• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Florida High School Shooting

Page 128 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
SMOGZINN said:
I don't know about Florida but at in the State of Texas it would have to been at least a licensed Psychologist that (oversaw) the evaluation (which probably would have been done by an intern working on getting his license.)
Click to expand...

I think the problem here was that they were looking into if he was being treated and if there was neglect. They did not find neglect and they found that he was getting enough treatment with medication and therapy appointments which might have been true at the time, but stopped upon his mother's death. Had there been another wellness check I feel he would have failed and likely gotten treatment. Just sad.
 
Fanatical Meat said:
I’d think that having a documented video by a State Agency of a person cutting themselves and saying they want a gun to shoot themself or others would be enough to put that person on a no buy gun list.
Click to expand...
You would be surprised how exceedingly difficult it is to involuntarily commit someone for any length of time longer than a few days. It's not necessarily hard to institute the process, but it is somewhat difficult to have it renewed. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as it is vital to maintain individual freedom. Americans generally don't like the idea of making it easy for the "authorities" to lock you up without actually having done something.
 
TheVrolok said:
You would be surprised how exceedingly difficult it is to involuntarily commit someone for any length of time longer than a few days. It's not necessarily hard to institute the process, but it is somewhat difficult to have it renewed. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as it is vital to maintain individual freedom. Americans generally don't like the idea of making it easy for the "authorities" to lock you up without actually having done something.
Click to expand...

I’m not saying lock up, I’m saying a flag against a gun purchase. The dude literally broadcast this, no HIPPA privacy there.
 
TheVrolok said:
This is not necessarily a bad thing, as it is vital to maintain individual freedom. Americans generally don't like the idea of making it easy for the "authorities" to lock you up without actually having done something.
Click to expand...

Most of this than we like to admit has to do with economics rather than some American belief in individual rights. Insurance companies don't like to pay for mental health because it is notoriously hard to show concrete improvements in condition, and because it is all to often the correct solution is a bottomless well of treatment. The Government doesn't want to pay for it, because, well, Republicans. The individuals that need treatment are most often not able to pay for it because the conditions limit their ability to, and their conditions often keep them from seeking out treatment even when they are financially able to pay.
 
SMOGZINN said:
Most of this than we like to admit has to do with economics rather than some American belief in individual rights. Insurance companies don't like to pay for mental health because it is notoriously hard to show concrete improvements in condition, and because it is all to often the correct solution is a bottomless well of treatment. The Government doesn't want to pay for it, because, well, Republicans. The individuals that need treatment are most often not able to pay for it because the conditions limit their ability to, and their conditions often keep them from seeking out treatment even when they are financially able to pay.
Click to expand...
Absolutely true.
 
SMOGZINN said:
Most of this than we like to admit has to do with economics rather than some American belief in individual rights. Insurance companies don't like to pay for mental health because it is notoriously hard to show concrete improvements in condition, and because it is all to often the correct solution is a bottomless well of treatment. The Government doesn't want to pay for it, because, well, Republicans. The individuals that need treatment are most often not able to pay for it because the conditions limit their ability to, and their conditions often keep them from seeking out treatment even when they are financially able to pay.
Click to expand...
Anyone old enough to remember, a lot of mental patients were literally dropped off in the streets during the Reagan years.
 
jpeyton said:
In no uncertain terms, Trump kneecapped his base today: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/28/us/politics/trump-gun-control.html

Over on Reddit, r/The_Donald is in full on revolt, with bans being handed out like candy to long time members who couldn't stomach Trump going turncoat on the 2A: http://archive.is/T26lA

Oh yeah...almost forgot...somehow GUN CONTROL made it to Bentonville, Arkansas today. BOOM SHAKA LAKA.
Click to expand...
That is Wednesday Trump. Friday Trump could undo all of it just like that DACA meeting.
 
pmv said:
How long can you keep someone in, if you hospitalise (I'd say 'section') them involuntarily?
If he'd been admitted in 2016, would he not have inevitably gotten out again before now?
Perhaps I'm being pessimistic in ruling out the idea that he'd have been 'cured'.
Click to expand...
In Ma, we have two means of holding people, one is section 12 and the other section 35. From what I understood when I was dealing with it, Fl is the only other state that allows sectioning but I can't be sure, that was 3 years ago.

