Florida High School Shooting

[Puffnstuff]

Doesn't change the fact that there is no need for them to be in civilians hands. Irresponsible doesn't just apply to those who will kill or want to kill with them it is also owning them when there is no practical reason to.

Thank you for not screaming at me.

There are many things that are not practical, like monster trucks, yet people are permitted to possess them. Matches are also capable of burning down a house or setting the woods on fire in the wrong hands yet we still openly sell them unregulated I might add. A compound crossbow is not regulated either and in the hands of a competent user it can also do plenty of harm without a report to disclose the users position. Guns on the other hand are a guaranteed right and nobody who lawfully exercises it will surrender it.

 

[Younigue]

There are many things that are not practical, like monster trucks, yet people are permitted to possess them. Matches are also capable of burning down a house or setting the woods on fire in the wrong hands yet we still openly sell them unregulated I might add. A compound crossbow is not regulated either and in the hands of a competent user it can also do plenty of harm without a report to disclose the users position. Guns on the other hand are a guaranteed right and nobody who lawfully exercises it will surrender it.

A vehicles main purpose is transportation. Matches main purpose is for warmth. If a compound crossbow can kill 17 people I minutes then they shouldn't be allowed either.

2A when composed could not have conceived of what guns would become.


“Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence, and deem them like the ark of the covenant, too sacred to be touched. They ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment...But I know also, that laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths disclosed, and manners and opinions change with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also, and keep pace with the times.” ~ Thomas Jefferson

 

[Puffnstuff]

A vehicles main purpose is transportation. Matches main purpose is for warmth. If a compound crossbow can kill 17 people I minutes then they shouldn't be allowed either.

2A when composed could not have conceived of what guns would become.


“Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence, and deem them like the ark of the covenant, too sacred to be touched. They ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment...But I know also, that laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths disclosed, and manners and opinions change with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also, and keep pace with the times.” ~ Thomas Jefferson

Law abiding people buy guns for lawful purposes. The shooter was mentally disturbed and officials involved with his evaluations should be called into question for their previous assessments. There are plenty of instances where people have burned down entire city blocks playing with matches and if you google search for arsonists you will find that they wreak havoc every year using fire.

Mental health issues are becoming more prevalent in our society and gun laws need to be amended to reflect this new reality, however, as a law abiding person I do not want my rights trampled upon. Group punishment is not the answer. The laws governing gun ownership should be carefully rewritten to include closing up existing loopholes for gun acquisition such as ghost guns, private sales and gifting to prevent persons who could not lawfully obtain a weapon via a background check from having access to obtain one. As long as the extreme left only wants to take the guns away this will go nowhere and the standoff will continue unabated.

 

[Timorous]

Law abiding people buy guns for lawful purposes. The shooter was mentally disturbed and officials involved with his evaluations should be called into question for their previous assessments. There are plenty of instances where people have burned down entire city blocks playing with matches and if you google search for arsonists you will find that they wreak havoc every year using fire.

Mental health issues are becoming more prevalent in our society and gun laws need to be amended to reflect this new reality, however, as a law abiding person I do not want my rights trampled upon. Group punishment is not the answer. The laws governing gun ownership should be carefully rewritten to include closing up existing loopholes for gun acquisition such as ghost guns, private sales and gifting to prevent persons who could not lawfully obtain a weapon via a background check from having access to obtain one. As long as the extreme left only wants to take the guns away this will go nowhere and the standoff will continue unabated.

You could start by getting your government to allow the CDC to research gun violence, get some hard data on the subject so any future legislation is backed by evidence.

 

[FIVR]

Except the government made a category of criminal to cover your example call an enemy combatant. US citizens cooperating with ISIS can get that type of FBI monitoring. This guy didn't fit. Disaffected youth turned terrorist with easy access to guns.

Yes they are at fault for not acting but because of the US "let's let everybody have guns" culture they would have been powerless to stop him. Some states have created laws that can stop guys like him from buying guns but the NRA and 2A absolutists object to this too.

Our gun culture is more responsible for this the the FBI.

Dude, the FBI spent years investigating every aspect of Hillary Clinton's life over NOTHING. She was the former secretary of state and yet somehow you're telling me the FBI were "powerless" to stop some psychopathic orphan living in a foster home because of US gun laws? While people were literally calling the FBI and telling them this kid was going to shoot up a school any minute?


lmao


They were just busy doing "other shit"...

