Florida High School Shooting

[olds]

I don't disagree with that, but it's going to be a hell of a lot easier to kill 50 people with an AR 15 than with a club. How about both? That's kind of the point of the Don't walk out, walk up movement--to reach out to students that might be having issues. This isn't a zero sum game.

It just strikes me as sensationalism and news cycles and doesn't address the underlying issue. But that isn't as sexy and would take money (taxes) that no one wants to spend. So instead we'll light candles, wring our hands and hold up signs protesting an inanimate object.
We should use the same logic and outlaw crack cocaine. That way, no one could get any.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

It just strikes me as sensationalism and news cycles and doesn't address the underlying issue. But that isn't as sexy and would take money (taxes) that no one wants to spend. So instead we'll light candles, wring our hands and hold up signs protesting an inanimate object.
We should use the same logic and outlaw crack cocaine. That way, no one could get any.

If you think they are protesting the gun then you don't really understand why they are doing this to begin with.

 

[vi edit]

If these high school kids want to effectively protest, they need to start printing off fliers of every state representative that voted against gun control, put that persons picture on it and say "Your time is up." And put the date and address of the November election on it. Hand them out in mass. Protesting is cute. But votes are what matters.

 

[fskimospy]

It just strikes me as sensationalism and news cycles and doesn't address the underlying issue. But that isn't as sexy and would take money (taxes) that no one wants to spend. So instead we'll light candles, wring our hands and hold up signs protesting an inanimate object.
We should use the same logic and outlaw crack cocaine. That way, no one could get any.

Possession of lethal means is one of the primary prerequisites for killing people. To pretend it isn't is absurd.

 

[Micrornd]

I've heard that the average cop hits their target about 10% of the time in high stress situations. Assuming we can train our teachers to be just as accurate as full time police, I think the students that the teacher is trying to protect will make great backstops for the other 9 out of 10 bullets.

I don't know about now, but back in the '70s I was a consultant/instructor for our local PD (at that time a whole 37) and 10% was generous for hitting a 5 or better on the silhouettes and popups were even worse. (yes, a lot of "friendly" popups also died or more correctly were scared to death by the noise).
It was not a confidence builder.

 

[jackstar7]

What happens when they start using knives and clubs? Or cars, planes and trains? Seems the underlying issues need to be addressed.

You don't sound like a responsible gun owner.

 

[SMOGZINN]

It just strikes me as sensationalism and news cycles and doesn't address the underlying issue. But that isn't as sexy and would take money (taxes) that no one wants to spend. So instead we'll light candles, wring our hands and hold up signs protesting an inanimate object.
We should use the same logic and outlaw crack cocaine. That way, no one could get any.

Addressing the underling issue is important and will need to be part of the solution, but frankly it is a long term solution. Even deciding how to address the underling issue is going to be a task defined in years, and actually making a reasonable change in the underlying issues is a project that is going to span decades, and will likely only have an effect in future generations.

Understandably, we would also like to take some measures to limit the damage that can be done until we can do something about those underlying issues.

 

[fskimospy]

I find it interesting that both of these arguments are being made simultaneously:

1) You can't get rid of guns in America, that's impossible!
2) Instead, we should just cure mental illness.

 

[snoopy7548]

It's like if your bratty kid starts chipping away at your hardwood floors with a screwdriver. Step 1 - Take away the screwdriver, or try to fix his behavior? I think 99% of people are gonna snatch the screwdriver away first.

 

[Meghan54]

More simply though, if you know someone's going to attack a school tomorrow would you prefer them to have a club or a gun?

Even more simply, which would you prefer to face on the street.....someone wielding a baseball bat or a pistol? I'd like to think I could stand a chance of outrunning the person with the bat......the gun.....probably not so much.

 

[Sunburn74]

I find it interesting that both of these arguments are being made simultaneously:

1) You can't get rid of guns in America, that's impossible!
2) Instead, we should just cure mental illness.

Exactly. That shoddy argument is also frequently extended to the following:

Removing guns won't work but if we cure all mental illness then no more mass gun violence will occur.

 

[Younigue]

Exactly. That shoddy argument is also frequently extended to the following:

Removing guns won't work but if we cure all mental illness then no more mass gun violence will occur.

We should start with their mental illness to own high powered guns. Holy fu*king cripes, I just solved the gun problem!