Section 12, a family member will usually take the person to a hospital for a mental health evaluation but anyone who deems you a credible threat, say through calling in a "wellness check" to the cops, could lead to a sectioning. I can tell you from experience, its quite easy to talk ones self out of the sectioning. You basically talk to one shrink and a whatever nurse is assigned to observe you for 24 hours. If they do keep you its for 3 nights and if they want to keep you ionger, they need to either solicit your consent or seek it through the court.

Section 35 can hold someone for 90 days but in reality because of a shortage of beds, its 30 days maximum. Mostly, you complete 32 classes regarding drug and alcohol abuse. Classes are set to 16/week so you're guaranteed at least 17 days or so depending on which gay you arrive and who your case worker is. That's important- they make it clear they aren't counselors, you have a case worker who's job it is to process you through. They will make some effort to see that you have a place to go AND that you're wanted there. No restraining orders etc. But, if you just tell them you have a place to go, you're good. If you tell them you're homeless, they arrange public transportation.

You're held in a jail although kept separate barracks. Some get out in 3 weeks, some are held for more but its more a test on whether you can follow a schedule and not get into fights. Fighting leads to the hole and more importantly missed classes that have to be made up when the class rotation comes back again so it could add way more than the 5 nights in the hole.

It still doesn't work for those who don't want help. And its used way more as a means to get addicts off the street.
 
Last edited:
I forgot, section 12 is for 3 business nights inless they seek longer through the courts.

Section 35 is done in court to start= they will pick you up, bring you in front of the judge, you see a shrink and a court appointed lawyer and you're pretty much going away haha. Its not a great system.
 
rise said:
In Ma, we have two means of holding people, one is section 12 and the other section 35. From what I understood when I was dealing with it, Fl is the only other state that allows sectioning but I can't be sure, that was 3 years ago.

Section 12, a family membet will usually take the person to a hospital for a mental health evaluation but I can tell you from experience, its quite easy to talk ones self out of the sectioning. You basically talk to one shrink and a whatever nurse is assigned to observe you. If they do keep you and they want to keep you linger, they need to either solicit your consent or seek it through the court.

Section 25 can hold someone for 90 days but in reality because of a shortage of beds, its 30 days maximum. Mostly, you complete 32 classes regarding drug and alcohol abuse. You're held in a jail although kept separate. SOme get out in 3 weeks, some are held for more but its more a test on whether you can follow a schedule and not get into fights. Fighting leads to the hole and more importantly missed classes that have to be made up when the class rotation comes back again so it could add way more than the 5 nights in the hole.

It still doesn't work for those who don't want help. And its used way more as a means to get addicts off the street.
Click to expand...

Thanks. That is kind of how I vaguely thought it worked (if 'worked' is really the right word). Does this then mean the earlier linked story about the guy (I prefer not to use his name) avoiding such sectioning in 2016 isn't really of particular significance? He could have gone in, come out again, and this would still have happened, no?
 
pmv said:
Thanks. That is kind of how I vaguely thought it worked (if 'worked' is really the right word). Does this then mean the earlier linked story about the guy (I prefer not to use his name) avoiding such sectioning in 2016 isn't really of particular significance? He could have gone in, come out again, and this would still have happened, no?
Click to expand...
in Ma, yes, definitely. In Fl, I don't know but I'm guessing they wouldn't be more liberal with info they share.
 
pmv said:
Thanks. That is kind of how I vaguely thought it worked (if 'worked' is really the right word). Does this then mean the earlier linked story about the guy (I prefer not to use his name) avoiding such sectioning in 2016 isn't really of particular significance? He could have gone in, come out again, and this would still have happened, no?
Click to expand...
Yes, absolutely.
 
The gun control debate is a true master stroke by the Democrats. I’m predicting with near 100% confidence that Trump will not finish his first term without being impeached. This is just a small glimpse from the very right leaning r/Guns Reddit:

TDGgNkS.jpg


From Trump’s typically loyal Facebook followers:

b1zxSTD.jpg
 
Last edited:
jpeyton said:
The gun control debate is a true master stroke by the Democrats. I’m predicting with near 100% confidence that Trump will not finish his first term without being impeached. This is just a small glimpse from the very right leaning r/Guns Reddit:

TDGgNkS.jpg


From Trump’s typically loyal Facebook followers:

b1zxSTD.jpg
Click to expand...