 

[FIVR]

Also, just to clear things up, Islamic terrorists which are US citizens in the US are not "enemy combatants" and legally get the same protections as all americans. There is no special legal loophole that allows the FBI to go violate these US citizens rights. They just do it because they can, and they can do that to any US citizen they choose to.

You are delusional if you think the FBI only violates the rights of "islamic terrorists" because they are "enemy combatants".

 

[glenn1]

I think your point is valid but can you explain why things like hands grenades are illegal to own? Now why doesn't that supply to such guns that are capable of doing a mass amount of harm in a short period?

I'd argue that the NFA, under its destructive device prohibition, could cover such weapons, no new laws would need to be passed and no constitutional crises either.

They aren't illegal to own, you just need the appropriate type of license. Ditto for fully automatic weapons ("machine guns"), explosives, and any other number of things. Almost never is something completely banned with basically no exceptions like during the Assault Weapons Ban.

 

[glenn1]

You could start by getting your government to allow the CDC to research gun violence, get some hard data on the subject so any future legislation is backed by evidence.

I'd be okay with research but the CDC is the wrong place for this to be done, should be the FBI since gun crime is what we care about.

 

[shortylickens]

They are threatening to not attend school.

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/37...g-survivors-vow-not-to-return-to-school-until

I dont think they understand the politicians WANT ignorant stupid masses because they are more easily controlled. But its a nice idea.

 

[Puffnstuff]

If all of those future voters banded together to never vote Republican the GOP would definitely feel the pain next cycle. I wonder how many of them will register to vote when eligible?

 

[realibrad]

If all of those future voters banded together to never vote Republican the GOP would definitely feel the pain next cycle. I wonder how many of them will register to vote when eligible?

Maybe a little. South Florida is still pretty heavy D. 66% Hillary to 31% Trump for 2016 election. Not going to be a huge impact.

https://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/florida

 

[Puffnstuff]

Maybe a little. South Florida is still pretty heavy D. 66% Hillary to 31% Trump for 2016 election. Not going to be a huge impact.

https://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/florida

I was thinking of students at the national level which would have an impact.

 

[mikeymikec]

Yet another day of "did Trump really just say this out loud?":

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/18/politics/donald-trump-florida-shooting-twitter/index.html

Very sad that the FBI missed all of the many signals sent out by the Florida school shooter. This is not acceptable. They are spending too much time trying to prove Russian collusion with the Trump campaign - there is no collusion. Get back to the basics and make us all proud!

How does this guy still have any supporters?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Yet another day of "did Trump really just say this out loud?":

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/18/politics/donald-trump-florida-shooting-twitter/index.html



How does this guy still have any supporters?

Because the world is filled with really shitty people who care about nothing but their own views and all else are the enemy to be destroyed at any cost?

 

[realibrad]

I was thinking of students at the national level which would have an impact.

Maybe. They could go on to do big things, but not in terms of voting it wont make much of an impact in terms of just the locals. Now, if you are talking how everyone else is perceiving all of this, that will likely hurt.

 

[realibrad]

Yet another day of "did Trump really just say this out loud?":

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/18/politics/donald-trump-florida-shooting-twitter/index.html



How does this guy still have any supporters?

I don't know if it was about the Russia thing, and Trump is an idiot, but the FBI did mess up here. Do you not agree with that part, or are you just saying he is stupid for the Russia thing?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I don't know if it was about the Russia thing, and Trump is an idiot, but the FBI did mess up here. Do you not agree with that part, or are you just saying he is stupid for the Russia thing?

I think it’s the fact he has to make himself the victim in everything. Even this. 17 kids dead and poor Trump. It’s disgusting.

 

[realibrad]

I think it’s the fact he has to make himself the victim in everything. Even this. 17 kids dead and poor Trump. It’s disgusting.

Hmmm I don't see it as him making himself the victim. He seems to be saying that because they are wasting time on looking into him (not a waste to me) they are not spending enough time on the other things they should be doing. For him to be a victim he would have to say something to the effect "look at how they hurt me". He has said things like that before, but in this one comment I do not see that. I just see him saying they are wasting their time on things that are not worth it.

 

[Fenixgoon]

You could start by getting your government to allow the CDC to research gun violence, get some hard data on the subject so any future legislation is backed by evidence.

I'd be okay with research but the CDC is the wrong place for this to be done, should be the FBI since gun crime is what we care about.

i think both are actually appropriate. the CDC can come at it from a health perspective, while the FBI comes at it from a crime perspective.

~2/3 of gun deaths are suicides, while only ~1/3 are homicides. it's a multifaceted problem.