 

[paperfist]

Possession of lethal means is one of the primary prerequisites for killing people. To pretend it isn't is absurd.

That's kinda of interesting, you can posses a weapon which only intent is to kill without a problem, but if you posses a drug you can go to jail.

 

[Sunburn74]

Walking down street with an AR-15 in an open carry state? Totally legal.
Walking down the street with a knife longer than a certain length in that same state? You will be stopped on sight and probably arrested.
Walking down the street with a weed brownie? Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Where do you think you're going there buddy? You can cause some serious trouble with that brownie. You better come with us.

 

[Noah Abrams]

I don't know about now, but back in the '70s I was a consultant/instructor for our local PD (at that time a whole 37) and 10% was generous for hitting a 5 or better on the silhouettes and popups were even worse. (yes, a lot of "friendly" popups also died or more correctly were scared to death by the noise).
It was not a confidence builder.

I think success for them should be defined as not shooting their own ample bellies....

 

[ch33zw1z]

That's kinda of interesting, you can posses a weapon which only intent is to kill without a problem, but if you posses a drug you can go to jail.

Sit back and find it interesting. Peoples lives are being ruined by our head-in-ass policies.

 

[paperfist]

Sit back and find it interesting. Peoples lives are being ruined by our head-in-ass policies.

I will cause there's nothing my 1 vote is going to do especially when it's cast upon the worse our country has to offer.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I will cause there's nothing my 1 vote is going to do especially when it's cast upon the worse our country has to offer.

My 1 vote, and my voice of reason to others, friends, family, my own children, is how I approach it. It's only interesting to the point of how we got here...quickly followed by the realization of how stuck in our ways we really are. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

There's quite a bit of info on drugs in general. PBS has a good documentary on prohibition. History channel has a good one call Hooked.

Politicians have been pandering to fear and hate to drive policies. If they don't, now they're call snow flakes.

 

[paperfist]

My 1 vote, and my voice of reason to others, friends, family, my own children, is how I approach it. It's only interesting to the point of how we got here...quickly followed by the realization of how stuck in our ways we really are. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

There's quite a bit of info on drugs in general. PBS has a good documentary on prohibition. History channel has a good one call Hooked.

Politicians have been pandering to fear and hate to drive policies. If they don't, now they're call snow flakes.

Your approach it admirable, but I gather limited to your sphere of influence.

I said it was interesting because I never thought along those lines of drugs and guns and the strange balance of power with regards to law.

I'm not sure what you mean driven by fear. It's really a money machine that drives everything in politics. It doesn't matter really how you vote because as soon as the lobbyists give politicians money they start singing a different tune.

And are guns really a political issue? Maybe gun makers should be more responsible and not sell weapons that assists in the rapid killing of people. Maybe they should control ammo sales.

 

[Micrornd]

Some of the rhetoric is just getting to be bordering on ridiculous, with no sensible solutions, just kneejerk reactionisms.
In a section of Orlando, FL (that has always been noted for it's unusually high crime rate), they are wanting an ordinance passed to ban gun sales "near" schools and have fixated on 1 pawn/gun shop in particular. Right now the closest a shop selling guns can be to a school is 1000yds.
The pawn/gun shop in question is 1.1 miles from a high school and "children walk by the store on their way home".
Maybe the children should be banned from walking on that street

One of the comments left on the web page of a local TV station that reported the above -
"You say kids are safer in schools then on the streets, but no one seems to realize the kids in these schools are creating 100% of all school shooters. Every single one of the school shooters so far has been a student or a recently former student of the school they attacked. Every single school shooter gave the exact same reason for their deadly attacks. It was because they were being bullied, assaulted and made the butt of every joke for their classmates amusement and the faculty did nothing. Someone needs to make these students aware that the source, cause and cure lies with them, not banning some gun, not forcibly removing some gun store, they happened to walk by, but lies solely with them and the way they treat their fellow physically handicapped and mentally ill student. They're looking for something to blame besides themselves."

So it seems that banning schools would solve the problem much quicker that banning guns.