Meh it’s easy to say crap on the internet, look at all of us.
Test is when the cards are down and your choices are Trump or Biden/maybe Booker. Who are you going to vote for. Either or question there is no middle route.
 
jpeyton said:
The gun control debate is a true master stroke by the Democrats. I’m predicting with near 100% confidence that Trump will not finish his first term without being impeached. This is just a small glimpse from the very right leaning r/Guns Reddit:

TDGgNkS.jpg


From Trump’s typically loyal Facebook followers:

b1zxSTD.jpg
Click to expand...
Fortunately for Strongman Trump and the Republican party in general, reason and rationality plays absolutely no role when it comes time for the useful idiots to continue pulling the same lever in the voting booth.

Masters Limbaugh and Hannity are, as we speak, conjuring the next set of talking points and conjuring words to ensure that their useful idiots will continue providing the votes and representatives so that they can get their tax breaks.
 
nickqt said:
Fortunately for Strongman Trump and the Republican party in general, reason and rationality plays absolutely no role when it comes time for the useful idiots to continue pulling the same lever in the voting booth.

Masters Limbaugh and Hannity are, as we speak, conjuring the next set of talking points and conjuring words to ensure that their useful idiots will continue providing the votes and representatives so that they can get their tax breaks.
Click to expand...
Even a little discouragement from voting can make the difference between winning and losing. Having Trump proposing gun grabbing on live television is definitely depressing his base to some degree.
 
jpeyton said:
In no uncertain terms, Trump kneecapped his base today: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/28/us/politics/trump-gun-control.html

Over on Reddit, r/The_Donald is in full on revolt, with bans being handed out like candy to long time members who couldn't stomach Trump going turncoat on the 2A: http://archive.is/T26lA

Oh yeah...almost forgot...somehow GUN CONTROL made it to Bentonville, Arkansas today. BOOM SHAKA LAKA.
Click to expand...

Well, Trump is an equal opportunity imbecile, regardless of political affiliation. He’s setting himself to be a better salesperson for gun manufacturers than Obama (unwittingly) was. If a Democratic presidential candidate uttered these exact words, you could rest assured that at least one entire day of the Republican National Convention would be devoted to that quote.

In this administration, the President's words shouldn't be treated as meaningful statements of policy. Nobody on Capitol Hill takes anything he says seriously. This could be just Trump riffing on his rectal harmonica. Still, I imagine there were a few drops of flop sweat on some GOP foreheads.The GOP is happy to take advantage of his parroting when it suits them and equally happy to ignore it otherwise.

If I had to make a prediction...Congress will refine the Manchin-Toomey gun control proposal, removing the concealed carry reciprocity poison pill and adding an age limit and possible new assault weapons requirements.

Manchin and Toomey will make an appointment to present it to the President. They will go to the meeting only to find a couple of hard core gun advisors and NRA reps there as well. Trump will call the bill a gun-grabbing piece of shit while personally insulting Manchin and Toomey.

Then nothing more will happen..
 
jpeyton said:
Even a little discouragement from voting can make the difference between winning and losing. Having Trump proposing gun grabbing on live television is definitely depressing his base to some degree.
Click to expand...

The elections are still about 300 news cycles away. This will be forgotten by his base long before the polls open, and if it looks like it is not some conspiracy can be cooked up that is WAY more important than this to his base. Democrats are probably planning to make mandatory abortions for white Christian women. Or perhaps they are conspiring with the FBI and INS to release rapist immigrants into our neighborhoods. Someone probably has emails to prove it.
 
SMOGZINN said:
The elections are still about 300 news cycles away. This will be forgotten by his base long before the polls open, and if it looks like it is not some conspiracy can be cooked up that is WAY more important than this to his base. Democrats are probably planning to make mandatory abortions for white Christian women. Or perhaps they are conspiring with the FBI and INS to release rapist immigrants into our neighborhoods. Someone probably has emails to prove it.
Click to expand...
You're a glass half empty person. All I see are 300 more news cycles of bad news for Trump, just like the last 300 news cycles.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top