 

[momeNt]

I think it’s the fact he has to make himself the victim in everything. Even this. 17 kids dead and poor Trump. It’s disgusting.

3 of the dead were adults.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Hmmm I don't see it as him making himself the victim. He seems to be saying that because they are wasting time on looking into him (not a waste to me) they are not spending enough time on the other things they should be doing. For him to be a victim he would have to say something to the effect "look at how they hurt me" or something to that effect. He has said things like that before, but in this one comment I do not see that. I just see him saying they are wasting their time on things that are not worth it.

It’s bullshit. The FBI has 35,000 people. Anything related to Russia has nothing to do with this. But he frames it as the fbi is going after him so look at the bad things happening as a result.

Do you think the Russia investigation in any way had anything to do with what they failed to do in Florida?

 

[realibrad]

It’s bullshit. The FBI has 35,000 people. Anything related to Russia has nothing to do with this. But he frames it as the fbi is going after him so look at the bad things happening as a result.

Do you think the Russia investigation in any way had anything to do with what they failed to do in Florida?

No, I do not think Russia had anything to do with why they failed. I just disagree that it was him making himself the victim. Now, if you think its horrible that he is using the dead kids to attack the FBI over Russia then we 100% agree. I think its super shitty to drag the victims of Parkland into his political beef with the FBI. I think its just another example of how he simply cares about nobody but himself.

I just disagree with him saying he was the victim. I do think the FBI dropped the ball big time and there are now 17 dead kids because the agency did not do its job. It makes it even worse that their resources were not devoted to this. With the information that we do know, this kid should have had someone at his door weeks ago. Heads should roll for this.

 

[mikeymikec]

I don't know if it was about the Russia thing, and Trump is an idiot, but the FBI did mess up here. Do you not agree with that part, or are you just saying he is stupid for the Russia thing?

I have no idea whether the FBI messed up, but assuming they did, that literally has nothing to do with the Russia investigation or Trump (unless someone turns up some compelling evidence that say the Russia investigation took all/most the staff or other essential resources from some department that handles something directly related to the prevention of the shooting), and the fact that Trump decided that a mass shooting was the best time to take pot-shots at the FBI purely for the sake of his public image is what I was talking about.

It doesn't take a PR genius to figure out that if someone has just died, shutting up about one's own personal problems for a while and consoling people who need it is the thing to do. A President should be trying to come up with a way to stop such tragedies from happening rather than acting like some amoral nobody politician who is trying to get their 15 minutes.

 

[mdram]

how low can you sink? this slow

The Democratic National Committee (DNC) is using Wednesday’s mass shooting that left 17 people dead to ask for campaign donations.

The DNC on Thursday sent out an emotional email, signed by DNC chair Tom Perez, asking supporters to sign a petition which requires giving the DNC your email address and zip code, and is automatically re-directed to a donation page asking for money.

 

[realibrad]

I have no idea whether the FBI messed up, but assuming they did, that literally has nothing to do with the Russia investigation or Trump (unless someone turns up some compelling evidence that say the Russia investigation took all/most the staff or other essential resources from some department that handles something directly related to the prevention of the shooting), and the fact that Trump decided that a mass shooting was the best time to take pot-shots at the FBI purely for the sake of his public image is what I was talking about.

It doesn't take a PR genius to figure out that if someone has just died, shutting up about one's own personal problems for a while and consoling people who need it is the thing to do. A President should be trying to come up with a way to stop such tragedies from happening rather than acting like some amoral nobody politician who is trying to get their 15 minutes.

I think its pretty clear that the FBI did mess up.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/politics/parkland-shooting-fbi-tipster/index.html

The FBI failed to act on a tip about Nikolas Cruz, the confessed shooter in the Parkland, Florida, school massacre, the bureau said in a statement on Friday.

A person close to Cruz contacted the FBI on January 5 to report concerns about him, the FBI said in a statement Friday. But the bureau did not appropriately follow established protocols in following up on the tip.

"The information was not provided to the Miami Field Office, and no further investigation was conducted at that time," the statement said.
The stunning admission -- which prompted Florida Gov. Rick Scott to call on FBI Director Christopher Wray to resign -- is sure to raise further questions about whether the FBI could have prevented the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, which left 17 dead.

As for the 2nd part, I think it even goes beyond a PR mistake. To me, a PR mistake is something that is not inherently bad, but will be perceived poorly. What Trump did was inherently bad. The rest of what you said I think I agree with.