 

[fskimospy]

Some of the rhetoric is just getting to be bordering on ridiculous, with no sensible solutions, just kneejerk reactionisms.
In a section of Orlando, FL (that has always been noted for it's unusually high crime rate), they are wanting an ordinance passed to ban gun sales "near" schools and have fixated on 1 pawn/gun shop in particular. Right now the closest a shop selling guns can be to a school is 1000yds.
The pawn/gun shop in question is 1.1 miles from a high school and "children walk by the store on their way home".
Maybe the children should be banned from walking on that street

One of the comments left on the web page of a local TV station that reported the above -
"You say kids are safer in schools then on the streets, but no one seems to realize the kids in these schools are creating 100% of all school shooters. Every single one of the school shooters so far has been a student or a recently former student of the school they attacked. Every single school shooter gave the exact same reason for their deadly attacks. It was because they were being bullied, assaulted and made the butt of every joke for their classmates amusement and the faculty did nothing. Someone needs to make these students aware that the source, cause and cure lies with them, not banning some gun, not forcibly removing some gun store, they happened to walk by, but lies solely with them and the way they treat their fellow physically handicapped and mentally ill student. They're looking for something to blame besides themselves."

So it seems that banning schools would solve the problem much quicker that banning guns.

This post has a lot of bad information in it. Every school shooter has most certainly NOT given bullying as the reason for their actions. Some have, but plenty haven’t, notably the Parkland shooter.

This is all pretty simple. A mass murder like this requires two elements, a crazy person willing to commit mass murder and the means to do so. We can’t cure mental illness but we sure can get rid of guns. Since guns serve little to no useful purpose in society outside of entertainment getting rid of them is common sense.

 

[Micrornd]

This post has a lot of bad information in it. Every school shooter has most certainly NOT given bullying as the reason for their actions. Some have, but plenty haven’t, notably the Parkland shooter.

I didn't say it was accurate, I said "One of the comments left on the web page of a local TV station that reported the above".
As to the Parkland shooter, it has been reported that he was bullied in school and that that was one of the reasons for dropping out.

We'll see if that is used by the defense when/if the trial starts.
It has also been reported that the Parkland shooter has agreed to plead "guilty" if the death penalty is taken off the table, but Gov. Scott has indicated he opposes eliminating the death penalty in this case.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Your approach it admirable, but I gather limited to your sphere of influence.

I said it was interesting because I never thought along those lines of drugs and guns and the strange balance of power with regards to law.

I'm not sure what you mean driven by fear. It's really a money machine that drives everything in politics. It doesn't matter really how you vote because as soon as the lobbyists give politicians money they start singing a different tune.

And are guns really a political issue? Maybe gun makers should be more responsible and not sell weapons that assists in the rapid killing of people. Maybe they should control ammo sales.

Of course it's limited. Just as everyone else's. The more we open discussion and uncover facts, the less taboo the topic becomes. And it does matter how you vote, vote for candidates that will push for common sense, factual drug laws, and if they dont hold to it, then let them know their time is up.

People love to judge others. And that's what politicians use to politically motivated the masses. Fear and hate is used to control people. Always has been. Fear is a basic instinct, easy to manipulate, and hate is born from fear.

Yes, money is the main motivation. Legal intoxicant pushers have much to lose if the market changes. Industrialized, corporate own prison complexes have much to lose. Big pharma, Police have much to lose....the list goes on and on.

I'm not sure why you don't think gun control is a political issue though....do you politic?

 

[fskimospy]

I didn't say it was accurate, I said "One of the comments left on the web page of a local TV station that reported the above".
As to the Parkland shooter, it has been reported that he was bullied in school and that that was one of the reasons for dropping out.

We'll see if that is used by the defense when/if the trial starts.
It has also been reported that the Parkland shooter has agreed to plead "guilty" if the death penalty is taken off the table, but Gov. Scott has indicated he opposes eliminating the death penalty in this case.

That’s fine, but there are plenty of school shootings that aren’t based on bullying such as the most famous one, Columbine.

This isn’t a question of ending bullying or curing mental illness. We just need to take the obvious step and get rid of the guns.

 

[Stokely]

If these high school kids want to effectively protest, they need to start printing off fliers of every state representative that voted against gun control, put that persons picture on it and say "Your time is up." And put the date and address of the November election on it. Hand them out in mass. Protesting is cute. But votes are what matters.

After hearing some interviews with some of the kids on NPR, it was pretty clear that this was indeed the long-term goal of many of them. "We will be old enough to vote soon" was heard several times. Part of the goal of the protests is as a "get out to vote" deal, at least with some of them. Good. We have enough old motivated voters, let's get some young motivated ones.