn't drinkable? Wow. Such savages, those Europeans. :roll:

Do you mind pointing out where I said that? Your assumption about some implied meaning is your ASSumption, don't put words in my mouth. Why don't you address my comment about fluoride being present in the water supplies of Europe and Japan in much higher quantities than the US.

Originally posted by: EatSpam
They tried our little flouridation experiment and discarded it as bad science.

Oh they did? Why don't you provide a link to that study.

Originally posted by: EatSpam
I am concerned about arsenic and other potential nastyness in the water, but at least no one is adding those poisons to the water.

Oh are you as concerned? Do you debate it with such vigour? Do you sign petitions asking your local water company to add a tertiary treatment program to remove poisonous chemicals from your water supply that are below EPA levels? Fluoride isn't poisonous at the levels added to drinking water, and you can't argue with that because the AMA and numerous studies have concluded that.

Originally posted by: EatSpam
By your logic, I shouldn't have any teeth left.

Oh really? Where did I say that? Confusing my posts with others? I have been saying all along it's a public health measure, JUST like putting chlorine in your water which is in fact MUCH more toxic on an order of magnitute of like 1000 times more so than fluoride. Again, why do you oppose fluoride but not chlorine?

Since I'm not a hardcore debater, nor do I wish to duplicate effort, this site, which caters to skeptics like me, will answer your questions far better than I ever could:

http://www.fluoridedebate.com/

The page rebutts the ADA pamphlet on water flouridation.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: EatSpam
Since I'm not a hardcore debater, nor do I wish to duplicate effort, this site, which caters to skeptics like me, will answer your questions far better than I ever could:

http://www.fluoridedebate.com/

The page rebutts the ADA pamphlet on water flouridation.

And it's bullsh!t. I saw the same BS when we voted on it. Almost none of it has any basis whatsover in actual science. Quotes taken from actual documents are one (or even partial) sentence taken out of context often changing the meaning completely. In addition they provide no substantiation for their claims whatsover whereas fluoride and it's use in the water supply has been shown via scientifc studies to reduce dental carries, a severe dissease in this country.

To counter the science they quote 50 year old letters before any of this science had been done. The doctors they rely on often doctors of chriopractic (or other utterly unreliable sources of medical information) or select pediatric dentists (the evidence is that they can find so few dentists to sign on to their campaign of missinformation) that fear the damage to their practice of having fewer fillings.

 

[RU482]

my family doesn't drink straight tap water, so I don't give a fvck

 

[RobCur]

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: EatSpam
Why does our water have to be a carrier for medicine? If I have a headache, I take an Excedrin, I don't expect that my water should contain pain killers. If you make the argument that sodium flouride is a "nutrient", why not add vitamin D to the water? Recent studies have shown that many people are deficient in vitamin D. You think flouride has helped you? Take your own flouride supplements.

I think it was added to the water a while ago when tooth decay among youth had become a national crisis type of thing. You know, for the children. As to vitamin D, that's why it is added to milk.

Maybe they need to cut down on sugar, ex. excessive candy eating
What a stupid world we live in, people will believe anything if it suits their agendas

 

[RobCur]

I wouldn't put anything in my mouth that is harmful, especially flouride.
That stuff is used to kill roaches, mice, rats and even ants
WTF you say? But it's true, just that more are ignorant of the truth.

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: RobCur
I wouldn't put anything in my mouth that is harmful, especially flouride.
That stuff is used to kill roaches, mice, rats and even ants
WTF you say? But it's true, just that more are ignorant of the truth.

have you studied medecine and/or dentistry?

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: RobCur
I wouldn't put anything in my mouth that is harmful, especially flouride.
That stuff is used to kill roaches, mice, rats and even ants
WTF you say? But it's true, just that more are ignorant of the truth.

Most of these people are "good" true Americans. They have faith. They believe everything they hear from an authority. They cannot fathom that the authority might be corrupt.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: RobCur
I wouldn't put anything in my mouth that is harmful, especially flouride.
That stuff is used to kill roaches, mice, rats and even ants
WTF you say? But it's true, just that more are ignorant of the truth.

Most of these people are "good" true Americans. They have faith. They believe everything they hear from an authority. They cannot fathom that the authority might be corrupt.

You've said nothing, and you've shown nothing, and consequently, nothing is the sum total value of your opinion on this subject.

You are welcome to your own opinion. You are NOT welcome to your own facts.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: RobCur

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: EatSpam
Why does our water have to be a carrier for medicine? If I have a headache, I take an Excedrin, I don't expect that my water should contain pain killers. If you make the argument that sodium flouride is a "nutrient", why not add vitamin D to the water? Recent studies have shown that many people are deficient in vitamin D. You think flouride has helped you? Take your own flouride supplements.

I think it was added to the water a while ago when tooth decay among youth had become a national crisis type of thing. You know, for the children. As to vitamin D, that's why it is added to milk.

Maybe they need to cut down on sugar, ex. excessive candy eating
What a stupid world we live in, people will believe anything if it suits their agendas

Heh, don't look at me. I was trying to explain it, not excuse it.

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: Gaard
So is Fluoride added to our water as some sort of cleansing agent to make it safer to drink, or is it added strictly to 'benefit' us? Also, is there some kind of government regulation dealing with this? Obviously if there are regulations, they aren't federal (if the 'Oregon' posts are correct), so it's more of a local decision, right? Also, I wonder if there have been any 'dental' studies comparing Oregon to the rest of the nation on the pros and cons of this.

Oregon doesn't flouridate water due to the fact that it kills salmon, which are already endangered. BTW, I've had two cavities in my whole life. It's called brushing and flossing, kids.

 

[RobCur]

Sweets is bad for your health and your teeth, just drink water and don't use flouride toothpaste. That stuff taste bad anyway(very bitter), everytime I ate a little of it numbs my skull.
well in the past but I've stopped using for a year now and my teeth have shown an improvement

 

[Thump553]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Thump553
I'm in my fifties and this was a hot topic when I was in grade school among the John Birch society types (think right wing aluminum foil hat characters). Simple fact-both my wife and I grew up in (seperate) suburbs with fluoridated water. Our kids mostly drank well water (no flouride) as they grew up, and despite having flouride in their toothpaste, our kids had far more cavities than we ever did.

Look at the demand for dentists today-it's far less than it used to me.

There's a lot of other legit concerns to worry about in this world than a silly fluoride conspirarcy.

Compare your diet growing up to your kids diet. Who drinks more soda and eats more candy?

Actually, the diet of a kid in the sixties was probably as bad or worse, dental-wise. Sugar substitutes were nearly nonexisitent and tasted so bad no kid would voluntarily eat them. Things like electric toothbrushes were also extremely rare (we didn't have them, my kids did). Sorry, but I still relegate the flouride "debate" to the aluminum foil hat types.